What will it take for you to take Curry over LeBron all-time?

[JujitsuFlip]

What a ridiculous article.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/stephen-curry-leading-the-warriors-to-another-nba-title-could-stir-up-a-new-round-of-goat-debates/

Another title, and the all-time great debate looks something like this:

1. Jordan

2. LeBron

3. Kareem

4. Shaq

5. Steph

Can Steph eventually pass LeBron? Maybe, but unlikely.

But beat the Celtics, and he will have launched himself further than any one of his patented deep shots.

I think it's difficult to take guys like Bill Reiter seriously because he covers sports like the NBA, the NFL, the MLB, UFC, the Olympics, Super Bowls, and March Madness. The guy has to know about so many different sports, it's difficult for him to know a lot about any single one, regardless if he labels himself as an NBA insider.

[WarriorGM]

Curry is a more efficient player than Jordan also. I guess he’s the GOAT? Didn’t realize it was that simple

A chart like this one shows that they do dominate a certain statistical quadrant:



(Note this chart was created in the middle of the 2019 season. Curry's 2019 performance fell back a bit from the placement on the chart.)

Hey my chart Good to see it being put to use!

So it was your chart and not just one you found out there on the internet? Great!

Would you have an updated one? I know Harden's 2019 is a bit of an outlier also that would appear on the far right but I don't know where Giannis's or Jokic's recent seasons as well as Curry's would show up.

[WarriorGM]

This is a next level dumb **** take if I've ever seen one. At this point your intention is becoming way too obvious to the point of desperation. Again, you are better off admitting you are just too biased to admit LeBron>Curry, but don't want to and it's resulting in this. Just stop posting. You're only making things worse for yourself.

You should just admit Curry is better.

You have yet to even give one reason for me to think Curry is better. In fact if anything, your lack of legitimate reasons for Curry being better has made me think the gap between the two is bigger than it actually is. I don't understand how you can be so bad at this.

And I don't get how so many of you can be so blind.

Read on Twitter

[Images using data from 2019, 2018]

[dhsilv2]

A chart like this one shows that they do dominate a certain statistical quadrant:



(Note this chart was created in the middle of the 2019 season. Curry's 2019 performance fell back a bit from the placement on the chart.)

Hey my chart Good to see it being put to use!

So it was your chart and not just one you found out there on the internet? Great!

Would you have an updated one? I know Harden's 2019 is a bit of an outlier also that would appear on the far right but I don't know where Giannis's or Jokic's recent seasons as well as Curry's would show up.

I need to build a new database since basketball reference changed their BPM/VORP calculation at some point, but yeah I can update that and post it up. And I can do one for just the last few seasons. But yes this was my work fully. That's why MJ's 1990 and 1991 labels overlap....cause it was amateur hour with me just doing it for funs lol. Lets not let any of my analysts at work see this...they'll go off on me with how I nitpick their charts lol.

Looking back - I actually had to create and calculate TS%+ before that was a metric on basketball reference and built it into the table for the full history of the league to do that. I'd forgotten I did that, but eye balling it, I think it matches up pretty well on Curry vs basketball reference.

[TheLand13]

You should just admit Curry is better.

You have yet to even give one reason for me to think Curry is better. In fact if anything, your lack of legitimate reasons for Curry being better has made me think the gap between the two is bigger than it actually is. I don't understand how you can be so bad at this.

And I don't get how so many of you can be so blind.

Read on Twitter

[Images using data from 2019, 2018]

Okay, great! Now explain how any of that makes Curry better than the guy who is still a better playmaker, defender, has more accolades, and more success overall? I can just show you his defensive impact in his prime alone and that would kill your argument.

[ken6199]

Another can of worm has just been opened. Forget Curry for a second, plenty to talk about Tatum.
Where does Tatum rank if the Celtics win the chip & he gets Finals MVP ?

GS wins and Curry gets FMVP
GS wins and Curry no FMVP
BOS wins and Tatum gets FMVP
BOS wins and Tatum no FMVP

Fascinating to think about and plenty to rank with. So many narratives can be had without the game being played.

[lilfishi22]

Lebron is at worst a top 5 guy all time but more likely a top 3. I think Steph is at best top 10 but more likely just outside of that.

