if curry wins 4th title +FMVP

[TheLand13]

Yes but he jumped ship and changed horses. What supposedly makes a 3 peat particularly impressive is the difficulty and drain associated with consecutive deep runs. Take into account also the regular season performances and the Warriors being in the tougher conference and I don't think LeBron's matches.

LeBron beat far better teams in more dramatic fashion, and Curry wasn’t FMVP for any of those. I can’t believe you’re even trying to argue this.

I'd like to see the list of these supposedly far better teams. What does dramatic fashion have to do with anything? What that tells me is he couldn't put away games faster. What I cannot believe is the way people buy what the media has to say despite the evidence in front of everyone's faces. Those same media voices behind the FMVP selling such narratives as Lillard is better than Steph, LeBron and Davis are the two best players in the league, and the Warriors are done. You believe that hokum? I guess you do because you put any value in an FMVP. In comparison I put value in records and what records indicate is that Curry is arguably the best in history so thinking the Warriors were anywhere close to done was foolish—and guess what? here they are again in the finals.

The Spurs and 2016 Warriors are superior to all three versions of the cavaliers. Again, don’t try to pretend you don’t know about them. No one believes for a second that the warriors faced inferior finals competition.

What the hell does the media have to do with how dramatic Lebron’s finals wins are? His team was down 5 with 30 seconds left and needed a Ray Allen tying three just to get a chance to beat the Spurs. They were down 3-1 against the greatest regular season team of all time. And both, by the way, were 7 game series. That tells you that he couldn’t put away games faster? That’s one of the most idiotic arguments I’ve ever heard. No, it means he was facing teams that were actually on his level. I know that’s a concept Warriors fans aren’t used to because they’ve been gifted with having to face teams they are clearly superior to (and that’s about to happen here again), but for most teams that aren’t so lucky, usually the finals is a dog fight down to the end, even if it’s only a four game series. One sided finals series are usually pretty rare. Congrats, the warriors were able to have back to back ones.

Also, no records indicate that Curry is the greatest of all time. He doesn’t own the scoring title. He doesn’t have the most MVPs. He doesn’t have a FMVP (and yes, those are important). He has no defensive accolades. Curry wasn’t even the best player for two of his championships. So what records could you possibly be referring to? Are they on your NBA 2K profile? Because that’s the only place they could exist.

[michaelm]

LeBron beat far better teams in more dramatic fashion, and Curry wasn’t FMVP for any of those. I can’t believe you’re even trying to argue this.

I'd like to see the list of these supposedly far better teams. What does dramatic fashion have to do with anything? What that tells me is he couldn't put away games faster. What I cannot believe is the way people buy what the media has to say despite the evidence in front of everyone's faces. Those same media voices behind the FMVP selling such narratives as Lillard is better than Steph, LeBron and Davis are the two best players in the league, and the Warriors are done. You believe that hokum? I guess you do because you put any value in an FMVP. In comparison I put value in records and what records indicate is that Curry is arguably the best in history so thinking the Warriors were anywhere close to done was foolish—and guess what? here they are again in the finals.

The Spurs and 2016 Warriors are superior to all three versions of the cavaliers. Again, don’t try to pretend you don’t know about them. No one believes for a second that the warriors faced inferior finals competition.

What the hell does the media have to do with how dramatic Lebron’s finals wins are? His team was down 5 with 30 seconds left and needed a Ray Allen tying three just to get a chance to beat the Spurs. They were down 3-1 against the greatest regular season team of all time. And both, by the way, were 7 game series. That tells you that he couldn’t put away games faster? That’s one of the most idiotic arguments I’ve ever heard. No, it means he was facing teams that were actually on his level. I know that’s a concept Warriors fans aren’t used to because they’ve been gifted with having to face teams they are clearly superior to (and that’s about to happen here again), but for most teams that aren’t so lucky, usually the finals is a dog fight down to the end, even if it’s only a four game series. One sided finals series are usually pretty rare. Congrats, the warriors were able to have back to back ones.

Also, no records indicate that Curry is the greatest of all time. He doesn’t own the scoring title. He doesn’t have the most MVPs. He doesn’t have a FMVP (and yes, those are important). He has no defensive accolades. Curry wasn’t even the best player for two of his championships. So what records could you possibly be referring to? Are they on your NBA 2K profile? Because that’s the only place they could exist.

