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Other Playoff Series

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Who are you pulling for in finals?

Celtics
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91%
Warriors
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9%
 
Total votes: 11

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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1261 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 1:22 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:Its disheartening that Derrick White outproduces both Cam Payne and Shamet.... hate his face, but he would have been HUGE for the Suns off the bench.

He's also more expensive than Cam and Shamet combined. We also found Cam in the scrap heap while Derrick White has been under the tutelage of Pops for almost half a decade and learning how to play basketball the right way.

He's clearly the next tier up of rotation players to both Cam and Shamet although Cam last year was pretty legit.


Cam Payne regressing back to earth is ONE huge reason Suns looked horrible the last month of the season and in the playoffs..
Last season Payne saved the Suns when CP3 was out.... Payne this season looks so ineffective and seems to have been figured out by defenses.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1262 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 1:23 am

Also Bam is getting roasted in the Game Thread.... sounds like what some Suns fans are doing or have done to Ayton.

Whats with the blaming of centers when smaller defenders are allowed to assault them trying to defend them but not vice versa.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1263 » by lilfishi22 » Mon May 30, 2022 1:23 am

thamadkant wrote:Butler has old school toughness and heart in him. He also doesnt rely on mid range shots. He will move closer the basket regardless of who is defending him to get a higher percentage look. He's tougher and take contact better than Booker who is more finesse.


sunskerr wrote:Probably strength and handles. Book gets bodied by strong defenders like Jrue Holiday, and his handle gets shaky sometimes against physicality (although this might not be a handle issue but again a strength one)


Does feel like strength/toughness is the key differentiator. He doesn't get bothered as much when getting contact and is focused on finishing rather than flopping.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1264 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 1:25 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:Butler has old school toughness and heart in him. He also doesnt rely on mid range shots. He will move closer the basket regardless of who is defending him to get a higher percentage look. He's tougher and take contact better than Booker who is more finesse.


sunskerr wrote:Probably strength and handles. Book gets bodied by strong defenders like Jrue Holiday, and his handle gets shaky sometimes against physicality (although this might not be a handle issue but again a strength one)


Does feel like strength/toughness is the key differentiator. He doesn't get bothered as much when getting contact and is focused on finishing rather than flopping.



Yup.
Butler wants to finish the play... he has poise on his drives and his finishes. Booker flops or simply lacks the poise/strength on the move.

Butler gets the referees attention though... he reminds me of MJ in that both dont have to try to sell fouls, they get contact and just happens to be strong enough to get their shot up.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1265 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 1:47 am

Butler showing heart. It really breaks my heart that All-NBA players in CP3 and Booker absolutely failed in Game 7. Just wanted to see these 2 put up a fight, understandably CP3 was likely injured but Booker had no excuse. You want your All-Stars to put up a fight in a do or die game.

Hence why I am still so shocked not so much backlash on Book/CP3, especially with their response during the post game interview. DO I really want my team's best player(s) and leaders to play with no heart?
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1266 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 1:50 am

What a comeback from Heat. But referees are absolutely influencing the game, it helps that Lowry is a good actor.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1267 » by Sunlight » Mon May 30, 2022 2:08 am

thamadkant wrote:Butler showing heart. It really breaks my heart that All-NBA players in CP3 and Booker absolutely failed in Game 7. Just wanted to see these 2 put up a fight, understandably CP3 was likely injured but Booker had no excuse. You want your All-Stars to put up a fight in a do or die game.

Hence why I am still so shocked not so much backlash on Book/CP3, especially with their response during the post game interview. DO I really want my team's best player(s) and leaders to play with no heart?


Well, James Jones lost his trust on Devin Booker in that Game 7. We would see shocking trade summer in the Valley. He is not a MAX PLAYER and JJ try to sell him as a MAX PLAYER away to bring real winners in this team. We have best GM in the NBA but this is not his own team yet. Ghost of Mcdonut is still here. But almost gone.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1268 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 2:13 am

Sunlight wrote:
thamadkant wrote:Butler showing heart. It really breaks my heart that All-NBA players in CP3 and Booker absolutely failed in Game 7. Just wanted to see these 2 put up a fight, understandably CP3 was likely injured but Booker had no excuse. You want your All-Stars to put up a fight in a do or die game.

