2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[RCM88x]

Al Horford has been unappreciated for too long

I think GS will figure things out offensively, and Boston's shooting isn't sustainable either. The 13 assists from Tatum is pretty crazy too, really grown as a playmaker in these playoffs.

[Peregrine01]

I don’t see the Warriors winning this unless Draymond becomes respectable on offense.

[cpower]

Klay and Poole are really bad...i mean they are definitely not playing like NBA starters. If they cant produce anything might as well play GP2 if he is available.

[GSP]

I love Draymond but he’s an offensive liability at this point. Teams figured that they just don’t have to guard him anymore.

Pretty much.

Horford has been basically 2015-2016 Green in the playoffs with a 3pt arsenal.

He's been insane in the playoffs.

Draymond used to have a 3pt arsenal tho in those years

[TheGOATRises007]

I love Draymond but he’s an offensive liability at this point. Teams figured that they just don’t have to guard him anymore.

Pretty much.

Horford has been basically 2015-2016 Green in the playoffs with a 3pt arsenal.

He's been insane in the playoffs.

Draymond used to have a 3pt arsenal tho in those years

He did, but he never shot like Horford has in the playoffs thus far.

[jalengreen]

Could be poor memory but I feel like Horford's on another level shooting-wise than even Draymond was (not just because he had a crazy hot game, obviously Dray was capable of those.. cough G7). I feel like he's just defended differently

[falcolombardi]

every game i am thinking more and more horford may be a better player now than draymond

i am overreacting?

[Fadeaway_J]

Could be poor memory but I feel like Horford's on another level shooting-wise than even Draymond was (not just because he had a crazy hot game, obviously Dray was capable of those.. cough G7). I feel like he's just defended differently

Horford has a much longer track record of being a good (and willing) outside shooter than Draymond did.

[yoyoboy]

Al Horford has been unappreciated for too long

I think GS will figure things out offensively, and Boston's shooting isn't sustainable either. The 13 assists from Tatum is pretty crazy too, really grown as a playmaker in these playoffs.

I had a whole post praising Horford calling him Boston's most valuable player in 2018, even ahead of Kyrie, and caught a lot of flack for it in the comments.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1703243&hilit=horford

I've been a big believer in him for so long and I'm happy to see him having so much success in this postseason.

[LesGrossman]

Lets not overreact. Boston played great and GSW outside of Steph (who lost his shoe and twisted his ankle) were awful and it still took a crazy run of White and Horford threes to catch up and get past them. DO you think Celtics will play like that every game? I still have the Warriors in six or seven

[falcolombardi]

while i expected celtics to lose after the third quarter i have to say i was expecting warriors to take a reality hit in the first two of this series

they were starting to act like cocky favorites ans draymond bringing again the lavar esque "nevah lost"(tm)

it felt like they were due to be punched in the mouth although i didnt expect it to be like this

now they need to re focus and approach game 2 as a game 7 (it almost is one regardless)

[jalengreen]

every game i am thinking more and more horford may be a better player now than draymond

i am overreacting?

like i said in previous discussion i think dray's postseason has been overrated (as high as i am on him in general), part of why i put horford over him for all-playoff team

as for who is better... i think it's close enough that it's not an overreaction to say one's better. i think stepping back and assessing i'd say that draymond's a superior defender and horford's a superior offensive player. but the gap defensively is certainly smaller than the offensive gap (even if you think horford's playoff 3pt shooting is an abberation)

[jalengreen]

i expect this series to be tied 2-2 after game 4. so hard to imagine the warriors going down 0-2 at home and i dont think the celtics will win both home games.

i do really like what i saw from the celtics defense though at times and i'm confident in their ability to hold up against the warriors. the question will still be what level of offensive production they get

obviously the hot shooting helped them win. tatum's scoring production was awful (12 on 3/17) but his playmaking was strong. don't fully remember who the primary defenders were, will need to check matchup data, but i think the warriors will need to bring GP2 in for game two (assuming he's healthy as the reports have suggested) and have him guard JB. tatum has been inconsistent all postseason but you gotta expect his scoring to improve

[falcolombardi]

boston just changed the whole narrative for the series in a quarter, kinda like bucks did in their game 1 vs celtics themselves (although that didnt end well for bucks)

[Dr Positivity]

Obviously a bad sign for them to lose when Curry came out like that and the Warriors were in classic double digit lead frontrunner mode. Warriors defense needs to win this series. I think Tatum will have less defensive attention on him and the other players will have more on them going forward. Poole is the key swing player of the series.

every game i am thinking more and more horford may be a better player now than draymond

i am overreacting?

like i said in previous discussion i think dray's postseason has been overrated (as high as i am on him in general), part of why i put horford over him for all-playoff team

as for who is better... i think it's close enough that it's not an overreaction to say one's better. i think stepping back and assessing i'd say that draymond's a superior defender and horford's a superior offensive player. but the gap defensively is certainly smaller than the offensive gap (even if you think horford's playoff 3pt shooting is an abberation)

I don't know if I'd agree that Draymond is still better on D than rejuvenated Horford. I was struck in the Mavs series that Looney looked like their best defensive perimeter big.