Why is being superior to the opposition gifted ?. I don't think either LeBron or Curry ever sought to be on teams less strong than they could have been, and nor should they have.

LeBron has the broader range of abilities as an individual player without doubt obviously. But if, and it is a big if, GSW win a 4th title this year their team achievements will be the same. All 4 wins by both players will be by teams built around them.

[NO-KG-AI]

So what’s Steph’s injury gonna be when he struggles to score against the Celtics? Knee? Ankle? Lets hear it now so it doesn’t manifest later.

[TheLand13]

I'd like to see the list of these supposedly far better teams. What does dramatic fashion have to do with anything? What that tells me is he couldn't put away games faster. What I cannot believe is the way people buy what the media has to say despite the evidence in front of everyone's faces. Those same media voices behind the FMVP selling such narratives as Lillard is better than Steph, LeBron and Davis are the two best players in the league, and the Warriors are done. You believe that hokum? I guess you do because you put any value in an FMVP. In comparison I put value in records and what records indicate is that Curry is arguably the best in history so thinking the Warriors were anywhere close to done was foolish—and guess what? here they are again in the finals.

The Spurs and 2016 Warriors are superior to all three versions of the cavaliers. Again, don’t try to pretend you don’t know about them. No one believes for a second that the warriors faced inferior finals competition.

What the hell does the media have to do with how dramatic Lebron’s finals wins are? His team was down 5 with 30 seconds left and needed a Ray Allen tying three just to get a chance to beat the Spurs. They were down 3-1 against the greatest regular season team of all time. And both, by the way, were 7 game series. That tells you that he couldn’t put away games faster? That’s one of the most idiotic arguments I’ve ever heard. No, it means he was facing teams that were actually on his level. I know that’s a concept Warriors fans aren’t used to because they’ve been gifted with having to face teams they are clearly superior to (and that’s about to happen here again), but for most teams that aren’t so lucky, usually the finals is a dog fight down to the end, even if it’s only a four game series. One sided finals series are usually pretty rare. Congrats, the warriors were able to have back to back ones.

Also, no records indicate that Curry is the greatest of all time. He doesn’t own the scoring title. He doesn’t have the most MVPs. He doesn’t have a FMVP (and yes, those are important). He has no defensive accolades. Curry wasn’t even the best player for two of his championships. So what records could you possibly be referring to? Are they on your NBA 2K profile? Because that’s the only place they could exist.

Why is being superior to the opposition gifted ?. I don't think either LeBron or Curry ever sought to be on teams less strong than they could have been, and nor should they have.

LeBron has the broader range of abilities as an individual player without doubt obviously. But if, and it is a big if, GSW win a 4th title this year their team achievements will be the same. All 4 wins by both players will be by teams built around them.

You’re missing the point. Curry has always had inferior finals competition. The only time you can argue that wasn’t the case was in 2015 when the opposition was too injured after game 1 for it to even matter. And it still took lineup changes just for the series to shift in golden states favor. Of course you’d prefer to be on the superior team. Not everyone can be that lucky.

And yes. Their team achievements will be the same if GS wins again this year. But in the end that isn’t what matters. We are always going to evaluate those team achievements based on the circumstances at hand and what they did to achieve them. As a finals performer, Curry hasn’t come close to matching LeBron. Maybe this year will be Curry’s best yet. But I doubt it’ll be enough to close the gap.

[NBA4Lyfe]

Still top 25

[michaelm]

The Spurs and 2016 Warriors are superior to all three versions of the cavaliers. Again, don’t try to pretend you don’t know about them. No one believes for a second that the warriors faced inferior finals competition.

What the hell does the media have to do with how dramatic Lebron’s finals wins are? His team was down 5 with 30 seconds left and needed a Ray Allen tying three just to get a chance to beat the Spurs. They were down 3-1 against the greatest regular season team of all time. And both, by the way, were 7 game series. That tells you that he couldn’t put away games faster? That’s one of the most idiotic arguments I’ve ever heard. No, it means he was facing teams that were actually on his level. I know that’s a concept Warriors fans aren’t used to because they’ve been gifted with having to face teams they are clearly superior to (and that’s about to happen here again), but for most teams that aren’t so lucky, usually the finals is a dog fight down to the end, even if it’s only a four game series. One sided finals series are usually pretty rare. Congrats, the warriors were able to have back to back ones.

