Tatum VS Luka

[mpoo_sin]

Not being a winning player, exactly!
Just maybe there can be something inbetween?
: )

[3toheadmelo]

@3toheadmelo

I know my English is not good, if that is a problem for you, maybe we should talk in some other language next time? I'm sure you are speaking fluently at least few more.

I don’t have a issue with your English. But it’s a horrible look for you to try and call out people for how fluent they are in English when your grammar is one of the worst I’ve seen on this site. Stay humble Bob

My grammar might be bad, but I didn't doubt how fluent your English is. I doubted about your reading comprehension. It could be deliberate thought.

I guess we won't continue in some other language, we're both fluent in?

Stay humble Bob! You’re digging yourself in a hole deeper and deeper with this

[3toheadmelo]

It sure looks like some people love to straw man. Luka is a winning player as well but to a certain extent. It’s not that hard to comprehend.

[Fencer reregistered]

One confusion in this discussion:

For years, a large fraction of the league's best players have been SF-sized guys with diverse offensive skills who also played excellent defense. Tatum is just the most recent of a group that includes LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George. It's reasonable to say he's currently the best of the group, and he indeed placed the best among them in year-end accolades. (But nobody would claim he's matched peak LeBron or peak KD.)

Luka, on the other hand, fits a rarer mold. Usually when somebody's thought of as perhaps one of the very top players in the league despite being regarded as blah on defense or worse, he's either a traditionally-sized PG or a great-shooting big.

[Bob8]

I don’t have a issue with your English. But it’s a horrible look for you to try and call out people for how fluent they are in English when your grammar is one of the worst I’ve seen on this site. Stay humble Bob

My grammar might be bad, but I didn't doubt how fluent your English is. I doubted about your reading comprehension. It could be deliberate thought.

I guess we won't continue in some other language, we're both fluent in?

Stay humble Bob! You’re digging yourself in a hole deeper and deeper with this

Maybe I will find Ayton in it.

I'm a bit disappointed, I was sure you will show me, how not native speaker should fluently speak some other language.

[3toheadmelo]

Until Luka makes it to the finals he will be in the convo with Melo, Harden, Derozan etc. I know you’re a bit embarrassed about your Jordan comparison and especially how you said he didn’t play defense

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing with great Dallas team.


This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

So I see you have no response to any of this besides your English. Well done Bob

[Bob8]

It sure looks like some people love to straw man. Luka is a winning player as well but to a certain extent. It’s not that hard to comprehend.

It's very hard to understand how 23 years old player with Mavs' roster could be more winning player. Even GOAT couldn't do it.

[Bob8]

Yes, shockingly enough, he didn't make to the Finals, being 23 years old and playing with great Dallas team.


This is my only comment about MJ's D,
"I haven't exactly feeling that D was the most important for him in the beginning. Things have changed over his career of course.'

Maybe your English is not that good after all.

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

So I see you have no response to any of this besides your English. Well done Bob

I explained to you before, Melo is worse in everything. Points, efficiency, assists...And more importantly Melo was only scorer, Luka is floor general, facilitator too. Totally different type of player. You're comparing him to Luka just because they didn't win anything. But there's a big difference, Luka is 23 years old in the beginning of his career. Deliberately discounting his age shows your secret agenda.

Look at Boston's and Mavs' roster and honestly tell me that they're comparable. Put prime MJ or LeBron in Mavs' roster instead of Luka and result would have been the same.

[mpoo_sin]

It sure looks like some people love to straw man. Luka is a winning player as well but to a certain extent. It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Yeah, low key dissing Doncic by saying he is in the same tier as freaking Carmelo Anthony.

To what extent is he a winning player? You stated that his international accolades are irrelevant. What has he won in the NBA yet?
What has Tatum won in the NBA yet?

Let s see:
Tatum:
NBA Eastern Conference Finals MVP (2022)

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)

All-NBA First Team (2022)

All-NBA Third Team (2020)

NBA All-Rookie First Team (2018)

Third-team All-ACC (2017)

ACC All-Freshman team (2017)

McDonald's All-American (2016)

Gatorade National Player of the Year (2016)

Mr. Show-Me Basketball (2016)

Nice!

