Jimmy Butler

[Ferry Avenue]

He's not an elite competitor but he played in the playoffs with a broken face and a destroyed shooting hand. Stop with the insanity. Just ridiculous hindsight going on with Embiid.

It's so absurd that the playing hurt thing matters less to people than body language. That's narcissism at work. "I think I can tell someone's competitive nature by watching facial expressions on TV!"

Spare me. I love Embiid, but showing up to a pivotal game 5 with a sulky, defeated attitude was a seismic disappointment. Being the man comes with standards and Joel is a habitual offender when it comes to abruptly abandoning his competitive fire amid a close playoff series. As a fan, you're allowed to be critical of that.

Give me a break. "sulky defeated attitude" just might be a guy who was playing in incredible pain. We had no idea what he was feeling. And you're correlating the "attitude" with having a bad game when it may have been his physical condition. For all we know he still may have been dealing with lingering concussion symptoms. I love how getting on the court and competing when he could have easily just took the series off and not risked his eye sight or hand anymore than they were, no one would have knocked him... that doesn't count for competitiveness, but not playing well counts against him. No consistency whatsoever. It's just having an agenda.

Whatever the reason, it hardly matters when it's been such a regular occurrence at the time when the team needs the opposite from its players to win. If it was a one-off for him that'd be fine, because it wouldn't be expected in the playoffs next year. At this point however it should be expected, and so that again makes the nucleus of the team highly unreliable in exhibiting the drive and determination necessary to beat the best teams in the league when they're all vying for the championship.

[FireMorey]

Spare me. I love Embiid, but showing up to a pivotal game 5 with a sulky, defeated attitude was a seismic disappointment. Being the man comes with standards and Joel is a habitual offender when it comes to abruptly abandoning his competitive fire amid a close playoff series. As a fan, you're allowed to be critical of that.

Give me a break. "sulky defeated attitude" just might be a guy who was playing in incredible pain. We had no idea what he was feeling. And you're correlating the "attitude" with having a bad game when it may have been his physical condition. For all we know he still may have been dealing with lingering concussion symptoms. I love how getting on the court and competing when he could have easily just took the series off and not risked his eye sight or hand anymore than they were, no one would have knocked him... that doesn't count for competitiveness, but not playing well counts against him. No consistency whatsoever. It's just having an agenda.

Whatever the reason, it hardly matters when it's been such a regular occurrence at the time when the team needs the opposite from its players to win. If it was a one-off for him that'd be fine, because it wouldn't be expected in the playoffs next year. At this point however it should be expected, and so that again makes the nucleus of the team highly unreliable in exhibiting the drive and determination necessary to beat the best teams in the league when they're all vying for the championship.

Games 3 and 4 don't count?

People only focus only count the not great games.

What about game 3 vs Toronto? Hitting a game winner with his busted hand?

[Bum Adebayo]

Embiid is not a leader and cannot be your 1st option, he has to be a Robin, as simple as that.

[stormi]

Embiid is not a leader and cannot be your 1st option, he has to be a Robin, as simple as that.

Yo

[downtownpie]

Embiid is not a leader and cannot be your 1st option, he has to be a Robin, as simple as that.

Posters are just realising this?

He is mvp in season but can't be the no 1 in the finals.

[ankle420breaker]

He's not an elite competitor but he played in the playoffs with a broken face and a destroyed shooting hand. Stop with the insanity. Just ridiculous hindsight going on with Embiid.

It's so absurd that the playing hurt thing matters less to people than body language. That's narcissism at work. "I think I can tell someone's competitive nature by watching facial expressions on TV!"

Spare me. I love Embiid, but showing up to a pivotal game 5 with a sulky, defeated attitude was a seismic disappointment. Being the man comes with standards and Joel is a habitual offender when it comes to abruptly abandoning his competitive fire amid a close playoff series. As a fan, you're allowed to be critical of that.




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Give me a break. "sulky defeated attitude" just might be a guy who was playing in incredible pain. We had no idea what he was feeling. And you're correlating the "attitude" with having a bad game when it may have been his physical condition. For all we know he still may have been dealing with lingering concussion symptoms. I love how getting on the court and competing when he could have easily just took the series off and not risked his eye sight or hand anymore than they were, no one would have knocked him... that doesn't count for competitiveness, but not playing well counts against him. No consistency whatsoever. It's just having an agenda.

