Tatum VS Luka

[Bob8]

People have been saying this since he was 19.

People saying how young players have peaked already is stupid. Young players, if they want to put work in it, are improving all the time. It's better to look at which areas players can improve significantly. I'm sure that Tatum has a lot of room for improvement, but I don't know him enough to say where specifically. I know Luka well enough to say something. FT%, there's no reason that he can't shoot around 85%. A little better shot selection and his FG% should go up too. And the most important for him, better conditioning. This will unlock his potential in offensive end and D. Everything is easier, if you're in good physical condition. In some ways it's fascinating how overweighted player can do that much damage to his opponents, but he will need to address that problem sooner or later.

Magic went from a decent FT shooter (76-80%) to a great one (90%) in the course of about 5 years. Given Luka's touch, I would expect something similar for Luka.

Luka's FTs are very weird thing. He was over 80% FT shooter in Europe. For some reason he regressed in Nba. FTs are probably the easiest thing to improve, so I'm optimistic.

[MrGoat]

KP has been an All Star not a problem.

In 20-21 KP averaged 24/10/2 on 64TS% per 36 minutes when he was on the court with Luka. Hes been completely inconsistent due to a ton of injuries. No evidence at all that Luka made KP worse or held him back.

So KP was a good player in Dallas?

He was when fully healthy, in those rare stretches he's a 30-10 guy who gives you rim protection as well. He was a monster in the bubble, he got tossed in game 1 against the Clippers and the narrative back then even was that it looked like the Clippers would have been in trouble had he not been tossed. But he went down with injury after game 3. The next season he played in all games but he entered the playoffs just coming off an injury and wasn't 100% and it showed. He was injured again when we traded him, ironically he finished the season with the Wizards healthy.

[mpoo_sin]

People saying how young players have peaked already is stupid. Young players, if they want to put work in it, are improving all the time. It's better to look at which areas players can improve significantly. I'm sure that Tatum has a lot of room for improvement, but I don't know him enough to say where specifically. I know Luka well enough to say something. FT%, there's no reason that he can't shoot around 85%. A little better shot selection and his FG% should go up too. And the most important for him, better conditioning. This will unlock his potential in offensive end and D. Everything is easier, if you're in good physical condition. In some ways it's fascinating how overweighted player can do that much damage to his opponents, but he will need to address that problem sooner or later.

Magic went from a decent FT shooter (76-80%) to a great one (90%) in the course of about 5 years. Given Luka's touch, I would expect something similar for Luka.

Luka's FTs are very weird thing. He was over 80% FT shooter in Europe. For some reason he regressed in Nba. FTs are probably the easiest thing to improve, so I'm optimistic.

It is not weird, it is mental. : )
He is overthinking a lot and he visibly tightens up when he is at the line.
85% is a huge improvement but i think it is not too far fetched to think he can get to 80%+.

Looking forward to Eurobasket. He will toy with everyone. Even more than at the Olympics last year (where he was absolutely insane).

[3toheadmelo]

You should be proud speaking better than someone, who is using English only in this forum.

I have never said Luka and Jordan are comparable as players, their counting stats in playoffs are. But you have no interest in Luka's playoffs stats, aren't you? You rather move target and talk about Jordan's D.

Bob just let it out. You know deep down you think Luka is better than Jordan or at least on his level. we see it. For someone who keeps comparing his stats to him but denies that you’re comparing them as players is very telling

Yes, deep down I think that 23 years old Luka is better than GOAT.

Stats are used for comparison. Luka is having phenomenal start of his career in playoffs. But in the end only titles matters. When Luka wins 6th title, I will seriously compare those 2 as players. Until then you have Tatum, Harden, Melo, Trae...on that list too. And you can compare how successful and efficient they are in playoffs. Maybe you will reconsider your opinion that Luka is similar to Melo, with that claim we started our discussion btw. I understand, if you're a little bit embarrassed about it.

Until Luka makes it to the finals he will be in the convo with Melo, Harden, Derozan etc. I know you’re a bit embarrassed about your Jordan comparison and especially how you said he didn’t play defense

[Bob8]

Bob just let it out. You know deep down you think Luka is better than Jordan or at least on his level. we see it. For someone who keeps comparing his stats to him but denies that you’re comparing them as players is very telling

Yes, deep down I think that 23 years old Luka is better than GOAT.

Stats are used for comparison. Luka is having phenomenal start of his career in playoffs. But in the end only titles matters. When Luka wins 6th title, I will seriously compare those 2 as players. Until then you have Tatum, Harden, Melo, Trae...on that list too. And you can compare how successful and efficient they are in playoffs. Maybe you will reconsider your opinion that Luka is similar to Melo, with that claim we started our discussion btw. I understand, if you're a little bit embarrassed about it.