Also, no records indicate that Curry is the greatest of all time. He doesn’t own the scoring title. He doesn’t have the most MVPs. He doesn’t have a FMVP (and yes, those are important). He has no defensive accolades. Curry wasn’t even the best player for two of his championships. So what records could you possibly be referring to? Are they on your NBA 2K profile? Because that’s the only place they could exist.

Why is being superior to the opposition gifted ?. I don't think either LeBron or Curry ever sought to be on teams less strong than they could have been, and nor should they have.

LeBron has the broader range of abilities as an individual player without doubt obviously. But if, and it is a big if, GSW win a 4th title this year their team achievements will be the same. All 4 wins by both players will be by teams built around them.

You’re missing the point. Curry has always had inferior finals competition. The only time you can argue that wasn’t the case was in 2015 when the opposition was too injured after game 1 for it to even matter. And it still took lineup changes just for the series to shift in golden states favor. Of course you’d prefer to be on the superior team. Not everyone can be that lucky.

And yes. Their team achievements will be the same if GS wins again this year. But in the end that isn’t what matters. We are always going to evaluate those team achievements based on the circumstances at hand and what they did to achieve them. As a finals performer, Curry hasn’t come close to matching LeBron. Maybe this year will be Curry’s best yet. But I doubt it’ll be enough to close the gap.

And you are missing my points which are that it isn't luck if a team built around Curry is superior, that if Curry has ended up on "stacked" teams as you put it that this is significantly related to Curry, and that it has hardly been through lack of effort on Lebron's part that his teams since 2010 have been less stacked than Curry's, but largely a consequence of choices he has made and perhaps also his ball dominant playing style. You seem to be implying that Curry/GSW were lucky to avoid playing themselves in 2016 btw, and a nascent GSW team still coached by Mark Jackson with Green a bench SF considered too mediocre as a shooter to ever be a starting SF ran the Spurs team to which you refer very close when they met in the Western Conference play-offs, a team which beat the Heat very soundly playing beautiful team basketball the following season, admittedly with the addition of Kawhi Leonard but a rookie Kawhi who had not shown himself to be highly elite before the play-offs, and with the rest of their core a year closer to being on their last legs.

[bstein14]

If Durant never joined the GSW, and Curry was about to win his 4th championship and 3rd Finals MVP, he's be within knocking distance of LeBron and have a chance at top 5 all time. But Durant derailed Curry's all-time ranking and chance at being a top 10 player all-time by coming in and being the guy for those two championships.

For me Curry isn't going to be top 10 now unless he ends up with more championships than Kobe or Duncan.... If he only gets 5 he's still behind Duncan and Kobe.

[TheLand13]

Why is being superior to the opposition gifted ?. I don't think either LeBron or Curry ever sought to be on teams less strong than they could have been, and nor should they have.

LeBron has the broader range of abilities as an individual player without doubt obviously. But if, and it is a big if, GSW win a 4th title this year their team achievements will be the same. All 4 wins by both players will be by teams built around them.

You’re missing the point. Curry has always had inferior finals competition. The only time you can argue that wasn’t the case was in 2015 when the opposition was too injured after game 1 for it to even matter. And it still took lineup changes just for the series to shift in golden states favor. Of course you’d prefer to be on the superior team. Not everyone can be that lucky.

And yes. Their team achievements will be the same if GS wins again this year. But in the end that isn’t what matters. We are always going to evaluate those team achievements based on the circumstances at hand and what they did to achieve them. As a finals performer, Curry hasn’t come close to matching LeBron. Maybe this year will be Curry’s best yet. But I doubt it’ll be enough to close the gap.

And you are missing my points which are that it isn't luck if a team built around Curry is superior, that if Curry has ended up on "stacked" teams as you put it that this is significantly related to Curry, and that it has hardly been through lack of effort on Lebron's part that his teams since 2010 have been less stacked than Curry's, but largely a consequence of choices he has made and perhaps also his ball dominant playing style. You seem to be implying that Curry/GSW were lucky to avoid playing themselves in 2016 btw, and a nascent GSW team still coached by Mark Jackson with Green a bench SF considered too mediocre as a shooter to ever be a starting SF ran the Spurs team to which you refer very close when they met in the Western Conference play-offs, a team which beat the Heat very soundly playing beautiful team basketball the following season, admittedly with the addition of Kawhi Leonard but a rookie Kawhi who had not shown himself to be highly elite before the play-offs, and with the rest of their core a year closer to being on their last legs.

