2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Colbinii]

That's just uncalled for, Dray just can't help himself.

It was called for. The reported asked him a question about Steph and KD.

[eminence]

That's just uncalled for, Dray just can't help himself.

It was called for. The reported asked him a question about Steph and KD.

I saw the presser, and for most people that'd be pretty easy to answer with a bit more tact. Just cut KD from the response - 'Our offense starts with Steph and has always started with Steph'

[sp6r=underrated]

Technical Fouls

Javie acknowledged last night refs take the first into account. This to me means the rule is broken. The purpose of the rule is to discourage players from engaging in behavior. If players, and especially stars, know the NBA won't follow through the deterrant is BS.

The NBA really needs to re-assess its Technical rules

1. Eliminate the 2 technical auto-ejection rule: let's face it Refs are unwilling to eject star players, witness the disgraceful Booker non-call last year. Eliminate the 2 technical rule and tell players that the refs will have zero tolerance for yelling and will hand out Ts like they do personal fouls.

2. Keep it and enforce it: The NBA should tell the players at the beginning of the year, Refs have been told to toss players for yelling and will stand by them for it. And for a month the NBA will get bad press as marquees players are getting tossed. But players will adjust just as players adjusted to the 2005 rule changes that completely changed defense.

3. Keep it as is: if you don't think it is problem this is your option.


I dislike option 3. The NBA is abnormal in the amount of chronic whining players do in plays. There is much more whining in the NBA than NFL/MLB and those sports are stop/start which gives the players an opportunity to whine. NBA players berate refs when the game is on going. I hate watching it. It detracts from my enjoyment as a viewer.

The NBA has zero tolerance for players taunting players which doesn't annoy many fans but allows players yelling at refs, which almost no fans enjoy.

[Outside]

I don't think Klay is playing that much worse than he used to tbh. He's not quite as efficient and he seems to have lost a step defensively but overall this is just who Klay has always been, a very effective role player who got treated like a star because he scored a lot of good teams.

He's shooting 38.4 TS% in the finals so far. He's eighth on the team in total game score. This is much worse than he used to be.

As I've told people before, go watch his 2019 PS, particularly the finals. He wasn't Curry-level, but he was great before he tore his ACL. If he didn't get hurt in game 6, they had a decent shot to come back and win the series, even without Durant.

He just started playing in January. Players usually take a year after resuming play to get back what they're going to get back after either of the injuries he had.

[Dutchball97]

I don't think Klay is playing that much worse than he used to tbh. He's not quite as efficient and he seems to have lost a step defensively but overall this is just who Klay has always been, a very effective role player who got treated like a star because he scored a lot of good teams.

He's shooting 38.4 TS% in the finals so far. He's eighth on the team in total game score. This is much worse than he used to be.

As I've told people before, go watch his 2019 PS, particularly the finals. He wasn't Curry-level, but he was great before he tore his ACL. If he didn't get hurt in game 6, they had a decent shot to come back and win the series, even without Durant.

He just started playing in January. Players usually take a year after resuming play to get back what they're going to get back after either of the injuries he had.

I was referring to his form in the regular season and play-offs as a whole. I'd say he was noticeably better in 2015 and 2016 (although still a fringe All-Star at best) but any seasons earlier or later than that and I don't see much of a difference with 2022. If we're just talking about these finals then yeah of course he's worse than before. He was pretty forgettable in game 1 and straight up really bad in game 2 but if he has one or two good games in the series it's really not that different from his usual ways.

[Colbinii]

I don't think Klay is playing that much worse than he used to tbh. He's not quite as efficient and he seems to have lost a step defensively but overall this is just who Klay has always been, a very effective role player who got treated like a star because he scored a lot of good teams.

He's shooting 38.4 TS% in the finals so far. He's eighth on the team in total game score. This is much worse than he used to be.

As I've told people before, go watch his 2019 PS, particularly the finals. He wasn't Curry-level, but he was great before he tore his ACL. If he didn't get hurt in game 6, they had a decent shot to come back and win the series, even without Durant.

He just started playing in January. Players usually take a year after resuming play to get back what they're going to get back after either of the injuries he had.

Klay has done similar outputs before.

Game 3 and 4 of 2018 NBA Finals: 10/5/1 on 47 TS%

Game 4 of WCF and 1 of 2017 NBA Finals: 26 TS%

Game 3 and 4 of WCSF and Game 1 of 2017 WCF: 41.8 TS%

[Peregrine01]

One big thing I've noticed is that the Warriors have simply stopped running their motion sets when they go on their 3rd quarter runs. It's been almost exclusively Curry on-ball and high screen-roll. It's the only thing that's working against this Celtics half-court defense.