Hence why I am still so shocked not so much backlash on Book/CP3, especially with their response during the post game interview. DO I really want my team's best player(s) and leaders to play with no heart?


Well, James Jones lost his trust on Devin Booker in that Game 7. We would see shocking trade summer in the Valley. He is not a MAX PLAYER and JJ try to sell him as a MAX PLAYER away to bring real winners in this team. We have best GM in the NBA but this is not his own team yet. Ghost of Mcdonut is still here. But almost gone.



I understand Ayton is not the Batman type, but his size, two-way contributions still warrant a off-rookie max... especially since he is projected to be a 23ppg if given 17 FGAs, which is common for a 2nd option player. I understand he is not Giannis, so I dont ever will think he is worth a Veteran Max of 40-45 Million per year (200+ Million contract).

But Booker... he is likely to command a $240 Million Contract in a couple of years... do I want Giannis, Jokic, prime Lebron money on Booker?

I absolutely dont.... but Suns will likely do it... hence why I am relinquishing my passionate-Suns fan badge. Its just going to be a forever hearbreak.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1269 » by handsome salary » Mon May 30, 2022 3:04 am

thamadkant wrote:Butler showing heart. It really breaks my heart that All-NBA players in CP3 and Booker absolutely failed in Game 7. Just wanted to see these 2 put up a fight, understandably CP3 was likely injured but Booker had no excuse. You want your All-Stars to put up a fight in a do or die game.

Hence why I am still so shocked not so much backlash on Book/CP3, especially with their response during the post game interview. DO I really want my team's best player(s) and leaders to play with no heart?

We get the off season and entire regular season next year to truly question Booker's heart and championship will. The Suns fans and local/national media. It's going to be Booker's hairshirt with every game played and interview given. Not sure how much poutier he can look or monotone he can talk but I'm sure we'll see.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1270 » by RaisingArizona » Mon May 30, 2022 7:37 am

Sunlight wrote:
thamadkant wrote:Butler showing heart. It really breaks my heart that All-NBA players in CP3 and Booker absolutely failed in Game 7. Just wanted to see these 2 put up a fight, understandably CP3 was likely injured but Booker had no excuse. You want your All-Stars to put up a fight in a do or die game.

Hence why I am still so shocked not so much backlash on Book/CP3, especially with their response during the post game interview. DO I really want my team's best player(s) and leaders to play with no heart?


Well, James Jones lost his trust on Devin Booker in that Game 7. We would see shocking trade summer in the Valley. He is not a MAX PLAYER and JJ try to sell him as a MAX PLAYER away to bring real winners in this team. We have best GM in the NBA but this is not his own team yet. Ghost of Mcdonut is still here. But almost gone.
What's going on JJ?
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1271 » by TeamTragic » Mon May 30, 2022 7:49 am

That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1272 » by sunskerr » Mon May 30, 2022 4:18 pm

The Celtics-Heat series just again showed the value of having at least two star guys who can go out and score on their own in the playoffs. Bam got frozen out HARD because he's not a guy who can isolate and get you a bucket, and the Heat were left with Jimmy who had to do EVERYTHING as Oladipo and Lowry looked extremely washed up. Tyler Herro being out might have made a difference but he was out and that is that.

Meanwhile as the set plays and fancy offenses ground to a halt with the increased physicality in the playoffs, the Celtics had Brown and Tatum who could still be threats.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1273 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm

sunskerr wrote:The Celtics-Heat series just again showed the value of having at least two star guys who can go out and score on their own in the playoffs. Bam got frozen out HARD because he's not a guy who can isolate and get you a bucket, and the Heat were left with Jimmy who had to do EVERYTHING as Oladipo and Lowry looked extremely washed up. Tyler Herro being out might have made a difference but he was out and that is that.