Dude.

The 2015 cavaliers, the only team you could argue was superior to the warriors, ultimately couldn’t win due to injuries. And in the other two instances where golden state won, they were able to secure Kevin Durant due to the cap spike occurring at the exact time that he was a free agent.

Don’t tell me what happened with curry wasn’t luck.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

So what’s Steph’s injury gonna be when he struggles to score against the Celtics? Knee? Ankle? Lets hear it now so it doesn’t manifest later.

What's your excuse when/if the celtics lose? Let's hear it now.

[WarriorGM]

You’re missing the point. Curry has always had inferior finals competition. The only time you can argue that wasn’t the case was in 2015 when the opposition was too injured after game 1 for it to even matter. And it still took lineup changes just for the series to shift in golden states favor. Of course you’d prefer to be on the superior team. Not everyone can be that lucky.

And yes. Their team achievements will be the same if GS wins again this year. But in the end that isn’t what matters. We are always going to evaluate those team achievements based on the circumstances at hand and what they did to achieve them. As a finals performer, Curry hasn’t come close to matching LeBron. Maybe this year will be Curry’s best yet. But I doubt it’ll be enough to close the gap.

And you are missing my points which are that it isn't luck if a team built around Curry is superior, that if Curry has ended up on "stacked" teams as you put it that this is significantly related to Curry, and that it has hardly been through lack of effort on Lebron's part that his teams since 2010 have been less stacked than Curry's, but largely a consequence of choices he has made and perhaps also his ball dominant playing style. You seem to be implying that Curry/GSW were lucky to avoid playing themselves in 2016 btw, and a nascent GSW team still coached by Mark Jackson with Green a bench SF considered too mediocre as a shooter to ever be a starting SF ran the Spurs team to which you refer very close when they met in the Western Conference play-offs, a team which beat the Heat very soundly playing beautiful team basketball the following season, admittedly with the addition of Kawhi Leonard but a rookie Kawhi who had not shown himself to be highly elite before the play-offs, and with the rest of their core a year closer to being on their last legs.

Dude.

The 2015 cavaliers, the only team you could argue was superior to the warriors, ultimately couldn’t win due to injuries. And in the other two instances where golden state won, they were able to secure Kevin Durant due to the cap spike occurring at the exact time that he was a free agent.

Don’t tell me what happened with curry wasn’t luck.

6 finals in 8 years is luck. Going from rebuilding mode to a finals appearance twice is luck. Setting records left and right is luck. It all happening in the tougher conference full of the majority of the league's best players is luck. Making the finals against two different generations of stars is luck.

Uh huh.

The truth is Curry has one of the most bulletproof resumes out there. It is easier to poke more holes through the resumes of the other greats than it is Curry's.

[NO-KG-AI]

So what’s Steph’s injury gonna be when he struggles to score against the Celtics? Knee? Ankle? Lets hear it now so it doesn’t manifest later.

What's your excuse when/if the celtics lose? Let's hear it now.

No, I think the Warriors are going to win, even if Steph struggles. I just think the hoard will run in here to be like "wow, steph's not right, he's obviously injured" when he misses a shot.

[WarriorGM]

So what’s Steph’s injury gonna be when he struggles to score against the Celtics? Knee? Ankle? Lets hear it now so it doesn’t manifest later.

Ankle injury of course. Didn't you see it being prepped already in the last game of the Mavericks' series?

[TheLand13]

6 finals in 8 years is luck. Going from rebuilding mode to a finals appearance twice is luck. Setting records left and right is luck. It all happening in the tougher conference full of the majority of the league's best players is luck. Making the finals against two different generations of stars is luck.

Uh huh.

What the hell does any of that have to do with what we're talking about?

The truth is Curry has one of the most bulletproof resumes out there. It is easier to poke more holes through the resumes of the other greats than it is Curry's.