Until Luka makes it to the finals he will be in the convo with Melo, Harden, Derozan etc. I know you’re a bit embarrassed about your Jordan comparison and especially how you said he didn’t play defense

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing for great Dallas team.

This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

[3toheadmelo]

Yes, deep down I think that 23 years old Luka is better than GOAT.

Stats are used for comparison. Luka is having phenomenal start of his career in playoffs. But in the end only titles matters. When Luka wins 6th title, I will seriously compare those 2 as players. Until then you have Tatum, Harden, Melo, Trae...on that list too. And you can compare how successful and efficient they are in playoffs. Maybe you will reconsider your opinion that Luka is similar to Melo, with that claim we started our discussion btw. I understand, if you're a little bit embarrassed about it.

Until Luka makes it to the finals he will be in the convo with Melo, Harden, Derozan etc. I know you’re a bit embarrassed about your Jordan comparison and especially how you said he didn’t play defense

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing with great Dallas team.


This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

[Fencer reregistered]

Even though Tatum is 24, it feels to me as if he's peaked. And If he hasn't, he's close to it. It's hard for me to envision him getting any better than he is right now and he's pretty damn good right now.

People have been saying this since he really was 19.

FTFY

[Fencer reregistered]

Even though Tatum is 24, it feels to me as if he's peaked. And If he hasn't, he's close to it. It's hard for me to envision him getting any better than he is right now and he's pretty damn good right now.

People have been saying this since he was 19.

But seriously, that's an odd view to hold given Tatum's great improvements in passing and in attacking the rim over the past year or so.

[Bob8]

@3toheadmelo

I know my English is not good, if that is a problem for you, maybe we should talk in some other language next time? I'm sure you are speaking fluently at least few more.

[mpoo_sin]

Until Luka makes it to the finals he will be in the convo with Melo, Harden, Derozan etc. I know you’re a bit embarrassed about your Jordan comparison and especially how you said he didn’t play defense

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing with great Dallas team.


This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

That is not true. At the start of the season there were people who thought they would win the east. They just started horribly and people then were thinking that the Celtics would implode.

They had a similar turnaround like the Mavericks. One difference was that there was a lot more tension in Bostons team because they started the season with higher goals than the Mavericks.

Improbable yet remarkable. Kudos to Udokah in that regard.

[mpoo_sin]

Since Op is so hellbent on Tatum being a "winning player" and Doncic not: what has Tatum actually won yet? Jack ****! You say Doncics international accomplishments are "irrelevant". Why is that? Doesn t fit your narrative about him not being a winning player i suppose.

Let s see how the Celtics fare against the Warriors.
How would you think about Tatum being a winning player when they get swept by the Warriors? A hypothetical question of course. But i m really curious what your answer is to this question.

[3toheadmelo]

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing with great Dallas team.


This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

That is not true. At the start of the season there were people who thought they would win the east. They just started horribly and people then were thinking that the Celtics would implode.

They had a similar turnaround like the Mavericks. One difference was that there was a lot more tension in Bostons team because they started the season with higher goals than the Mavericks.

Improbable yet remarkable. Kudos to Udokah in that regard.

Would love to see who thought Boston was going to win the east. Because the majority thought it was going to be one of these teams: Bucks, Heat, Philly, Brooklyn.

The key difference to Bostons turnaround was their defense. And that starts with their best player, Tatum. That is why they’ve made it this far. Defense matters.

[ITYSL]

Even though Tatum is 24, it feels to me as if he's peaked. And If he hasn't, he's close to it. It's hard for me to envision him getting any better than he is right now and he's pretty damn good right now.

With Luka, I feel as though he's got another level he can reach if he's willing to commit himself. Will he become selfish and commit himself in the offseason and say no to his national team? Just based on some of his decisions in the offseason, the answer is he won't. He might just stay at this level for the rest of his career. This isn't a bad thing, but he could be so much more.

I'm not sure why you would think that about Tatum. He's improved every year. He improved his playmaking this season and his ability to handle double teams. He can still improve on reducing turnovers, getting to the FT line, having more urgency in transition, complaining less to the officials, absorbing contact when finishing around the rim, some other areas as well. And all of those improvements are very possible with him.

[3toheadmelo]

@3toheadmelo

I know my English is not good, if that is a problem for you, maybe we should talk in some other language next time? I'm sure you are speaking fluently at least few more.