[WarriorGM]

You have yet to even give one reason for me to think Curry is better. In fact if anything, your lack of legitimate reasons for Curry being better has made me think the gap between the two is bigger than it actually is. I don't understand how you can be so bad at this.

And I don't get how so many of you can be so blind.

Read on Twitter

[Images using data from 2019, 2018]

Okay, great! Now explain how any of that makes Curry better than the guy who is still a better playmaker, defender, has more accolades, and more success overall? I can just show you his defensive impact in his prime alone and that would kill your argument.

Another guy is a better playmaker? Where is the evidence? Another guy is a better defender? Why does that not translate to team defense? Has more accolades? Accolades determined off the court instead of on it? More success? What success? Movie deals? Steph's made more money for the franchise that drafted him and his team is watched more than any other. The other guy's defensive impact in his prime alone lead to any records? Steph's impact has.

[TheLand13]

And I don't get how so many of you can be so blind.

Read on Twitter

[Images using data from 2019, 2018]

Okay, great! Now explain how any of that makes Curry better than the guy who is still a better playmaker, defender, has more accolades, and more success overall? I can just show you his defensive impact in his prime alone and that would kill your argument.

Another guy is a better playmaker? Where is the evidence? Another guy is a better defender? Why does that not translate to team defense? Has more accolades? Accolades determined off the court instead of on it? More success? What success? Movie deals? Steph's made more money for the franchise that drafted him and his team is watched more than any other. The other guy's defensive impact in his prime alone lead to any records? Steph's impact has.

Evidence in what regard? Milestones? LeBron is going to retire with more assists per game than Curry and in total, and has an assists title on top of that (something Curry never came close to doing). He’s a better passer and it’s not close. He’s better at finding open teammates and getting others involved. Again, not close. He’s better at reading a teams defense to set up plays ahead of time. Again, not close. The one area of playmaking that Curry has over LeBron is off the ball play. And while that gap is also very big, it’s not enough to make up the difference. You asking me for the evidence also reeks of desperation on your part. You yourself have not provided evidence yet, and in fact haven’t presented a single valid argument for your claim. At some point you need to step up.

What do you mean why does that not translate to team defense? Do you not know anything about LeBron James as a player? He’s the perfect example of someone whose defense translated to team defense. The 2009 Cavaliers weren’t even in the top 15 defensively when he was off the floor. But when he was on the floor? They were a top three defensive team. LeBron in his prime was arguably the best off ball defender in the NBA. He was also one of the best at directing players to spots that they needed to be at to help keep the defense operating smoothly. LeBron made defenses elite. Curry on the other hand benefited from being part of one.

No. Accolades determined ON the court, because those awards are based on what happens on the court. Season and finals awards are not the end all be all, but your argument regarding why they should be disregarded is straight up idiotic, and pretty much every NBA player would disagree with you on it.

Are you being purposely clueless in the success part? LeBron has won more championships than Curry. On that aspect alone he’s more successful. He’s made a LOT more money in his career than Curry. His brand is bigger than Curry’s. He’s broken more records than him. What more do you need? And Curry made more money for his franchise? Um, no he didn’t. I strongly recommend you do some research on the economic impact LeBron had on the Cleveland Cavaliers.


What defensive impact from Curry led to any records? What was the record? Please, do enlighten me. I can’t wait to hear this one.

[WarriorGM]

Okay, great! Now explain how any of that makes Curry better than the guy who is still a better playmaker, defender, has more accolades, and more success overall? I can just show you his defensive impact in his prime alone and that would kill your argument.

Another guy is a better playmaker? Where is the evidence? Another guy is a better defender? Why does that not translate to team defense? Has more accolades? Accolades determined off the court instead of on it? More success? What success? Movie deals? Steph's made more money for the franchise that drafted him and his team is watched more than any other. The other guy's defensive impact in his prime alone lead to any records? Steph's impact has.

Evidence in what regard? Milestones? LeBron is going to retire with more assists per game than Curry and in total, and has an assists title on top of that (something Curry never came close to doing). He’s a better passer and it’s not close. He’s better at finding open teammates and getting others involved. Again, not close. He’s better at reading a teams defense to set up plays ahead of time. Again, not close. The one area of playmaking that Curry has over LeBron is off the ball play. And while that gap is also very big, it’s not enough to make up the difference. You asking me for the evidence also reeks of desperation on your part. You yourself have not provided evidence yet, and in fact haven’t presented a single valid argument for your claim. At some point you need to step up.