[parsnips33]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

[Colbinii]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

If they are breaking the rules--yes.

[parsnips33]

Klay has become the most underrated player on this board by a mile

If what he did in his prime (extremely high efficiency high volume 3 point shooting and combo of speed/size to effectively guard all threats 1-3) is so common, we'd see a bunch of other players do it right?

[sp6r=underrated]

I don't think Klay is playing that much worse than he used to tbh. He's not quite as efficient and he seems to have lost a step defensively but overall this is just who Klay has always been, a very effective role player who got treated like a star because he scored a lot of good teams.

He's shooting 38.4 TS% in the finals so far. He's eighth on the team in total game score. This is much worse than he used to be.

As I've told people before, go watch his 2019 PS, particularly the finals. He wasn't Curry-level, but he was great before he tore his ACL. If he didn't get hurt in game 6, they had a decent shot to come back and win the series, even without Durant.

He just started playing in January. Players usually take a year after resuming play to get back what they're going to get back after either of the injuries he had.

I agree but I'm skeptical he'll ever come back to form, at least on defense. I hope I'm wrong.

[parsnips33]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

If they are breaking the rules--yes.

You don't think there's any room for discretion? I don't want to see refs throwing anybody, star or not, out of games for technicalities, I'd rather them impact the game as little as possible while maintaining order

[sp6r=underrated]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

My position is below. The NBA technical foul system is broken. It is designed to get players to stop complaining to refs but it is also clear the NBA is unwilling to eject players for complaining to refs. Players have figures this out so in the playoffs we are subjected to non-stop ref whining. This also trickle down to fans. Game threads on this board are unreadable because everyone complains about the refs. And a lot of fans take the cue from the players. That means either:

1. Eliminate the 2 technical auto-ejection rule: let's face it Refs are unwilling to eject star players, witness the disgraceful Booker non-call last year. Eliminate the 2 technical rule and tell players that the refs will have zero tolerance for yelling and will hand out Ts like they do personal fouls.

2. Keep it and enforce it: The NBA should tell the players at the beginning of the year, Refs have been told to toss players for yelling and will stand by them for it. And for a month the NBA will get bad press as marquees players are getting tossed. But players will adjust just as players adjusted to the 2005 rule changes that completely changed defense.



3. Keep it as is: if you don't think it is problem this is your option. But then the NBA has to apply the Dray standard to everyone. And that means you're going to have guys screaming at refs on both teams all game long, on every play. I think that sucks but that is the only fair standard if you aren't going to adopt 1 or 2.

[Fadeaway_J]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

If they are breaking the rules--yes.

You don't think there's any room for discretion? I don't want to see refs throwing anybody, star or not, out of games for technicalities, I'd rather them impact the game as little as possible while maintaining order

The problem is that the "discretion" for Draymond skews way too heavily in the other direction.

[parsnips33]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

My position is below. The NBA technical foul system is broken. It is designed to get players to stop complaining to refs but it is also clear the NBA is unwilling to eject players for complaining to refs. Players have figures this out so in the playoffs we are subjected to non-stop ref whining. This also trickle down to fans. Game threads on this board are unreadable because everyone complains about the refs. And a lot of fans take the cue from the players. That means either:

1. Eliminate the 2 technical auto-ejection rule: let's face it Refs are unwilling to eject star players, witness the disgraceful Booker non-call last year. Eliminate the 2 technical rule and tell players that the refs will have zero tolerance for yelling and will hand out Ts like they do personal fouls.

2. Keep it and enforce it: The NBA should tell the players at the beginning of the year, Refs have been told to toss players for yelling and will stand by them for it. And for a month the NBA will get bad press as marquees players are getting tossed. But players will adjust just as players adjusted to the 2005 rule changes that completely changed defense.



3. Keep it as is: if you don't think it is problem this is your option. But then the NBA has to apply the Dray standard to everyone. And that means you're going to have guys screaming at refs on both teams all game long, on every play. I think that sucks but that is the only fair standard if you aren't going to adopt 1 or 2.

Honestly kinda like option one here. Maybe even up it to 2 technical free throws after the 2nd tech. That should be enough of a penalty without taking a guy out of play

[Colbinii]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

If they are breaking the rules--yes.