Doncic:

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)

3× All-NBA First Team (2020–2022)

NBA Rookie of the Year (2019)

NBA All-Rookie First Team (2019)

EuroLeague champion (2018)

EuroLeague MVP (2018)

EuroLeague Final Four MVP (2018)

All-EuroLeague First Team (2018)

2× EuroLeague Rising Star (2017, 2018)

EuroLeague 2010–20 All-Decade Team (2020)

Euroscar Player of the Year (2019)

3× Liga ACB champion (2015, 2016, 2018)

Liga ACB MVP (2018)

All-Liga ACB First Team (2018)

2× ACB Best Young Player (2017, 2018)

3× ACB All-Young Players Team (2016–2018)

2× Spanish King's Cup winner (2016, 2017)

2× Trofeo Costa de Sol champion (2016, 2017)

FIBA Intercontinental Cup champion (2015)

EB Next Generation Tournament champion (2015)

EB Next Generation Tournament MVP (2015)

Slovenian Sportsman of the Year (2018)

Hmmm.

[SelfishPlayer]

I've stated that I would select Tatum because he plays a greater brand of winning basketball. I would then through the years use his superior winning over Doncic as evidence, but Doncic proponents will simply blame his teammates for any winning that comes in less than Tatum. I can also see that individual accomplishments are being compared. I'm concerned with championships, which is a team accomplishment.

[3toheadmelo]

No offense bro, but your English is terrible. “I haven’t exactly feeling” is not even proper English. it should’ve been typed as “I haven’t exactly felt”

But you literally claimed defense was not important for Jordan in the beginning of his career because you tried to make an excuse for Luka being ass on that end .. yet he won DPOY in his 4th season which is the same season Luka is in. So that’s a bit embarrassing for you

What Tatum did no one ever expected him to do this season. Boston was 18-21. Worse than Dallas ever was this season. Not a single person thought they were going to the Finals. And Tatum led them there. That is why people are calling him a winning player on top of his 2 other ECFS (which in both he was one game away from making the finals as well). I had to break it down for you since you seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of a winning player. And no, Lukas accomplishments in euro league is very irrelevant to the NBA.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Cheers Bob. Hopefully Luka makes it to the finals one day.

So I see you have no response to any of this besides your English. Well done Bob

I explained to you before, Melo is worse in everything. Points, efficiency, assists...And more importantly Melo was only scorer, Luka is floor general, facilitator too. Totally different type of player. You're comparing him to Luka just because they didn't win anything. But there's a big difference, Luka is 23 years old in the beginning of his career. Deliberately discounting his age shows your secret agenda.

Look at Boston's and Mavs' roster and honestly tell me that they're comparable. Put prime MJ or LeBron in Mavs' roster instead of Luka and result would have been the same.

I am comparing them because they are both one dimensional players that have yet to show they can be the best player on a team that is contending for a championship. Not that hard of a concept to grasp Bob . No secret agenda. And like I said, Melo was a helluva player.


Like I said, Boston was 18-21. Worse than Mavs ever were this season yet they still made it to the finals. So honestly, there's no excuses for Luka to not do the same as well.

[3toheadmelo]

It sure looks like some people love to straw man. Luka is a winning player as well but to a certain extent. It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Yeah, low key dissing Doncic by saying he is in the same tier as freaking Carmelo Anthony.

To what extent is he a winning player? You stated that his international accolades are irrelevant. What has he won in the NBA yet?
What has Tatum won in the NBA yet?


Hmmm.

How is this a diss? Stop straw manning.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

And what has Tatum won?

[mpoo_sin]

I've stated that I would select Tatum because he plays a greater brand of winning basketball. I would then through the years use his superior winning over Doncic as evidence, but Doncic proponents will simply blame his teammates for any winning that comes in less than Tatum. I can also see that individual accomplishments are being compared. I'm concerned with championships, which is a team accomplishment.

I m confused.
Of these two: who has won a championship in the NBA yet?
Are you talking about the future? Do you know what will happen?
Teamwise which team had the upper hand this season? Or are you talking about the future again?

Right now both have not won a "team accomplishment" (an NBA championship) in the NBA.
I wonder what this "brand of winning basketball" actually means.

Right now Doncic clearly has more accomplishments individually and team-wise.
Facts.

[mpoo_sin]

It sure looks like some people love to straw man. Luka is a winning player as well but to a certain extent. It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Yeah, low key dissing Doncic by saying he is in the same tier as freaking Carmelo Anthony.

To what extent is he a winning player? You stated that his international accolades are irrelevant. What has he won in the NBA yet?
What has Tatum won in the NBA yet?