Rich take coming from someone who recently posted that they barely even watch 76ers games anymore. Embiid dominated game 4, Nokic was promptly named MVP, Embiid shows up to game 5 uninspired. I'm probably more of a supporter and believer in Embiid than most. I still consider him the best prospect I've seen in the last 10 years (at least), which is why my disappointment is so heightened.

Injuries aside-- he didn't catch the ball in the paint once in game 5. In game 6, he was on the floor every time someone brushed by him. History proves you have to come out with swing first mentality. Nobody's giving away titles... you have to be the man who takes it. Injuries and all-- that's the standard that MVP caliber franchise players are held to. If you feel playing through injuries (which I'm not minimizing) is good enough, then we'll just have to agree that we view the game differently. No disrespect, our standards are just on different levels.

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[FireMorey]

Spare me. I love Embiid, but showing up to a pivotal game 5 with a sulky, defeated attitude was a seismic disappointment. Being the man comes with standards and Joel is a habitual offender when it comes to abruptly abandoning his competitive fire amid a close playoff series. As a fan, you're allowed to be critical of that.




Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

Give me a break. "sulky defeated attitude" just might be a guy who was playing in incredible pain. We had no idea what he was feeling. And you're correlating the "attitude" with having a bad game when it may have been his physical condition. For all we know he still may have been dealing with lingering concussion symptoms. I love how getting on the court and competing when he could have easily just took the series off and not risked his eye sight or hand anymore than they were, no one would have knocked him... that doesn't count for competitiveness, but not playing well counts against him. No consistency whatsoever. It's just having an agenda.

Rich take coming from someone who recently posted that they barely even watch 76ers games anymore. Embiid dominated game 4, Nokic was promptly named MVP, Embiid shows up to game 5 uninspired. I'm probably more of a supporter and believer in Embiid than most. I still consider him the best prospect I've seen in the last 10 years (at least), which is why my disappointment is so heightened.

Injuries aside-- he didn't catch the ball in the paint once in game 5. In game 6, he was on the floor every time someone brushed by him. History proves you have to come out with swing first mentality. Nobody's giving away titles... you have to be the man who takes it. Injuries and all-- that's the standard that MVP caliber franchise players are held to. If you feel playing through injuries (which I'm not minimizing) is good enough, then we'll just have to agree that we view the game differently. No disrespect, our standards are just on different levels.

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Never said that. Being disingenuous and making stuff up is no way to debate, c'mon now, be better. I took time off from watching the Sixers after Butler left, and don't care as much anymore, but once Harden arrived, I watched most games and every playoff game. Not that it has anything to do with the take, one has nothing to do with the other. The validity of it is well put.

It has nothing to do with being "good enough" it's just the reality. No player in the NBA brings it every night in the playoffs. Butler was not good in games 3, 4, and 5. I suppose that's ok though because he's known as a warrior and Embiid isn't, when neither have won a title. But the same consistency doesn't apply to Embiid. You can have whatever standards you want. But you don't apply them consistently. Embiid at least had the excuse of not being able to use his shooting hand and had a broken face where banging in the paint makes it dangerous because one bad shot to the face, if his orbital bone breaks more he could have permanent eyesight loss. Butler had "knee inflammation." And everyone went on and on about "omg look at Butler the warrior gutting it out with a sore knee" and with Embiid it's "Stop moping!" even though he's playing with far more serious ailments than Butler did.

People only apply these asinine rules to Embiid. When Curry plays like dog ****... crickets. When Durant has a bad game... crickets. Giannis has a bad game... crickets. Embiid: "not a warrior, stop sulking!"

[Arsenal]

Read on Twitter

?s

Perfect. I always liked Spo as a coach, and that quote alone raises my respect for him tenfold.

All-time great coach. Miami is such a great organization from Pat Riley on down.

[Arsenal]

Embiid was obviously impacted by his injuries in Round 2. Plus in Game 5 he took a shot to the face early and was in extreme pain. He was not anywhere close to his typical MVP level due to those injuries.

So if you want to criticize, the thing to criticize is his being injury-prone and therefore usually not being 100% in the playoffs.

[elchengue20]

I asked to trade Ben like 2 years before he got actually traded. It was obvious his fit with Embiid was never going to lead to winning Playoff basketball, plus he had some mayor personality issues which translated in lack of developement. Trading Ben for a haul was the better move for quite some time.