Meanwhile as the set plays and fancy offenses ground to a halt with the increased physicality in the playoffs, the Celtics had Brown and Tatum who could still be threats.


Great points here!

Our team though built for skill, IQ and depth, had no athleticism, energy, PHYSICALITY, TOUGHNESS, sense of urgency. We had a total of 4 players that could go get their own offense in Paul, Book, Ayton, and Holiday off the bench. All of our other players needed to have the offense set up for them. And Paul and Booker wore out and were basically cooked by the end of the regular season having to carry the offensive load for the team BECAUSE:

1-
Our bench depth and overall depth was an illusion. Most of the players were coaches ' favorites rather than players with legitimate impactful production. Our depth was lousy and we needed higher tier proven/ established impact players rather than comfort options that were brought in based upon familiarity with our coach or Paul.

2-
We didn't have any legitimate gamers with their own individual isolation abilities and high end talent. Instead we chose "nice guy" average ( oft inconsistent) players that were good for culture, but were not real gamers. They didn't have the actual athleticism, physicality, toughness to impact games in our favor to create consistency and momentum for the team. The causality of this is that we constantly had to play from behind and never truly dominated lesser teams because we constantly got outworked and outhustled! This caused our two stars to get burned out even quicker.

3-
We didn't utilize Ayton enough in our offense to sustain easy/ consistent offense in mismatches and allow our shooters to get cleaner looks and sustain a better offensive rythym. As a result, Ayton became uncomfortable in a guard centric offense that he wasn't built for. And our shooters lost their confidence and rythym from no longer having high percentage open looks. And our offense began to falter much more from the perimeter. Ayton also became less engaged and our without our defensive anchor being fully focused and engaged, our defense also became porous.

What we need to add:
High end talent, athleticism, isolation scoring and legitimate GRITTY, TOUGH, AGGRESSIVE, hungry players with high motors and a sense of urgency! Crowder is inconsistent offensively and isn't really tough ( his idea of tough is just dumb, ill timed fouls and complaining mostly). We need strong, physical players that play with aggression and can shut opposing players doesn't and make high impact defensive plays. Plays that fire a team up and foster urgency.

We need more legitimately strong isolation scorers that can generate offense once opposing teams just target our two stars (Paul/ Book) because they know that we won't actually utilize Ayton anyways in mismatches. As much as everyone doesn't like Kyrie Irving, He's a perfect option for our isolation needs, But even beyond that, he's a direct conduit to Durant for this team due to their strong/ odd connection wherein Durant really likes playing with him! Alternatively, at a much lower cost, there's legitimate good options in the draft which everyone loathes. Those players would address a definite need for our team in regards to Youth ( energy/ high motor/ hunger), high end athleticism, talent, physicality that we otherwise can't currently afford in free agency anyways. But certain areas of our roster must be remade or upgraded significantly. Because our team of finesse, unathletic, average skilled "nice guy" cast off types will continue to get crushed by the actual stronger, more physical, more athletic, more aggressive and hungry legitimate gamers in the league.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1274 » by Bogyo » Mon May 30, 2022 6:48 pm

TeamTragic wrote:That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.


:o

Jimmy is an old school mfer.
Game 6: 46 mins 47 pts 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 4 steals and a block
Game 7: 48 mins 35 points, 9 rebounds an assist and a steal
Above 50% FG
Not sure how this is all talk, especially he had knee issues as well
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1275 » by sunsbg » Mon May 30, 2022 6:54 pm

thamadkant wrote:
I understand Ayton is not the Batman type, but his size, two-way contributions still warrant a off-rookie max... especially since he is projected to be a 23ppg if given 17 FGAs, which is common for a 2nd option player. I understand he is not Giannis, so I dont ever will think he is worth a Veteran Max of 40-45 Million per year (200+ Million contract).