What do you mean why does that not translate to team defense? Do you not know anything about LeBron James as a player? He’s the perfect example of someone whose defense translated to team defense. The 2009 Cavaliers weren’t even in the top 15 defensively when he was off the floor. But when he was on the floor? They were a top three defensive team. LeBron in his prime was arguably the best off ball defender in the NBA. He was also one of the best at directing players to spots that they needed to be at to help keep the defense operating smoothly. LeBron made defenses elite. Curry on the other hand benefited from being part of one.

No. Accolades determined ON the court, because those awards are based on what happens on the court. Season and finals awards are not the end all be all, but your argument regarding why they should be disregarded is straight up idiotic, and pretty much every NBA player would disagree with you on it.

Are you being purposely clueless in the success part? LeBron has won more championships than Curry. On that aspect alone he’s more successful. He’s made a LOT more money in his career than Curry. His brand is bigger than Curry’s. He’s broken more records than him. What more do you need? And Curry made more money for his franchise? Um, no he didn’t. I strongly recommend you do some research on the economic impact LeBron had on the Cleveland Cavaliers.


What defensive impact from Curry led to any records? What was the record? Please, do enlighten me. I can’t wait to hear this one.

Assists? What is an assist and what isn't? A subjective measure determined by scorekeepers. Is it closely associated with winning? Tenuous link to be extremely generous. The record holder is Stockton and I cannot recall him ever being thought of as the best player or even one who could carry a team. On the other hand you see Curry on the regular being doubled passing it to Draymond who then passes it to a cutter who scores. Does Curry get an assist? No. But he's the one who caused the defensive breakdown despite no credit appearing on the box score. Or how about the extra spacing that Curry provides his teammates that results in higher TS% for his teammates when he is on the floor as shown in the previously provided graphic above? Does that show up in the box score? Again no but Curry is playmaking in those instances. Curry creates plays on higher level than virtually any other player before him. It doesn't show up in the assists column but it does show up in the wins column.

Media accolades supposedly are based on what happens on the court but they are subject to the media's biases, agendas, and plain ignorance. In 2013 David Lee was chosen as the Warriors' sole all-star representative. That kind of tells you everything you need to know about the media's blind spots. But why rely on a second hand narrative source when you can access the first hand results from the original source the games themselves? Curry could have been chosen for any number of awards numerous times and be perfectly deserving of them. Curry even among his critics if you listen to them whine about how he supposedly doesn't bring it in the post season has a strong argument for possibly being the greatest regular season player ever. It is odd then that he only has two regular season MVPs same as Jokic who has not come anywhere close to dominating the league the way Curry has. If there is an active bias working against Curry in these media awards then Curry is very much better than what they say.

As stated previously Curry has been on more top defensive teams according to defensive rating than LeBron. If LeBron is such a strong defender and Curry such a weak one, one would expect the reverse but that is not the case. If it does not translate to the team level then what's the point?

Don't know much about LeBron's financial exploits except he is a billionaire or thereabouts. I've also heard about the shot in the arm to Cleveland's economy LeBron brought. That said when talking about the most lucrative franchises in the NBA it is the Warriors who are second and who have seen their value rise by multiple billions from the time Curry joined the team. Even after a season where they finished last it was the Warriors who were in half of the top ten most viewed games in the league. It is the Warriors who are the most popular NBA franchise globally.

I was referring to Steph's overall impact not just defensive impact but it was enough to contribute to a number one rated defense for a team with a 67-win season ending with a championship. A better record than any of LeBron's.

[Clutch0z24]

Curry is 34 so realistically he has no shot of catching LeBron or even a top 10 spot i could see him in that 11-12 range when its all said and done....He would have to do a 3peat while being the best player in the NBA for the next 2 seasons if he wins this title to crack into that top 5-8 Range which is unlikely

[metalinguss]

It would take:

[LukaTheGOAT]

Kaj has 6 MVPs and titles most pts scored yet most ppl here put LeBron over him while claiming LeBron over curry bc of awards and counting stats. Provide more or it's a bit hypocritical

If we just doing that,
If curry 3 peats starting this finals and gets 2 MVP 3 fmvp he would be clearly ahead for me and near Jordan. It's all on one team too.
2 titles 1mvp 2fmvp gets him in the top 5 for me and debatable with LeBron

Awards and counting stats are not the only reason people are putting LeBron over Curry.