But i missed on Jimmy. I liked him but i was afraid of giving him a 5 year max at his age, giving he doesn't have elite size/athleticisim and isn't a great 3 point shooter. I was wrong, the guy just has the killer instinct like a few guys in the league have.


A team with Embiid+Jimmy, sourounded by an elite supporting cast built around the assets obtained in the Simmons trade would have 1 or 2 championships by now, at least. It really hurts to be a Sixers fan.

[Ferry Avenue]

Spare me. I love Embiid, but showing up to a pivotal game 5 with a sulky, defeated attitude was a seismic disappointment. Being the man comes with standards and Joel is a habitual offender when it comes to abruptly abandoning his competitive fire amid a close playoff series. As a fan, you're allowed to be critical of that.

And when you see what the opposite of that does for a team -- e.g., the driven, spirited play from Butler, Tatum, and others in this recent Celtics/Heat series -- you realize just what a ball and chain it is for the nucleus of your team to take the court in that manner. It essentially saps the team of exactly the ingredient it needs to be competitive at this level, the advanced stages of the playoffs.

If this continues the Sixers will never make it past the second round, I don't care who you put around Embiid and Harden, unless the players you surround them with can somehow form a nucleus themselves that then make Embiid/Harden the surrounding cytoplasm. You simply can't have the nucleus of your team functioning in a lethargic, downtrodden manner and expect to be competitive against teams with players of the ilk of Butler/Tatum/Curry when the NBA championship is at stake and those players and their teams are highly driven to win it.

You can get away with that garbage in the regular season because you're frequently playing teams with lesser talent who themselves may be lethargic on occasion for whatever reason, but in the playoffs that ain't working. It basically gets your ass embarrassed like the Sixers were in game 6.

Player leadership makes all the difference.

These leaders like Butler and Tatum basically took turns getting their asses embarrassed: that’s why it was a series of mostly blowouts.

Right, but at no time have any of them turned in something uninspired. The dog in players like Butler/Tatum/Curry is evident even when they have poor games and their teams lose because of it. That's inspiring, because their teammates know they're giving it their all and they can count on them as leaders and contributors who make a strong effort come rain or shine. Embiid and Harden on the other hand regularly lay eggs -- in terms of effort -- that are uninspiring and demoralizing.

[Murray_17]

double

[FireMorey]

Butler scored 13, 6, and 8 points in games 3,4,5. If Embiid had 3 crap games in a row he’d be labeled the biggest choker in playoff history because people have an agenda against him.

Those games count, but no one talks about it when it’s someone other than Embiid having a bad game.

And yeah, in game 7 Butler’s team was so inspired by his performance that only 2 players on the entire team showed up to play respectably.

[Murray_17]

Right, but at no time have any of them turned in something uninspired. The dog in players like Butler/Tatum/Curry is evident even when they have poor games and their teams lose because of it. That's inspiring, because their teammates know they're giving it their all and they can count on them as leaders and contributors who make a strong effort come rain or shine. Embiid and Harden on the other hand regularly lay eggs -- in terms of effort -- that are uninspiring and demoralizing.

You have to change your "dog players" so much is hilarious at this point.

Remember the time you were sure the team most likely to win the east was Brooklyn?

[Ferry Avenue]

Butler scored 13, 6, and 8 points in games 3,4,5. If Embiid had 3 crap games in a row he’d be labeled the biggest choker in playoff history because people have an agenda against him.

Those games count, but no one talks about it when it’s someone other than Embiid having a bad game.

And yeah, in game 7 Butler’s team was so inspired by his performance that only 2 players on the entire team showed up to play respectably.

There is a subtle distinction between drive/effort and production that you're not understanding or making.

There is certainly a difference between when Jimmy Butler scores 8 points and when Ben Simmons does, and make no mistake that difference is felt by the team.

Jimmy Butler's driven and inspired effort is felt by the team, despite his mere 8 points, and Ben Simmons's lackluster effort is likewise felt by the team.

[FireMorey]

Butler scored 13, 6, and 8 points in games 3,4,5. If Embiid had 3 crap games in a row he’d be labeled the biggest choker in playoff history because people have an agenda against him.

Those games count, but no one talks about it when it’s someone other than Embiid having a bad game.

And yeah, in game 7 Butler’s team was so inspired by his performance that only 2 players on the entire team showed up to play respectably.

