Playoffs only: 1993 MJ vs 2000 Shaq vs 2003 Duncan?

[WestGOAT]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

[Cavsfansince84]

I'd say Shaq/Duncan then MJ. MJ was sort of erratic in those playoffs outside of the finals where he turned it up to full blast.

[No-more-rings]

93 MJ is probably a tier below the other 2.

[homecourtloss]

Shaq/Duncan 1a and 1b

Gap

Jordan ‘93

[Frosty]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

Carried the load on offense is a bit of a stretch for a guy that only lead his team in scoring 58% of the playoff games.

[falcolombardi]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

Carried the load on offense is a bit of a stretch for a guy that only lead his team in scoring 58% of the playoff games.

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

[Frosty]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

Carried the load on offense is a bit of a stretch for a guy that only lead his team in scoring 58% of the playoff games.

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

[70sFan]

Carried the load on offense is a bit of a stretch for a guy that only lead his team in scoring 58% of the playoff games.

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

[Frosty]

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

I know, Duncan's value is never measurable like other players.... Are we really at the point where we just want to discount the obvious offensive metrics that basically anyone would assume to be of value in such a discussion. (and then toss in a meaningless reference to Magic like it makes a point about another player in a specific year, there were years I wouldn't say Magic carried the team offensively either).

This is basically like me claiming Shaq carried LA in 2000 when Kobe was often leading the scoring, I doubt people wouldn't react to that.

[LAL1947]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

What do you mean by Duncan carried the load on defense? That Spurs team was filled with top notch defensive players. For example, against the Lakers... they had Bruce Bowen, Stephen Jackson and Manu Ginobili taking turns on Kobe... David Robinson and Malik Rose taking turns on Shaq. Derek Fisher, Devean George and Robert Horry were scrubs... and Duncan's assignment of guarding Robert Hobblin' Horry was the easiest, so he was left free to help on defense where it was needed. So Duncan had an important role to play in their defense but I definitely wouldn't call it "carrying the load" on defense.

[70sFan]

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

I know, Duncan's value is never measurable like other players.... Are we really at the point where we just want to discount the obvious offensive metrics that basically anyone would assume to be of value in such a discussion. (and then toss in a meaningless reference to Magic like it makes a point about another player in a specific year, there were years I wouldn't say Magic carried the team offensively either).

This is basically like me claiming Shaq carried LA in 2000 when Kobe was often leading the scoring, I doubt people wouldn't react to that.

Shaq definitely carried Lakers offense in 2000.

[WestGOAT]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

What do you mean by Duncan carried the load on defense? That Spurs team was filled with top notch defensive players. For example, against the Lakers... they had Bruce Bowen, Stephen Jackson and Manu Ginobili taking turns on Kobe... David Robinson and Malik Rose taking turns on Shaq. Derek Fisher, Devean George and Robert Horry were scrubs... and Duncan's assignment of guarding Robert Hobblin' Horry was the easiest, so he was left free to help on defense where it was needed. So Duncan had an important role to play in their defense but I definitely wouldn't call it "carrying the load" on defense.

I think it's fair to say Duncan was the defensive anchor for the Spurs. He played the most minutes in the PS and Spurs were -7.8 on defense when he was on the court. Only Ginobili was better with -16.5, but he played less than twice as minutes as Duncan (~1400 vs ~3100 for Duncan). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of his playing time coincided with Duncan on the floor.

That said I do agree that defence is more reliant on the overall team and coaching than offence driven by individual brilliance.

[LAL1947]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

What do you mean by Duncan carried the load on defense? That Spurs team was filled with top notch defensive players. For example, against the Lakers... they had Bruce Bowen, Stephen Jackson and Manu Ginobili taking turns on Kobe... David Robinson and Malik Rose taking turns on Shaq. Derek Fisher, Devean George and Robert Horry were scrubs... and Duncan's assignment of guarding Robert Hobblin' Horry was the easiest, so he was left free to help on defense where it was needed. So Duncan had an important role to play in their defense but I definitely wouldn't call it "carrying the load" on defense.

I think it's fair to say Duncan was the defensive anchor for the Spurs. He played the most minutes in the PS and Spurs were -7.8 on defense when he was on the court. Only Ginobili was better with -16.5, but he played less than twice as minutes as Duncan (~1400 vs ~3100 for Duncan). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of his playing time coincided with Duncan on the floor.

That said I do agree that defence is more reliant on the overall team and coaching than offence driven by individual brilliance.

Okay, so let's agree that Duncan was the defensive anchor. My point is simply this...

Being the defensive anchor on a team with so many good defensive players who also played well defensively does not equal "carrying the load defensively".

[Bergmaniac]

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

I know, Duncan's value is never measurable like other players.... Are we really at the point where we just want to discount the obvious offensive metrics that basically anyone would assume to be of value in such a discussion. (and then toss in a meaningless reference to Magic like it makes a point about another player in a specific year, there were years I wouldn't say Magic carried the team offensively either).

This is basically like me claiming Shaq carried LA in 2000 when Kobe was often leading the scoring, I doubt people wouldn't react to that.

Offense isn't just scoring. Duncan led his team in assists in the playoffs and the whole offensive strategy of his team was based on his ability to draw double teams. He also averaged 4 offensive boards per game.

[falcolombardi]

Carried the load on offense is a bit of a stretch for a guy that only lead his team in scoring 58% of the playoff games.

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

if one dude does most of the work over half the time then that means the other 4 starters and bench combined do it less than half the time

[LAL1947]

Who you got for these title-runs?

1993 MJ arguably the biggest offensive carryjob ever
2000 Shaq probably one of the most dominant ever
2003 Duncan arguably bigger carryjob than MJ as he carried the load on both offense and defense

I got Jordan... then Shaq... then Duncan.

how is that not carrying the scoring load?

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

Imagine trying to draw parallels between Magic Johnson carrying the load on offense as the Point Guard... with Tim Duncan... and then doing it while sitting up on a high-horse.

[70sFan]

You and I have a different opinion on "carrying the load" imagine working with someone that does most of the work just over 50% of the time and tells you he's carrying you.

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

Imagine trying to draw parallels between Magic Johnson carrying the load on offense as the Point Guard... with Tim Duncan... and then doing it while sitting up on a high-horse.

It's not Magic/Duncan comparison on offense. It was an attempt to show how misleading judging a load on scoring alone can be.

Are you doing this on purpose?

[Homer38]

Duncan had 5.3 assist per game in 24 playoffs game in 2003.Over 5 assist per game for a big man,this is huge especially at this era with so many low scoring game

[LAL1947]

Imagine thinking that raw scoring numbers tells who carries the load on offense. I guess Magic never carried Lakers on offense as well?

Imagine trying to draw parallels between Magic Johnson carrying the load on offense as the Point Guard... with Tim Duncan... and then doing it while sitting up on a high-horse.

It's not Magic/Duncan comparison on offense. It was an attempt to show how misleading judging a load on scoring alone can be.

Are you doing this on purpose?

Doing what on purpose?

I understand that we cannot judge "carrying the load" on scoring alone. When we say he did not carry the load on offense in a manner similar to MJ or Magic (since you've brought him up), try to understand why we're saying this... it's because he played within a system and the system generated most of his offensive opportunities, he did not have to create them by himself. Well, he could and did create some of his own offense... but not to the same extent as those two. So my issue here is that you are overreaching with the comparison of what Duncan did.

[Bergmaniac]

The "system" of the Spurs back then was mostly "Give the ball to Duncan and have him create for himself or others". They were a very different team stylewise in 2003 compared to let's say 2014.