I don’t have a issue with your English. But it’s a horrible look for you to try and call out people for how fluent they are in English when your grammar is one of the worst I’ve seen on this site. Stay humble Bob

[mpoo_sin]

Tatum played in the 2014 FIBA Under-17 World Championship[106] and 2015 FIBA Under-19 World Championship,[107] making the Eurobasket.com All-World Championship U19 Second Team.
And Gold in Tokyo Olympics 2020(1)

This is what he has won until now. Amazing accomplishments!! Second team u19. Crazy feat of strenght.

[3toheadmelo]

Since Op is so hellbent on Tatum being a "winning player" and Doncic not: what has Tatum actually won yet? Jack ****! You say Doncics international accomplishments are "irrelevant". Why is that? Doesn t fit your narrative about him not being a winning player i suppose.

Let s see how the Celtics fare against the Warriors.
How would you think about Tatum being a winning player when they get swept by the Warriors? A hypothetical question of course. But i m really curious what your answer is to this question.

Because we’re talking about two completely different leagues? Nobody cares about who has won what in Europe. Pablo Prigioni won the Spanish league in 2008. Whoopty doo! News flash.. this is the NBA.

I’ve never called Luka a losing player though. You’re just straw manning at this point. He’s a winning player too. But Tatum has won more in the NBA and can get your team into the finals which Luka has yet to shown. It’s the truth that you won’t accept.

[mpoo_sin]

Since Op is so hellbent on Tatum being a "winning player" and Doncic not: what has Tatum actually won yet? Jack ****! You say Doncics international accomplishments are "irrelevant". Why is that? Doesn t fit your narrative about him not being a winning player i suppose.

Let s see how the Celtics fare against the Warriors.
How would you think about Tatum being a winning player when they get swept by the Warriors? A hypothetical question of course. But i m really curious what your answer is to this question.

Because we’re talking about two completely different leagues? Nobody cares about who has won what in Europe. Pablo Prigioni won the Spanish league in 2008. Whoopty doo! News flash.. this is the NBA.

I’ve never called Luka a losing player though. You’re just straw manning at this point. He’s a winning player too. But Tatum has won more in the NBA and can get your team into the finals which Luka has yet to shown. It’s the truth that you won’t accept.

Did i say you called Doncic a losing player?
Talking about straw manning...
So reaching the NBA finals is the criteria for being a winning player now?
Carry on...

[3toheadmelo]

Since Op is so hellbent on Tatum being a "winning player" and Doncic not: what has Tatum actually won yet? Jack ****! You say Doncics international accomplishments are "irrelevant". Why is that? Doesn t fit your narrative about him not being a winning player i suppose.

Let s see how the Celtics fare against the Warriors.
How would you think about Tatum being a winning player when they get swept by the Warriors? A hypothetical question of course. But i m really curious what your answer is to this question.

Because we’re talking about two completely different leagues? Nobody cares about who has won what in Europe. Pablo Prigioni won the Spanish league in 2008. Whoopty doo! News flash.. this is the NBA.

I’ve never called Luka a losing player though. You’re just straw manning at this point. He’s a winning player too. But Tatum has won more in the NBA and can get your team into the finals which Luka has yet to shown. It’s the truth that you won’t accept.

Did i say you called Doncic a losing player?
Talking about straw manning...
So reaching the NBA finals is the criteria for being a winning player now?
Carry on...

You just said I’m hellbent on calling Tatum a winning player and Luka not one. Literally your own words.

[mpoo_sin]

Since Op is so hellbent on Tatum being a "winning player" and Doncic not: what has Tatum actually won yet? Jack ****! You say Doncics international accomplishments are "irrelevant". Why is that? Doesn t fit your narrative about him not being a winning player i suppose.

Let s see how the Celtics fare against the Warriors.
How would you think about Tatum being a winning player when they get swept by the Warriors? A hypothetical question of course. But i m really curious what your answer is to this question.

Because we’re talking about two completely different leagues? Nobody cares about who has won what in Europe. Pablo Prigioni won the Spanish league in 2008. Whoopty doo! News flash.. this is the NBA.

I’ve never called Luka a losing player though. You’re just straw manning at this point. He’s a winning player too. But Tatum has won more in the NBA and can get your team into the finals which Luka has yet to shown. It’s the truth that you won’t accept.

Oh, and we are talking about who the better player is. Not in which league. In general.

[Bob8]

@3toheadmelo

I know my English is not good, if that is a problem for you, maybe we should talk in some other language next time? I'm sure you are speaking fluently at least few more.

I don’t have a issue with your English. But it’s a horrible look for you to try and call out people for how fluent they are in English when your grammar is one of the worst I’ve seen on this site. Stay humble Bob

My grammar might be bad, but I didn't doubt how fluent your English is. I doubted about your reading comprehension. It could be deliberate thought.

I guess we won't continue in some other language, we're both fluent in?