Can LBJ's achievements be split to two top 15 players

dygaction · Post #1 » by **dygaction** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 8:23 pm

2× NBA champion
2× NBA Finals MVP
5x NBA Finals appearances
2× NBA Most Valuable Player
9× NBA All-Star
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP
6× All-NBA First
2× All-NBA Second Team
1× All-NBA Third Team
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team
NBA All-Defensive Second Team
Peaked at MVP/FMVP/Championship/First all-nba/First all-defense

__________________________________________
4× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016, 2020)
4× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016, 2020)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
18× NBA All-Star (2005–2022)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008, 2018)
13× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018, 2020)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007, 2021)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2019, 2022)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)

Homer38 · Post #2 » by **Homer38** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 8:37 pm

He was considered as a top 15 players after the 2012 season.Since 2013,he won 1 MVP,3 titles and 3 FMVP and make the finals 7 times.So I think this is very possible

Dr Positivity · Post #3 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 8:48 pm

I'd have voted no for top 10, but for top 15 I think he can make it.

70sFan · Post #4 » by **70sFan** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 8:53 pm

2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

dygaction · Post #5 » by **dygaction** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 9:37 pm

70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

I was more talking about achievements split not time split. MJ should also be enough to do that despite short of longevity.

Half MJ:

3× NBA champion
3× NBA Finals MVP
2× NBA Most Valuable Player
7× NBA All-Star
2x NBA All-Star Game MVP
5× All-NBA First Team
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (counter the .5 MVP)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team
5× NBA scoring champion
1× NBA steals leader
1× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion

homecourtloss · Post #6 » by **homecourtloss** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 9:55 pm

70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

Not that win shares are definitive of anything, but for a quick and easy comparison, Kareem’s 1970–1979 win share aggregate would put him 16th all time ABA/NBA (if we remove career Kareem from the list). His 1980-1989 aggregate wouls put him in the top 100. Playoffs win shares would be top 32-33 for both the 1970-1979 period and 1980-1989 periods. James’s splits would be top 7 and top 10 in playoffs wins shares, 23rd and 97th in regular season win shares. These are two remarkable longevities.

LAL1947 · Post #7 » by **LAL1947** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 10:23 pm

70sFan wrote:2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

2008-2016 Duncan wouldn't even be Top 75. How would he be, when Klay Thompson didn't make the Top 75?

GSP · Post #8 » by **GSP** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 11:09 pm

Yes basically like Tom Brady or Jerry Rice

falcolombardi · Post #9 » by **falcolombardi** » Sun Jun 5, 2022 11:45 pm

LAL1947 wrote:
70sFan wrote:2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

2008-2016 Duncan wouldn't even be Top 75. How would he when Klay Thompson didn't make the Top 75?

by being better

2013 duncan > any year of klay

dygaction · Post #10 » by **dygaction** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 6:05 am

falcolombardi wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
70sFan wrote:2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

2008-2016 Duncan wouldn't even be Top 75. How would he when Klay Thompson didn't make the Top 75?

by being better

2013 duncan > any year of klay

TD from 08-16:
1x championship
2x all star
1x first team
2x 2nd team
1x 3rd team
1x 1st all-D
4x 2nd all-D

Not a top 50 CV.

Jaivl · Post #11 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 7:14 am

falcolombardi wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
70sFan wrote:2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

2008-2016 Duncan wouldn't even be Top 75. How would he when Klay Thompson didn't make the Top 75?

by being better

2013 duncan > any year of klay

At this point no-handles Mitch Richmond has to be one of the most overrated players in history for the casual fan.

70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

Eh I'm not sure what makes 08-16 Duncan better than Anthony Davis, who's not top 60 for me.

70sFan · Post #12 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 7:39 am

Jaivl wrote:Eh I'm not sure what makes 08-16 Duncan better than Anthony Davis, who's not top 60 for me.

I agree, I didn't think too much about it. 2008-16 Duncan would be closer to top 75 than top 30.

ardee · Post #13 » by **ardee** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 10:02 am

70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

LeBron was already top 10 pretty easily by 2013. He finished 7th in the top 100 project from 2014. I think it was a very fair result. He basically had a pretty close approximation of Jordan's career post his first retirement, and I think MJ still has a top 5 case after '93.

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 10:12 am

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

LeBron was already top 10 pretty easily by 2013. He finished 7th in the top 100 project from 2014. I think it was a very fair result. He basically had a pretty close approximation of Jordan's career post his first retirement, and I think MJ still has a top 5 case after '93.

I am more of longevity guy, so I'm not sure I'd agree.

ardee · Post #15 » by **ardee** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 10:17 am

70sFan wrote:
ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:2004-13 is definitely top 15 player ever and 2014-22 probably also is in that range, so I'd say yes.

The only other player you can do the same thing with is probably Kareem with 1970-79 and 1980-89, I don't think any other player will reach even top 20. 2008-16 Duncan wouldn't be top 20 player for example, probably not even top 30.

LeBron was already top 10 pretty easily by 2013. He finished 7th in the top 100 project from 2014. I think it was a very fair result. He basically had a pretty close approximation of Jordan's career post his first retirement, and I think MJ still has a top 5 case after '93.

I am more of longevity guy, so I'm not sure I'd agree.

I consider total career value, so longevity plays a part, but I won't pick the guy who has 12 +5 seasons over the guy who has 7 +9 seasons. So I suppose we just value those seasons differently, which is fine.

But to me, 2009-13 LeBron was stupid dominant, only Jordan and Wilt have comparable 5 year stretches in my mind. That gives him enough value to get into the top 10 by that point (and then ironically after that, his next 5 years can be considered even more dominant...)

70sFan · Post #16 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 6, 2022 10:40 am

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:
ardee wrote:
LeBron was already top 10 pretty easily by 2013. He finished 7th in the top 100 project from 2014. I think it was a very fair result. He basically had a pretty close approximation of Jordan's career post his first retirement, and I think MJ still has a top 5 case after '93.

I am more of longevity guy, so I'm not sure I'd agree.

I consider total career value, so longevity plays a part, but I won't pick the guy who has 12 +5 seasons over the guy who has 7 +9 seasons. So I suppose we just value those seasons differently, which is fine.

But to me, 2009-13 LeBron was stupid dominant, only Jordan and Wilt have comparable 5 year stretches in my mind. That gives him enough value to get into the top 10 by that point (and then ironically after that, his next 5 years can be considered even more dominant...)

I think there are more 5 years seasons comparable (Kareem, Russell mostly), but I view 2004-13 similar to 1980-90 Bird. I'd have James a bit higher, but not by much. I don't have Bird in my top 10 though.

I think it would be fair, but not very clearly.