You can theoretically argue that LeBron has always been better on both ends of the floor. While obviously Curry is the better scorer and shooter, LeBron has always been by far the better playmaker and in his prime was almost just as big of a problem to guard. Even if you put Curry over LeBron offensively though, defensively the gap is so massive that it's not even up for debate. I've been spending most of this thread explaining why LeBron is superior without even having to bring up the amount of accolades LeBron has, because the simple fact of the matter is, there's more to determining someone's greatness than just the awards they won.

Case and point: The KAJ vs LeBron debate.

I've gone on record stating that an argument still exists for KAJ>LeBron. And LeBron would need to have another 2020-like run for it to, in my opinion, no longer be arguable. Speaking of which, I myself was on that boat even when I was a LeBron stan. LeBron's 2020 run changed that for me. KAJ at that point in his career wasn't anything near the level of greatness we witnessed from LeBron that year. And the simple fact of the matter is, I don't think we will see another person be that great that late into their career for a very long time. It's a very difficult thing to accomplish.

I've also acknowledged that an argument exists for LeBron>Jordan as well. But truth be told, I'm not in that club and I probably never will be. I think one thing we can all agree with is this: there is no argument at all for Curry>LeBron and I think it's pretty hilarious that there's a person on this board who actually exists that put in the time and effort to try to debate it (and do a terrible job of it might I add).

I don't think it is a forgone conclusion Steph is a better scorer:

Let's take a look at the PS, looking at some 3-year scoring peaks from some guys you mentioned, (adjusted to a 110 league average).
Lebron (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 32 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.6%)

Lebron (16-18)-Inflation Adjusted 30.6 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.9%)

Lebron (17-20)-Inflation Adjusted 30.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

Lebron (12-14)-Inflation Adjusted 30.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9%)

Lebron (14-16)-Inflation Adjusted 30.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.9%)

Lebron (13-15)-Inflation Adjusted 29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)

Lebron (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)


Curry's Best Run

Curry (15-17)-Inflation Adjusted 28.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.6%)

[TheLand13]

Another guy is a better playmaker? Where is the evidence? Another guy is a better defender? Why does that not translate to team defense? Has more accolades? Accolades determined off the court instead of on it? More success? What success? Movie deals? Steph's made more money for the franchise that drafted him and his team is watched more than any other. The other guy's defensive impact in his prime alone lead to any records? Steph's impact has.

Evidence in what regard? Milestones? LeBron is going to retire with more assists per game than Curry and in total, and has an assists title on top of that (something Curry never came close to doing). He’s a better passer and it’s not close. He’s better at finding open teammates and getting others involved. Again, not close. He’s better at reading a teams defense to set up plays ahead of time. Again, not close. The one area of playmaking that Curry has over LeBron is off the ball play. And while that gap is also very big, it’s not enough to make up the difference. You asking me for the evidence also reeks of desperation on your part. You yourself have not provided evidence yet, and in fact haven’t presented a single valid argument for your claim. At some point you need to step up.

What do you mean why does that not translate to team defense? Do you not know anything about LeBron James as a player? He’s the perfect example of someone whose defense translated to team defense. The 2009 Cavaliers weren’t even in the top 15 defensively when he was off the floor. But when he was on the floor? They were a top three defensive team. LeBron in his prime was arguably the best off ball defender in the NBA. He was also one of the best at directing players to spots that they needed to be at to help keep the defense operating smoothly. LeBron made defenses elite. Curry on the other hand benefited from being part of one.

No. Accolades determined ON the court, because those awards are based on what happens on the court. Season and finals awards are not the end all be all, but your argument regarding why they should be disregarded is straight up idiotic, and pretty much every NBA player would disagree with you on it.

Are you being purposely clueless in the success part? LeBron has won more championships than Curry. On that aspect alone he’s more successful. He’s made a LOT more money in his career than Curry. His brand is bigger than Curry’s. He’s broken more records than him. What more do you need? And Curry made more money for his franchise? Um, no he didn’t. I strongly recommend you do some research on the economic impact LeBron had on the Cleveland Cavaliers.