[jalengreen]

Obviously a bad sign for them to lose when Curry came out like that and the Warriors were in classic double digit lead frontrunner mode. I think Tatum will have less defensive attention on him and the other players will have more on them going forward.

every game i am thinking more and more horford may be a better player now than draymond

i am overreacting?

like i said in previous discussion i think dray's postseason has been overrated (as high as i am on him in general), part of why i put horford over him for all-playoff team

as for who is better... i think it's close enough that it's not an overreaction to say one's better. i think stepping back and assessing i'd say that draymond's a superior defender and horford's a superior offensive player. but the gap defensively is certainly smaller than the offensive gap (even if you think horford's playoff 3pt shooting is an abberation)

I don't know if I'd agree that Draymond is still better on D. I was struck in the Mavs series how much putting on Looney instead of Draymond was a good idea for GSW defensively.

i think it's reasonable to say that horford's a better defender. after all, he's IMO had a better postseason than draymond. however i'm very high on draymond's defensive regular season and think he'd be my clear DPOY pick if not for injury, so for the time being i'm sticking with him despite the postseason. i do think from the eye test that draymond has underperformed in the postseason, not sure how that holds up statistically

[falcolombardi]

Obviously a bad sign for them to lose when Curry came out like that and the Warriors were in classic double digit lead frontrunner mode. I think Tatum will have less defensive attention on him and the other players will have more on them going forward.

like i said in previous discussion i think dray's postseason has been overrated (as high as i am on him in general), part of why i put horford over him for all-playoff team

as for who is better... i think it's close enough that it's not an overreaction to say one's better. i think stepping back and assessing i'd say that draymond's a superior defender and horford's a superior offensive player. but the gap defensively is certainly smaller than the offensive gap (even if you think horford's playoff 3pt shooting is an abberation)

I don't know if I'd agree that Draymond is still better on D. I was struck in the Mavs series how much putting on Looney instead of Draymond was a good idea for GSW defensively.

i think it's reasonable to say that horford's a better defender. after all, he's IMO had a better postseason than draymond. however i'm very high on draymond's defensive regular season and think he'd be my clear DPOY pick if not for injury, so for the time being i'm sticking with him despite the postseason. i do think from the eye test that draymond has underperformed in the postseason, not sure how that holds up statistically

i have not felt like he is much worse defensively

but man is his offense being weak, is impressive warriors have had a strong offense despite draymond struggles with the ball

wonder what kerr does next game tactically when celtics just ignore draymond

[jalengreen]

Obviously a bad sign for them to lose when Curry came out like that and the Warriors were in classic double digit lead frontrunner mode. I think Tatum will have less defensive attention on him and the other players will have more on them going forward.



I don't know if I'd agree that Draymond is still better on D. I was struck in the Mavs series how much putting on Looney instead of Draymond was a good idea for GSW defensively.

i think it's reasonable to say that horford's a better defender. after all, he's IMO had a better postseason than draymond. however i'm very high on draymond's defensive regular season and think he'd be my clear DPOY pick if not for injury, so for the time being i'm sticking with him despite the postseason. i do think from the eye test that draymond has underperformed in the postseason, not sure how that holds up statistically

i have not felt like he is much worse defensively

but man is his offense being weak, is impressive warriors have had a strong offense despite draymond struggles with the ball

wonder what kerr does next game tactically when celtics just ignore draymond

thought he defended jokic well in r1 but wasnt as impressed with his defense against the grizzlies (or today for that matter)

[GSP]

Al Horford has been unappreciated for too long

I think GS will figure things out offensively, and Boston's shooting isn't sustainable either. The 13 assists from Tatum is pretty crazy too, really grown as a playmaker in these playoffs.

TBH he took the jump as a playmaker in the bubble

he just has much better shooters around him now including lineups where all 4 guys can hit open 3s (Jaylen, Smart, White, Horford, Grant, Pritchard)

Grant didnt emerge yet in 20. We were still playing Kanter, Theis, Semi who cant shoot 3s. Our big man rotation was dire before Williams started hitting stride and Brad brought Al back. Kemba also couldnt shoot spotup 3s only made them off dribble/screens and he was looking cooked anyways. And it was all made worse b/c Hayward got hurt in the 1st game of the playoffs so our shooting wasnt close to what we have now

Jayson is prolly better reading defenses now than in the bubble but any assist total differences are mostly due to much better shooting around him now. He took a jump as a great playmaker in the bubble

Read on Twitter

i agree with Nate here. Jaylen really saved us and showed a level of onball creation he never has at that consistent level.......for such an important stretch

[Dr Positivity]

Since Russell first title (65 seasons) about 20% of them of them have had a Tatum level star or worse by my count (12-13). That's putting him in the zone of guys like Reed, Cowens, Barry, and Hayes in my book ("not a Jordan, but not a 04 Billups"), yes those are some great players and ones like Reed and Cowens have MVPs but Tatum is 1st team All NBA so he is still pretty credible star. Half of them are in the 70s but I think people also underestimate how much chance has played a role in the superstar dominance from 1980-now just like the 70s having less was also probably chance. There could have been some titles like 2002 Kings or a Blazers Pacers finals in 2000. Or for example in the 90s the Sonics just peaked one year too late, if they had their best playoff run in 94 or 95 they could have snuck one in before Jordan. The Blazers with Drexler would be another team with bad luck competition wise that if the seas parted a bit more possibly could have been a champion. There should be more champions with players on Tatum's level, it's just there was a bit of a streak for a while of either undisputed superstars or teams with obviously no superstar like the Pistons and nothing in the middle. They were many contenders over that time period who fit that description but they all lost at a a level that will probably balance out over time. The current Heat and Suns can also be encouraged for that reason that they have a shot.