But Booker... he is likely to command a $240 Million Contract in a couple of years... do I want Giannis, Jokic, prime Lebron money on Booker?

I absolutely dont.... but Suns will likely do it... hence why I am relinquishing my passionate-Suns fan badge. Its just going to be a forever hearbreak.


Agreed completely. I'm more worried about Booker's next contract than DA's. If they give him a supermax they may try again the failed point-Book experiment. He's not a player who can carry a team on his back ala Doncic, that should be clear by now.

Suns' primary goal should be working on a trade to bring a quality PG as CP3 replacement as both Book and DA (if they keep him) need one. Let's not forget the team's rise started with Rubio and only DA's suspension and player injuries derailed the season.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1276 » by Saberestar » Mon May 30, 2022 9:38 pm

TeamTragic wrote:That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.

Jimmy Butler? No action???
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1277 » by bwgood77 » Mon May 30, 2022 9:47 pm

sunsbg wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
I understand Ayton is not the Batman type, but his size, two-way contributions still warrant a off-rookie max... especially since he is projected to be a 23ppg if given 17 FGAs, which is common for a 2nd option player. I understand he is not Giannis, so I dont ever will think he is worth a Veteran Max of 40-45 Million per year (200+ Million contract).

But Booker... he is likely to command a $240 Million Contract in a couple of years... do I want Giannis, Jokic, prime Lebron money on Booker?

I absolutely dont.... but Suns will likely do it... hence why I am relinquishing my passionate-Suns fan badge. Its just going to be a forever hearbreak.


Agreed completely. I'm more worried about Booker's next contract than DA's. If they give him a supermax they may try again the failed point-Book experiment. He's not a player who can carry a team on his back ala Doncic, that should be clear by now.

Suns' primary goal should be working on a trade to bring a quality PG as CP3 replacement as both Book and DA (if they keep him) need one. Let's not forget the team's rise started with Rubio and only DA's suspension and player injuries derailed the season.


Obviously it would be better to get Book for cheaper if he'd accept less to help field a competitive team. Obviously it would be better if Ayton would accept less too. But yes, Booker at that avg is worse than Ayton at his. It's rare those contracts end up being good ones. I think of the 3rd contract super maxes (35% of cap) only Giannis and Curry are probably worth it. Of the second contract ones (30% of cap), Embiid and Luka.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1278 » by thamadkant » Mon May 30, 2022 10:19 pm

TeamTragic wrote:That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.



Heat was missing Herro who is their leading scorer.... Heat ultimately lost because they lacked scoring punch.

Bucks lost to Celtics.... also ultimately due to Khris Middleton missing.


My point(s) are..
- Jimmy Butler is not All Talk... he is a dog and one Suns could use.
- Celtics are getting by with EVEN MORE LUCK than the Suns last year and NO COMPLAINTS or little coverage on how lucky they are... Suns got hammered by fans all alike... but Celtics are apparently different.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1279 » by TeamTragic » Mon May 30, 2022 10:38 pm

thamadkant wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.



Heat was missing Herro who is their leading scorer.... Heat ultimately lost because they lacked scoring punch.

Bucks lost to Celtics.... also ultimately due to Khris Middleton missing.


My point(s) are..
- Jimmy Butler is not All Talk... he is a dog and one Suns could use.
- Celtics are getting by with EVEN MORE LUCK than the Suns last year and NO COMPLAINTS or little coverage on how lucky they are... Suns got hammered by fans all alike... but Celtics are apparently different.


Celtics are a damn good team. Heat are pretenders because outside Butler they have almost no one.

As far as the SUNS I won't beat a dead horse.
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Re: Other Playoff Series 

Post#1280 » by TeamTragic » Mon May 30, 2022 10:39 pm

Saberestar wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:That Heat team is overrated and deserved to get eliminated.

Jimmy is all talk and no action.

Jimmy Butler? No action???


https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267143/Jimmy-Butler-Were-Going-To-Win-The-Next-One-Too

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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