What defensive impact from Curry led to any records? What was the record? Please, do enlighten me. I can’t wait to hear this one.

Assists? What is an assist and what isn't? A subjective measure determined by scorekeepers. Is it closely associated with winning? Tenuous link to be extremely generous. The record holder is Stockton and I cannot recall him ever being thought of as the best player or even one who could carry a team. On the other hand you see Curry on the regular being doubled passing it to Draymond who then passes it to a cutter who scores. Does Curry get an assist? No. But he's the one who caused the defensive breakdown despite no credit appearing on the box score. Or how about the extra spacing that Curry provides his teammates that results in higher TS% for his teammates when he is on the floor as shown in the previously provided graphic above? Does that show up in the box score? Again no but Curry is playmaking in those instances. Curry creates plays on higher level than virtually any other player before him. It doesn't show up in the assists column but it does show up in the wins column.

Media accolades supposedly are based on what happens on the court but they are subject to the media's biases, agendas, and plain ignorance. In 2013 David Lee was chosen as the Warriors' sole all-star representative. That kind of tells you everything you need to know about the media's blind spots. But why rely on a second hand narrative source when you can access the first hand results from the original source the games themselves? Curry could have been chosen for any number of awards numerous times and be perfectly deserving of them. Curry even among his critics if you listen to them whine about how he supposedly doesn't bring it in the post season has a strong argument for possibly being the greatest regular season player ever. It is odd then that he only has two regular season MVPs same as Jokic who has not come anywhere close to dominating the league the way Curry has. If there is an active bias working against Curry in these media awards then Curry is very much better than what they say.

As stated previously Curry has been on more top defensive teams according to defensive rating than LeBron. If LeBron is such a strong defender and Curry such a weak one, one would expect the reverse but that is not the case. If it does not translate to the team level then what's the point?

Don't know much about LeBron's financial exploits except he is a billionaire or thereabouts. I've also heard about the shot in the arm to Cleveland's economy LeBron brought. That said when talking about the most lucrative franchises in the NBA it is the Warriors who are second and who have seen their value rise by multiple billions from the time Curry joined the team. Even after a season where they finished last it was the Warriors who were in half of the top ten most viewed games in the league. It is the Warriors who are the most popular NBA franchise globally.

I was referring to Steph's overall impact not just defensive impact but it was enough to contribute to a number one rated defense for a team with a 67-win season ending with a championship. A better record than any of LeBron's.

Your entire point about the assist part doesn’t make any sense. You asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Of course assists aren’t the be all end all. There’s various aspects to it. You asked for proof however and I provided it to you. Stockton never won anything, but what does that have to do with his abilities as a playmaker? How does that disprove what I just said? What makes it worse for you is that LeBron HAS won as the main playmaker. Four times in fact. In fact, that’s more times than Curry! I guess by that logic, LeBron is better, no?

First off, Curry doesn’t have an argument for best regular season player ever. That would be Wilt Chamberlain. I can’t believe a warriors fanatic would make a statement like this. Second, nothing you just said said about the “media awards” has any validity. Nikola hasn’t dominated in the fashion Curry has? Do you understand how stupid of a statement that is? He just had the highest PER season of all time, crushing the record Wilt had.

Yeah, that’s not the case because Curry has been with the DPOY, a second all team defender in Klay, and multiple other elite defenders. Stop with these idiotic statements. Curry has never been a better defender than LeBron. He’s never even come close.

The warriors are not the second most lucrative franchise in the NBA. If that’s the case, prove it.

Oh, you mean that team that had another all NBA player on it and two all defense members? THAT one?

[TheLand13]

Kaj has 6 MVPs and titles most pts scored yet most ppl here put LeBron over him while claiming LeBron over curry bc of awards and counting stats. Provide more or it's a bit hypocritical

If we just doing that,
If curry 3 peats starting this finals and gets 2 MVP 3 fmvp he would be clearly ahead for me and near Jordan. It's all on one team too.
2 titles 1mvp 2fmvp gets him in the top 5 for me and debatable with LeBron

Awards and counting stats are not the only reason people are putting LeBron over Curry.

