Is Pau Gasol a top 50 player all-time?

[Stalwart]

Hayes has no argument

Why not? He put up better numbers and had a more successful career. How does he have no case?

If you think it's a given that Hayes put up better numbers than Gasol, then there's a ton about the numbers you don't know. I would say that Gasol's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes'.

And more successful career? I mean, that's the overarching topic so you can argue that certainly, but you're not arguing it so much asserting it right now, and if it's not based on stats, it's not all that clear what you're referring to.

What makes you say Pau's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes?

[sp6r=underrated]

man viewing your teammates as rivals is one of the classic things Riley was talking about when he discussed the disease of me:



even if you think Gasol wasn't a top 50 player, him being in the top 50 doesn't diminish Kobe

[sp6r=underrated]

Why not? He put up better numbers and had a more successful career. How does he have no case?

If you think it's a given that Hayes put up better numbers than Gasol, then there's a ton about the numbers you don't know. I would say that Gasol's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes'.

And more successful career? I mean, that's the overarching topic so you can argue that certainly, but you're not arguing it so much asserting it right now, and if it's not based on stats, it's not all that clear what you're referring to.

What makes you say Pau's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes?

I'm not Hayes hater but there are two major critiques on him: one statistical/one personality.

The statistical argument is that he combined terrible efficiency with an unwillingness to pass the ball. Gasol had a very strong efficiency and was a quite willing passer.

The personality argument is a lot of his teammates just flat out detested him. Along with Rick Barry he was the most critiqued player of his generation on that front

[Stalwart]

- On one hand, "Kobe is selfish! Kobe shoots too much! Kobe doesn't pass enough! Kobe makes the game too hard!"

- On the other hand, "Pau is a top 50 player. The Lakers had the best front court in the game. Phil Jackson and the triangle made it work."

I think there's a relevant side group here. Stepping away from Pau and whether or not he has a place in the top 50, there is a lot of discussion attempting to denigrate Pau in order to prop up Kobe, which is where there's a bunch of resistance.

Are you sure about that? From what I can tell it looks like you guys have come to this conclusion by yourselves. For example. I made the comment that Pau wasn't a great scorer, rebounder, or defender so I'm not sure why he's being put above some of these other guys. I was immediately accused of criticizing Pau because I'm a Kobe fan. I think you guys are projecting just a bit.

OTOH, Pau was not necessarily the optimal or only fit for the Lakers, I think many other players could have duplicated Gasol's impact in that time period:

Bosh
Garnett
Duncan
Al Jefferson
Elton Brand
ZBo
Rasheed
Boozer
Al Horford
Aldridge

Doubt it with Bosh, Jefferson, Brand, Z Bo, Sheed, Boozer or Aldridge. Garnett and Duncan were superstars, so that seems evident. They likely would have been a lot better, even with KG and Tim a little older at that point. Al Jefferson was an inefficient post scorer who wasn't a great passer and wasn't a good defender, he would definitely not have been as good as Pau in that system. Z Bo was a good rebounder but nothing like Pau on D or as a passer, and was worse on offense. Sheed wasn't the rebounder or scoring threat. Boozer was a horrific defender, though offensively he might have fit in. Horford was and remains quite good. Aldridge was not good enough on the glass and was a notably less effective scoring threat. Most of those dudes wouldn't have got it done in LA.

I have a hard time picturing anyone else but Gasol in that role as he fit so well. However, I could see Chris Bosh, a younger Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand working out. Aldridge and Horford perhaps. But I will say I don't see any of them working better in that role than Gasol.

[Salieri]

They don't get one of those titles without MWP

They don't get two of those titles without Odom

They might not get one of those titles without Bynum


Imo, Pau could have been replaced by a lot of PF's

The rest of your anecdotal fallacies aside (the tactic of pitting Pau against Kobe as if they were rivals instead of teammates is an old trope from Kobe fans), this is the core of your post.

You're essentially saying that MWP, Odom and Bynum were more instrumental to those championships than Pau.

What can a reasonable poster say to that?

This is why participating in these threads is a waste of time, and I regret doing so.

Nope, you're deflecting. I am saying they were just as instrumental as Pau.

No, that's actually not what you said. The quote is right up there, buddy, written by you. Who is lying? You, or you?

What I think the Kobe-haters overlook

This is hilarious. Forget about the rest of your rambling, just focus for a moment in what you're saying.

People are debating Pau's legacy. That's it. Nobody brought Kobe up except Kobe fanboys, your insecurities can't even allow you to contemplate talking about an excellent player without feeling it's throwing shade at your idol.

Take a look at my posts. Nowhere you'll find a mention to Kobe, let alone a BAD mention to him. I didn't make it about Kobe, and neither did any of the reasonable posters who have contributed to this thread. Yet here you are, defending his case when his case wasn't even part of the conversation and doesn't need to be defended. And another Kobe fanboy even called this "an anti-Kobe troll thread" (I'm quoting). Apparently Pau's career cannot be discussed without making Kobe the real point of the conversation now.

This. Is. Not. About. Kobe. Do you get it now? Such a simple idea should be easy enough to grasp, so spare us with your Kobe diatribes. I appreciate the amazing player he was, but he is completely irrelevant to the matter at hand. So is Duncan, by the way, and attacking Spurs fans and "Duncan fanboys" is another tactic we've seen in this thread. As I said, such insecurity is hilarious.

Pau is not a superstar, he was not really even a star imo.

Aaaaaand we're done here.

My fault, I should have known better than to engage. It sucks that I can't participate in a thread talking about a great player because of posters like you, but it is what it is.

Good day to you, sir.