Hmmm.

How is this a diss? Stop straw manning.

Anyways Luka being in the same tier as someone like Melo is not even a bad look. I love Melo and consider him one of the best scorers to ever play the game. So good for Luka to even get that type of co-sign by me. Remember Melo carried the Nuggets to the playoffs for 7 years straight as a Denver Nugget including a WCF appearance against Kobe. Before he joined the Nuggets they were 17-65 and as soon as he joined them they went 43-39. Luka has that type of impact as well. Great floor raisers for sure. Luka has better team mates in Dallas than Melo ever did though. But yeah point stands, being in a tier with Melo is pretty damn good if you ask me.

And what has Tatum won?

Amazing trophy!

[3toheadmelo]

Not sure why dude is hellbent on posting Euroleague accomplishments like it is relevant to the NBA.

Like look at Rubio's.

NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
EuroLeague champion (2010)
EuroCup champion (2008)
Liga ACB champion (2011)
2× Copa del Rey champion (2010, 2011)
FIBA EuroChallenge champion (2006)
Mister Europa Player of the Year (2008)
EuroLeague Rising Star (2010)
ACB Defensive Player of the Year (2009)
ACB Most Spectacular Player (2010)
2× All-Liga ACB Team (2008, 2010)
ACB Rising Star Award (2007)
3× FIBA Young Player of the Year (2007–2009)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2019)
FIBA Europe Under-16 Championship MVP (2006)

What has Rubio won in the NBA? Nada.

[Bob8]

So I see you have no response to any of this besides your English. Well done Bob

I explained to you before, Melo is worse in everything. Points, efficiency, assists...And more importantly Melo was only scorer, Luka is floor general, facilitator too. Totally different type of player. You're comparing him to Luka just because they didn't win anything. But there's a big difference, Luka is 23 years old in the beginning of his career. Deliberately discounting his age shows your secret agenda.

Look at Boston's and Mavs' roster and honestly tell me that they're comparable. Put prime MJ or LeBron in Mavs' roster instead of Luka and result would have been the same.

I am comparing them because they are both one dimensional players that have yet to show they can be the best player on a team that is contending for a championship. Not that hard of a concept to grasp Bob . No secret agenda. And like I said, Melo was a helluva player.


Like I said, Boston was 18-21. Worse than Mavs ever were this season yet they still made it to the finals. So honestly, there's no excuses for Luka to not do the same as well.

How can you compare only scorer to a better scoring and more efficient Pg, who's the whole Mavs system by himself?

We both know that Boston's roster is much better. Ntilikina, who couldn't even get on court in New York, was in Mavs rotation in WCF.

When you talk about D, don't you think, it's a bit easier to play with DPOY and elite rim protector, than with Brunson and Powell?

Did Mavs and Boston play against same opponents in conference finals? If Celtics lose in Finals, is Tatum still better?

[3toheadmelo]

I explained to you before, Melo is worse in everything. Points, efficiency, assists...And more importantly Melo was only scorer, Luka is floor general, facilitator too. Totally different type of player. You're comparing him to Luka just because they didn't win anything. But there's a big difference, Luka is 23 years old in the beginning of his career. Deliberately discounting his age shows your secret agenda.

Look at Boston's and Mavs' roster and honestly tell me that they're comparable. Put prime MJ or LeBron in Mavs' roster instead of Luka and result would have been the same.

I am comparing them because they are both one dimensional players that have yet to show they can be the best player on a team that is contending for a championship. Not that hard of a concept to grasp Bob . No secret agenda. And like I said, Melo was a helluva player.


Like I said, Boston was 18-21. Worse than Mavs ever were this season yet they still made it to the finals. So honestly, there's no excuses for Luka to not do the same as well.

How can you compare only scorer to a better scoring and more efficient Pg, who's the whole Mavs system by himself?

We both know that Boston's roster is much better. Ntilikina, who couldn't even get on court in New York, was in Mavs rotation in WCF.

When you talk about D, don't you think, it's a bit easier to play with DPOY and elite rim protector, than with Brunson and Powell?

Did Mavs and Boston play against same opponents in conference finals? If Celtics lose in Finals, is Tatum still better?

Melo was pretty much the whole offense on those Nuggets teams. So yeah the comparison seems pretty good to me.