Curry has no defensive accolades, no FMVP awards, and for the majority of his career he wasn't even the best playmaker on his own team. I've got all the respect in the world for Steph Curry and what he's been able to accomplish in his career. You trying to act like he has an all time great resume is a laughable statement to make. You need to take the Warriors glasses off and come to terms with reality.

[WarriorGM]

Dude.

The 2015 cavaliers, the only team you could argue was superior to the warriors, ultimately couldn’t win due to injuries. And in the other two instances where golden state won, they were able to secure Kevin Durant due to the cap spike occurring at the exact time that he was a free agent.

Don’t tell me what happened with curry wasn’t luck.

6 finals in 8 years is luck. Going from rebuilding mode to a finals appearance twice is luck. Setting records left and right is luck. It all happening in the tougher conference full of the majority of the league's best players is luck. Making the finals against two different generations of stars is luck.

Uh huh.

What the hell does any of that have to do with what we're talking about?

You're the one suggesting Curry's success is due to luck. No, it's not due to luck.

The truth is Curry has one of the most bulletproof resumes out there. It is easier to poke more holes through the resumes of the other greats than it is Curry's.

Curry has no defensive accolades, no FMVP awards, and for the majority of his career he wasn't even the best playmaker on his own team. I've got all the respect in the world for Steph Curry and what he's been able to accomplish in his career. You trying to act like he has an all time great resume is a laughable statement to make. You need to take the Warriors glasses off and come to terms with reality.

Curry has no defensive accolades? Why don't they give out off-ball accolades? FMVP awards? Does the opinion of 11 people under the thrall of network broadcasting prerogatives in charge of handing out a bought and paid for award outweigh records? Do we trust such entities when they cannot even educate viewers such as yourself that not only is Curry the best playmaker on his team he is probably the best playmaker of all-time?

These accolades the media hands out are arbitrary constructs that don't have any proven association with winning. They're there for promotional purposes. "See this up and coming player we want you to watch and buy merchandise about? Well he hasn't won anything yet so here we're going to give him an award so it looks like he's done something!"

What I find laughable is to suggest that the player that led the teams with the best regular season of all-time and the best playoffs record of all-time and who probably had the most impressive 5 consecutive seasons in NBA history doesn't have an all-time great résumé.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Mans are acting like curry's career is for all intents and purpose over, like lebron's. This mans is just getting geared up for another championship run. This time with finals MVP accolades and bonafides. There will be dip with his chips, I say.

Those with lebron avatars implying he is the greatest have something to worry about IMHO. It is time to rightfully identify and pay respects to the new GOAT, the greatest shooter and championship winner of the modern era.

[TheLand13]

You're the one suggesting Curry's success is due to luck. No, it's not due to luck.

His title wins? Yes, I am suggesting they are in fact due to luck. The Warriors continuing to be juggernauts after the disappointing end to the 2016 season? Yes. Everything else? No.

Curry has no defensive accolades? Why don't they give out off-ball accolades? FMVP awards? Does the opinion of 11 people under the thrall of network broadcasting prerogatives in charge of handing out a bought and paid for award outweigh records? Do we trust such entities when they cannot even educate viewers such as yourself that not only is Curry the best playmaker on his team he is probably the best playmaker of all-time?

You're going to have to do better than this. Trying to downplay the importance of defensive accolades and FMVP awards implies you're trying very hard to act like you aren't bothered by the fact that Curry doesn't have any. They absolutely matter, because here's the thing: most people agree with those decisions. Curry is not a great defender and never has been. He wasn't the best player for any of his three finals wins. Stuff like this matters when determining where Curry belongs on the all time rankings.

These accolades the media hands out are arbitrary constructs that don't have any proven association with winning. They're there for promotional purposes. "See this up and coming player we want you to watch and buy merchandise about? Well he hasn't won anything yet so here we're going to give him an award so it looks like he's done something!"

This is some laughable drivel I'm seeing here. That's never been how any of these awards work. And what's worse is that you just got done pointing out Curry's unanimous MVP selection of proof of his all time status but now you're diminishing other awards because he didn't win them. That's not how that works. Either the awards matter or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

What I find laughable is to suggest that the player that led the teams with the best regular season of all-time and the best playoffs record of all-time and who probably had the most impressive 5 consecutive seasons in NBA history doesn't have an all-time great résumé.