You can theoretically argue that LeBron has always been better on both ends of the floor. While obviously Curry is the better scorer and shooter, LeBron has always been by far the better playmaker and in his prime was almost just as big of a problem to guard. Even if you put Curry over LeBron offensively though, defensively the gap is so massive that it's not even up for debate. I've been spending most of this thread explaining why LeBron is superior without even having to bring up the amount of accolades LeBron has, because the simple fact of the matter is, there's more to determining someone's greatness than just the awards they won.

Case and point: The KAJ vs LeBron debate.

I've gone on record stating that an argument still exists for KAJ>LeBron. And LeBron would need to have another 2020-like run for it to, in my opinion, no longer be arguable. Speaking of which, I myself was on that boat even when I was a LeBron stan. LeBron's 2020 run changed that for me. KAJ at that point in his career wasn't anything near the level of greatness we witnessed from LeBron that year. And the simple fact of the matter is, I don't think we will see another person be that great that late into their career for a very long time. It's a very difficult thing to accomplish.

I've also acknowledged that an argument exists for LeBron>Jordan as well. But truth be told, I'm not in that club and I probably never will be. I think one thing we can all agree with is this: there is no argument at all for Curry>LeBron and I think it's pretty hilarious that there's a person on this board who actually exists that put in the time and effort to try to debate it (and do a terrible job of it might I add).

I don't think it is a forgone conclusion Steph is a better scorer:

Let's take a look at the PS, looking at some 3-year scoring peaks from some guys you mentioned, (adjusted to a 110 league average).
Lebron (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 32 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.6%)

Lebron (16-18)-Inflation Adjusted 30.6 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.9%)

Lebron (17-20)-Inflation Adjusted 30.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

Lebron (12-14)-Inflation Adjusted 30.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9%)

Lebron (14-16)-Inflation Adjusted 30.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.9%)

Lebron (13-15)-Inflation Adjusted 29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)

Lebron (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)


Curry's Best Run

Curry (15-17)-Inflation Adjusted 28.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.6%)

I would still give the nod to Curry. I think his vastly superior shooting ability and being more skilled puts him over LeBron.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Incidentally, all the folks saying "It can't happen!" remind me of conversations around 2011 talking about how LeBron's GOAT candidacy was already over.

Big difference though: LeBron was 26 at the time, Curry is 34. A 26-year-old still has ample time to show you new things, do things he hasn't done before. A 34-year old doesn't.

Curry can, and likely will, add to his resume, but he's not going to show you something on the floor that you haven't seen from him before. He is who he is at this point. He shouldn't rise or fall according to anything he does from this point on in his career.

So you believe that whether Curry puts in years more of effort allowing the Warriors to win more championships, or he goes out there and physically assaults his own teammates to undermine them for the rest of his career, it doesn't matter.

For the record, I think it does matter.

Will Curry see a huge uptick in PS play moving forward at 34? If he does, and does it long enough more discussion can be had.

Per Bryan Spangler's PS RAPM (98-2019)

LBJ-8.74541

Curry-6.502956

Per Canzhi Ye's 2006-2019 RAPM

LBJ-9.206858362

Steph-7.229954936

In 1998 RAPM-2019 Playoffs RAPM

LBJ-7.66

Steph-4.38

In @jalengreen PS RAPM (97-21)

LBJ-5.873

Steph-4.117

Is Steph going to show a new element of his game he hasn't yet?

[WarriorGM]

Your entire point about the assist part doesn’t make any sense. You asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Of course assists aren’t the be all end all. There’s various aspects to it. You asked for proof however and I provided it to you. Stockton never won anything, but what does that have to do with his abilities as a playmaker? How does that disprove what I just said? What makes it worse for you is that LeBron HAS won as the main playmaker. Four times in fact. In fact, that’s more times than Curry! I guess by that logic, LeBron is better, no?

First off, Curry doesn’t have an argument for best regular season player ever. That would be Wilt Chamberlain. I can’t believe a warriors fanatic would make a statement like this. Second, nothing you just said said about the “media awards” has any validity. Nikola hasn’t dominated in the fashion Curry has? Do you understand how stupid of a statement that is? He just had the highest PER season of all time, crushing the record Wilt had.

Yeah, that’s not the case because Curry has been with the DPOY, a second all team defender in Klay, and multiple other elite defenders. Stop with these idiotic statements. Curry has never been a better defender than LeBron. He’s never even come close.