We both know damn well no one expected Boston to be in the finals after being 18-21. That's why it's so impressive what he has just accomplished. Getting past KD/Kyrie, Giannis, Butler is not an easy task at all. You can point at the team mates Luka has, but they were still able to win playoff games WITHOUT him which speaks volumes about how good they were. So you're overexaggerating how bad they were if they were still able to win games without Luka in the playoffs.

And yeah even if Tatum loses to a loaded Warriors team he will still be viewed as the superior player to me. He's had a historic playoff run. Luka will need to do something similar in my eyes to top him.

[Bob8]

I am comparing them because they are both one dimensional players that have yet to show they can be the best player on a team that is contending for a championship. Not that hard of a concept to grasp Bob . No secret agenda. And like I said, Melo was a helluva player.


Like I said, Boston was 18-21. Worse than Mavs ever were this season yet they still made it to the finals. So honestly, there's no excuses for Luka to not do the same as well.

How can you compare only scorer to a better scoring and more efficient Pg, who's the whole Mavs system by himself?

We both know that Boston's roster is much better. Ntilikina, who couldn't even get on court in New York, was in Mavs rotation in WCF.

When you talk about D, don't you think, it's a bit easier to play with DPOY and elite rim protector, than with Brunson and Powell?

Did Mavs and Boston play against same opponents in conference finals? If Celtics lose in Finals, is Tatum still better?

Melo was pretty much the whole offense on those Nuggets teams. So yeah the comparison seems pretty good to me.

We both know damn well no one expected Boston to be in the finals after being 18-21. That's why it's so impressive what he has just accomplished. Getting past KD/Kyrie, Giannis, Butler is not an easy task at all. You can point at the team mates Luka has, but they were still able to win playoff games WITHOUT him which speaks volumes about how good they were. So you're overexaggerating how bad they were if they were still able to win games without Luka in the playoffs.

And yeah even if Tatum loses to a loaded Warriors team he will still be viewed as the superior player to me. He's had a historic playoff run. Luka will need to do something similar in my eyes to top him.

Nets were a mess all year long and that can't be undone in playoffs. Bucks and Heat had big problems with injuries. But I agree, Celtics had great playoffs.

I'm not exaggerating anything. Can you honestly say that Tatum hasn't better roster?

It's ok for Tatum to lose against loaded Warriors but not for Luka? Why?

Historic playoffs run normally ends with a title.

[ITYSL]

Generally, Luka leads in boxscore stats like points, rebounds and assists, while Tatum leads in impact stats like on/off, RAPM and LEBRON.

I think both teams are very happy with the player they have, and I don't think either team would trade their guy. Luka is an all-time offensive talent who has some weaknesses on defense, while Tatum is an elite two-way wing.

[3toheadmelo]

How can you compare only scorer to a better scoring and more efficient Pg, who's the whole Mavs system by himself?

We both know that Boston's roster is much better. Ntilikina, who couldn't even get on court in New York, was in Mavs rotation in WCF.

When you talk about D, don't you think, it's a bit easier to play with DPOY and elite rim protector, than with Brunson and Powell?

Did Mavs and Boston play against same opponents in conference finals? If Celtics lose in Finals, is Tatum still better?

Melo was pretty much the whole offense on those Nuggets teams. So yeah the comparison seems pretty good to me.

We both know damn well no one expected Boston to be in the finals after being 18-21. That's why it's so impressive what he has just accomplished. Getting past KD/Kyrie, Giannis, Butler is not an easy task at all. You can point at the team mates Luka has, but they were still able to win playoff games WITHOUT him which speaks volumes about how good they were. So you're overexaggerating how bad they were if they were still able to win games without Luka in the playoffs.

And yeah even if Tatum loses to a loaded Warriors team he will still be viewed as the superior player to me. He's had a historic playoff run. Luka will need to do something similar in my eyes to top him.

Nets were a mess all year long and that can't be undone in playoffs. Bucks and Heat had big problems with injuries. But I agree Celtics had great playoffs.

I'm not exaggerating anything. Can you honestly say that Tatum hasn't better roster?

It's ok for Tatum to lose against loaded Warriors but not for Luka? Why?

Historic playoffs run normally ends with a title.

Nets still had KD and Kyrie who were an injury away from beating Milwaukee last year. Boston had a bit of injuries as well including Tatum so not really a good excuse there.

Tatum took down HOFers in this playoff run to get to the finals. That's why it's historic.

If Boston wins the chip, do you still think Luka is better?