The best regular season of all time doesn't mean anything without a championship. And guess what? Curry didn't win a championship that season, so pointing this out is meaningless. Best playoffs record? You can thank Durant for that. Impressive five consecutive seasons? Again, Durant. This is where the whole luck thing comes back into play. And you still have yet explain how these factors aren't due to luck.

Also, Curry doesn't have an all time great resume. If he does, feel free to list his resume and I'll have no problem listing out significantly better ones.

[SaveTheHens]

he will surpass lebron in both legacy and brand, imo. Curry has dominated the modern era of basketball with one team, didnt hop around from team to team like a chicken and was the reason golden state became a juggernaut...2x uninaminous mvp and broke rays record. If it was lebron on golden state when they struggled for 2 years, lebron would have "took his talents elsewhere ect.." by now... only knock left on curry is that he doesnt have an FMVP yet... he has a magic johnson MVP wcf award but he needs the finals FMVP too...

I agree with your sentiment in that I believe Steph has a bigger impact on basketball than Lebron has. Steph is the quintissential 'not supposed to be here', kind of guy. The NBA was/is an ugly ref-biased league sometimes, and guys like Lebron get a lot of help in that regard, no ref was trying to help Steph but his playstyle was so dominant that he rose to the top without any traditional superstars and with a selfless, team-oriented approach while showing up huge time and time again.

While I personally agree, society won't see that 'truth'. They're too wrapped up in Lebron's longevity and the storylines fed to us. For Steph to really surpass Lebron he'd need to win 3 out of 4 championships in the next 4 years and win FMVP every time. "Only" winning back to back finals MVP would push the needle in the conversation where people will start to consider the argument, but realistically he needs 3 FMVP and 6 total rings for people to start giving him his props being at least on the level of Lebron if not past it. Honestly though I think we all forget how dominant this team was in their heyday and now with their key cogs back healthy they may make another couple finals runs in the next few years imo, I mean if they do then it'll speak to Stephs greatness on its own, if they don't then maybe he's just not on that same level.

[Woodsanity]

6 finals in 8 years is luck. Going from rebuilding mode to a finals appearance twice is luck. Setting records left and right is luck. It all happening in the tougher conference full of the majority of the league's best players is luck. Making the finals against two different generations of stars is luck.

Uh huh.

What the hell does any of that have to do with what we're talking about?

You're the one suggesting Curry's success is due to luck. No, it's not due to luck.

The truth is Curry has one of the most bulletproof resumes out there. It is easier to poke more holes through the resumes of the other greats than it is Curry's.

Curry has no defensive accolades, no FMVP awards, and for the majority of his career he wasn't even the best playmaker on his own team. I've got all the respect in the world for Steph Curry and what he's been able to accomplish in his career. You trying to act like he has an all time great resume is a laughable statement to make. You need to take the Warriors glasses off and come to terms with reality.

Curry has no defensive accolades? Why don't they give out off-ball accolades? FMVP awards? Does the opinion of 11 people under the thrall of network broadcasting prerogatives in charge of handing out a bought and paid for award outweigh records? Do we trust such entities when they cannot even educate viewers such as yourself that not only is Curry the best playmaker on his team he is probably the best playmaker of all-time?

These accolades the media hands out are arbitrary constructs that don't have any proven association with winning. They're there for promotional purposes. "See this up and coming player we want you to watch and buy merchandise about? Well he hasn't won anything yet so here we're going to give him an award so it looks like he's done something!"

What I find laughable is to suggest that the player that led the teams with the best regular season of all-time and the best playoffs record of all-time and who probably had the most impressive 5 consecutive seasons in NBA history doesn't have an all-time great résumé.

[GeorgeSears]

It's the one thing missing from his resume. The more interesting conversation is what happens if Curry wins his 4th title but doesn't win Finals MVP?

That would be 6 Finals appearances, 4 wins, and no FMVPs.

[Jfh20]

So what’s Steph’s injury gonna be when he struggles to score against the Celtics? Knee? Ankle? Lets hear it now so it doesn’t manifest later.

whats lebron excuse for losing 6 finals??? did he need more help? was he just inexperienced? was his opponent just too good? was it his cramps? was it his coach??