The warriors are not the second most lucrative franchise in the NBA. If that’s the case, prove it.

Oh, you mean that team that had another all NBA player on it and two all defense members? THAT one?

My examples show how Curry has the ability to make another playmaker more effective and another scorer more effective. LeBron's ability to do that isn't as notable in comparison. Now if you want to reduce the conversation to LeBron has won more championships I don't mind. But please don't put LeBron ahead of Kobe.

Media awards fawning over PER the same way they did when Westbrook got their award? That's supposed to prove media awards have validity?

If all it takes is to have great defensive pieces to win championships then LeBron should be faulted for not playing with more of them when he could choose who he wanted to play with. It's not as if he hasn't been on a team with two recent All-Defensive guys. He's played with far more of them than Curry but for some reason they don't make All-Defense as much when with LeBron. Maybe good defensive players wouldn't be satisfied with the way LeBron plays.

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Estimated NBA franchise value:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193696/franchise-value-of-national-basketball-association-teams-in-2010/

[Topofthekey]

Thing is, LeBron probably leaves as soon as he hits free agency

So the comparison is do you take LeBron for his first 8 seasons, or Curry for the entirety of his career

[NO-KG-AI]

I saw the best version of both guys play, and LeBron James is one of the 3-4 best players to ever play the game, at worst, and Steph Curry isn't really approaching that, and doesn't even have some absurd longevity thing to try and make up the gap.

[TheLand13]

Your entire point about the assist part doesn’t make any sense. You asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Of course assists aren’t the be all end all. There’s various aspects to it. You asked for proof however and I provided it to you. Stockton never won anything, but what does that have to do with his abilities as a playmaker? How does that disprove what I just said? What makes it worse for you is that LeBron HAS won as the main playmaker. Four times in fact. In fact, that’s more times than Curry! I guess by that logic, LeBron is better, no?

First off, Curry doesn’t have an argument for best regular season player ever. That would be Wilt Chamberlain. I can’t believe a warriors fanatic would make a statement like this. Second, nothing you just said said about the “media awards” has any validity. Nikola hasn’t dominated in the fashion Curry has? Do you understand how stupid of a statement that is? He just had the highest PER season of all time, crushing the record Wilt had.

Yeah, that’s not the case because Curry has been with the DPOY, a second all team defender in Klay, and multiple other elite defenders. Stop with these idiotic statements. Curry has never been a better defender than LeBron. He’s never even come close.

The warriors are not the second most lucrative franchise in the NBA. If that’s the case, prove it.

Oh, you mean that team that had another all NBA player on it and two all defense members? THAT one?

My examples show how Curry has the ability to make another playmaker more effective and another scorer more effective. LeBron's ability to do that isn't as notable in comparison. Now if you want to reduce the conversation to LeBron has won more championships I don't mind. But please don't put LeBron ahead of Kobe.

Media awards fawning over PER the same way they did when Westbrook got their award? That's supposed to prove media awards have validity?

If all it takes is to have great defensive pieces to win championships then LeBron should be faulted for not playing with more of them when he could choose who he wanted to play with. It's not as if he hasn't been on a team with two recent All-Defensive guys. He's played with far more of them than Curry but for some reason they don't make All-Defense as much when with LeBron. Maybe good defensive players wouldn't be satisfied with the way LeBron plays.

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Estimated NBA franchise value:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193696/franchise-value-of-national-basketball-association-teams-in-2010/

Okay, great. But you’re still going to have to do better than that. LeBron does that too and then some. I’ve already acknowledged that Curry is off the ball. That’s not enough to put him over LeBron.

No, but if you’re trying to argue that Jokic wasn’t the best player this year by a pretty sizable margin, then there’s another reason to not take you seriously. Of course there are going to be award selections that look bad with age. That doesn’t suddenly make them faulty. No one had any reasonable argument over LeBron in the years he won it. I see no reason not to mention them.

Lmao of course LeBron gets faulted for that. That’s one of my biggest criticisms of him. Again, gonna need more than that to justify putting Curry over him. And by the way, no. Doesn’t just take that to win titles. You need legitimately good teammates who can impact the game in multiple ways. Curry had a lot of teammates fitting this description.

Good call on the last part. I stand corrected.