You don't think there's any room for discretion? I don't want to see refs throwing anybody, star or not, out of games for technicalities, I'd rather them impact the game as little as possible while maintaining order

I think if a player isn't able to follow simple rules then they should be thrown out [since those are the current rules]. I'm personally not a fan of "treat the referee like **** all game" methodology players like Draymond Green employ.

If we want to change the rules regarding technicalities, then we should change the rules. If we aren't holding every player [specifically stars] to the same standards as other players, then there is an inherit flaw to the integrity of the game and it raises questions regarding the legitimacy of certain players. But, since the rules are the way they currently are, the NBA should follow the current written rules.

An example of this was the KD to 73-win Warriors. The main culprit was using all the increased revenue to increase the cap by an enormous amount in one off-season. The NBA addressed this issue and will instead be inflating the cap over X amount of years when the new TV deal hits rather than 1 large increase.

[parsnips33]

If they are breaking the rules--yes.

You don't think there's any room for discretion? I don't want to see refs throwing anybody, star or not, out of games for technicalities, I'd rather them impact the game as little as possible while maintaining order

The problem is that the "discretion" for Draymond skews way too heavily in the other direction.

He was thrown out of a game as recently as Memphis for a play that probably should have been just a flagrant 1.

I agree that guys with a long defensive reputation (Draymond, Beverly, Smart) get leeway from refs just the same way that guys like Harden or Trae Young do. But that's part of refs just being human I think

[falcolombardi]

Klay has become the most underrated player on this board by a mile

If what he did in his prime (extremely high efficiency high volume 3 point shooting and combo of speed/size to effectively guard all threats 1-3) is so common, we'd see a bunch of other players do it right?

in my defense i have always been low on klay

excellent player, but i dont think he ever was a capital S star imo

[parsnips33]

Klay has become the most underrated player on this board by a mile

If what he did in his prime (extremely high efficiency high volume 3 point shooting and combo of speed/size to effectively guard all threats 1-3) is so common, we'd see a bunch of other players do it right?

in my defense i have always been low on klay

excellent player, but i dont think he ever was a capital S star imo

I think that's defensible, but you'd think he was Danny Green the way some of the conversations go

Maybe I'm being too sensitive

[sp6r=underrated]

Do people actually want star players thrown out of important playoff games?

My position is below. The NBA technical foul system is broken. It is designed to get players to stop complaining to refs but it is also clear the NBA is unwilling to eject players for complaining to refs. Players have figures this out so in the playoffs we are subjected to non-stop ref whining. This also trickle down to fans. Game threads on this board are unreadable because everyone complains about the refs. And a lot of fans take the cue from the players. That means either:

1. Eliminate the 2 technical auto-ejection rule: let's face it Refs are unwilling to eject star players, witness the disgraceful Booker non-call last year. Eliminate the 2 technical rule and tell players that the refs will have zero tolerance for yelling and will hand out Ts like they do personal fouls.

2. Keep it and enforce it: The NBA should tell the players at the beginning of the year, Refs have been told to toss players for yelling and will stand by them for it. And for a month the NBA will get bad press as marquees players are getting tossed. But players will adjust just as players adjusted to the 2005 rule changes that completely changed defense.



3. Keep it as is: if you don't think it is problem this is your option. But then the NBA has to apply the Dray standard to everyone. And that means you're going to have guys screaming at refs on both teams all game long, on every play. I think that sucks but that is the only fair standard if you aren't going to adopt 1 or 2.

Honestly kinda like option one here. Maybe even up it to 2 technical free throws after the 2nd tech. That should be enough of a penalty without taking a guy out of play

that's a good idea. I'd slightly amend it to make it 2 free throws for every technical. But the key is you have to be willing to enforce it. That means in the 4th if a player if a player screams at the ref T em up.

Coaches complain and tolerate complaining because the penalty is too light. But if you had a guy giving the other team's 85% ft shooter 4 to 6 free throws a game they make it stop. The same way they stop players from committing normal fouls that hurt the team. I'd imagine, very quickly, all these guys, and every team has a Dray or two, would stop treating the refs like crap. Their teammates would force em to cut it out.

Like Colbinii , I just dislike players treating the refs like crap. I don't mind taunting other players really. But players who berate refs remind me of guys who go into restaurants and openly leer at waitresses. They know the waitress hates it but do it because they are higher status than the waitress. It is gross.