There is a subtle distinction between drive/effort and production that you're not understanding or making.

There is certainly a difference between when Jimmy Butler scores 8 points and when Ben Simmons does, and make no mistake that difference is felt by the team.

Jimmy Butler's driven and inspired effort is felt by the team, despite his mere 8 points, and Ben Simmons's lackluster effort is likewise felt by the team.

lol you're just making this up as you go along. You don't have to keep doubling down on these takes. And the Heat got blown out in mulitple of those games, so to stay those efforts inspired the team isn't really based on anything. Anyone can just state anything as true, it doesn't mean it is.

[Ferry Avenue]

Butler scored 13, 6, and 8 points in games 3,4,5. If Embiid had 3 crap games in a row he’d be labeled the biggest choker in playoff history because people have an agenda against him.

Those games count, but no one talks about it when it’s someone other than Embiid having a bad game.

And yeah, in game 7 Butler’s team was so inspired by his performance that only 2 players on the entire team showed up to play respectably.

There is a subtle distinction between drive/effort and production that you're not understanding or making.

There is certainly a difference between when Jimmy Butler scores 8 points and when Ben Simmons does, and make no mistake that difference is felt by the team.

Jimmy Butler's driven and inspired effort is felt by the team, despite his mere 8 points, and Ben Simmons's lackluster effort is likewise felt by the team.

lol you're just making this up as you go along. You don't have to keep doubling down on these takes. And the Heat got blown out in mulitple of those games, so to stay those efforts inspired the team isn't really based on anything. Anyone can just state anything as true, it doesn't mean it is.

The take-home message is this: the NBA championship will never be won by a team whose player nucleus turns in regular lackluster efforts. It won't happen this year, and it won't happen ever.

And that means the Sixers won't win an NBA championship unless and until 1) Embiid and Harden change in that regard, or 2) the team replaces them with other players as its nucleus.

[mjkvol]

You guys who keep responding to and trying reason with this troll are essentially slamming your heads against a wall. His foolishness can never be proven or disproven in any tangible way. And since the goalposts are endlessly moving, he can never be wrong. In his own little world, anyway.

[AirP.]

Butler scored 13, 6, and 8 points in games 3,4,5. If Embiid had 3 crap games in a row he’d be labeled the biggest choker in playoff history because people have an agenda against him.

Those games count, but no one talks about it when it’s someone other than Embiid having a bad game.

And yeah, in game 7 Butler’s team was so inspired by his performance that only 2 players on the entire team showed up to play respectably.

It was reported during the playoffs that it was highly likely that Butler would have to have surgery on his knee after the season, so this is something he's been gutting himself through.

That 13 point game was where he only in the first half. It was reported that Butler argued with the team to play in the 2nd half but they were worried about his knee and I'm sure being up big early on had something to do with their decision to not let him play in the 2nd half.

The 6 and 8 point games he looked fine moving but the effort level was much lower, maybe he was trying to be available but couldn't do much, I don't know other then he looked different these 2 games then the rest of the series. He did have 4 40+ point playoff games this season and 30+ in 8 of his 17 playoff games.

Game 6, and this was from the Boston Celtics side for game 7 that Butler actually took multiple shots to his knees before game 6 so I expect he did the same thing for game 7 hence his ability to play with much more effort those games but may have done more damage to that knee. If you didn't notice, PJ Tucker only played 3 minutes in the 2nd half, he was too injured to keep going(but this was Miami's fault for not acquiring a younger backup for a 37 year old).

Miami was playing with a bunch of injuries where players shouldn't of been playing but part of that is on the Heat for adding older players like Lowry and Tucker. Miami had been looking for a backup or future starter at PF at the deadline in Rui Hachimura, PJ Washington or N.Batum and balked at making that trade to make sure they had a viable option behind 36 year old(at that time) PJ Tucker a decision that probably cost Miami a trip to the Finals. They're a well run organization but for some reason cheap out on making moves with assets and then have no problem overpaying fringe players like handing out 90 over 5 years to D.Robinson who had great season then one OK season for a 1 dimensional player.

I had wished Philly would have switched over to building around Embiid and Butler instead of Embiid and Simmons, there would have been at least 1 Finals run from that duo by now and probably a championship. Embiid needs a triple threat teammate for 4th quarters, hopefully for Philly Harden's issue was just a lingering injury and we'll see more Philly Miami playoff battles in the next 2-3 years.