[Doctor MJ]

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

As a Laker fan, I'll say:

No player-fan base has been more toxic to quality basketball thought that the cult of personality that is Kobe fandom, and if you imagine any opponent fanbase is the one being unreasonable, 99% of the time you're wrong...and you can see it right in this thread.

It's completely find not to have Gasol in one's Top 50, but anyone who turns their nose up at Gasol while claiming to be a Laker fan needs to check themselves. Lakers don't get those last two Kobe titles without Gasol. Kobe was the best player on the team no doubt, and a worthy MVP player... but Gasol was huge for the team.

Who is doing that? You guys are trying to put him in the top 50 on par with Kevin Mchale and Charles Barkley. Meanwhile you're turning your noses up at Chris Webber, Elvin Hayes, Dennis Rodman, ect. Laker fans love Pau Gasol but they are also aware of the anti-Kobe fans agenda to pump him up into a mini Shaq.

Its the anti-Kobe fans who are the most toxic. By far. Them and the Lebron fans. Tim Duncan fans not far behind(jk 70sfan. Kinda).

Go look up anyone in this thread with a reference to the Lakers either in their profile who knocked Gasol. I assure you, it won't be hard to find.

Re: You guys...anti-Kobe fans are the most toxic...you're fooling yourself. The most toxic group is always the most passionate group, and in sports, the most passionate group is generally the "homers" not the "haters", because homers can build identifies for themselves in their fandom. (It's different in politics.)

If you're a homer who perceives that it's the haters who are most emotionally charged, that's generally just about you.

Re: turning up noses at... you're using my turn of phrase as a riposte to say "Well you're doing the same thing", but you're missing key context.

When folks are just doing general player comparisons, they have to pick one player over another.

What we're seeing in this thread is Laker fans bashing a Laker because he's the sidekick of their preferred Laker.

This is pretty common behavior in player comparisons within a certain context, so I don't want to make it seem like only Kobe fans do this. What's significant here is that these guys are long since in the rear view mirror and only one of them is actually relevant to the thread topic.

We're more than a decade past the last time Kobe won a title with Gasol as his best teammate, and still, many people who cheered on those Lakers feel a first impulse to knock Gasol when he's being discussed on his own. There's no reason for them to do this if they aren't thinking first and foremost about how this makes Kobe look. They are so polarized, they just can't help themselves.

This, incidentally, is why I tried to emphasize that I was not knocking Kobe, and that Kobe was the team's best player and a worthy MVP. I knew if I said anything critical about Kobe, that for many people, that's all they would focus on, because they just identify Kobe with such loyalty.

Last note: As I'm wont to say, I'm a born and raised Angeleno Laker fan. I know full well the power of his icon. I know that if we made a new airport, and asked Angelenos who to name it after, they'd probably pick Kobe Bryant. I know that I meet people who have careers that have nothing to do with sports, who will tell me that Kobe is their role model and the inspiration for how hard they work.

This cult of personality that Kobe was able to create for himself is a massive accomplishment. Short of religion and politics, I'm not sure what rivals it...and of course had Kobe lived and decided to go into politics, I think there's an excellent chance he could have ended up as mayor of LA or governor of California. Kobe was very smart with how he went about creating his persona, and he succeeded like gangbusters with it (by contrast guys like LeBron & KD really haven't created the same type of large scale fanaticism despite the fact they've tried).

So anyway, it is what it is, but nobody on these boards creates more passion in people than Kobe does in those who love him.

[Doctor MJ]

Why not? He put up better numbers and had a more successful career. How does he have no case?

If you think it's a given that Hayes put up better numbers than Gasol, then there's a ton about the numbers you don't know. I would say that Gasol's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes'.

And more successful career? I mean, that's the overarching topic so you can argue that certainly, but you're not arguing it so much asserting it right now, and if it's not based on stats, it's not all that clear what you're referring to.

What makes you say Pau's numbers are flat out more impressive than Hayes?

Gasol looks better by PER, WS, BPM, and pretty much any stat along those lines.

To cut to the quick here: Central to all of this is that Hayes was a horrendously inefficient volume scorer even for his time. So if by chance you find Hayes more impressive because of his scoring volume, understand that there are a ton of data points telling us that he really shouldn't have been shooting so much then, and nowadays his path to success would almost certainly require him to be a role player on offense.

Now, by contrast, if you were to say that you respect Hayes' D so much you think he was overall better than Gasol's superior offense, that's not crazy at all...but generally that's not what people mean when they say a guy has better numbers.

[Roger Murdock]

I think there was a fair argument he was a boarderline top 50 guy in 2013/2014 time frame when his career was winding down. I would have leaned ‘no - more like 70ish’ but it wouldn’t have been unreasonable

The last 8 years or so these guys have unquestionably made the leap above him:
Curry, Durant, Harden, Lilliard, Giannis, Westbrook off the top of my head

Some others that are arguable: Embiid, Jokic, Butler, Irving, Love, Griffin, Davis, Doncic, his brother, Thompson, Green, etc

I think he’s probably between the 75th and 150th greatest players ever.

[Doctor MJ]

man viewing your teammates as rivals is one of the classic things Riley was talking about when he discussed the disease of me:



even if you think Gasol wasn't a top 50 player, him being in the top 50 doesn't diminish Kobe

Yup, though of course what we're talking about here isn't "me" in the literal sense. What we're talking about is people becoming so attached to how someone else is perceived that they attach themselves to that person - aka, the cult of personality.

I don't think any of us are immune from these tendencies, but it's really something when you see around the celebrities that have managed to sew this most effectively amongst a population.

One other thing:

I do think it's important to note that people likely aren't coming into this thread thinking "Oh a thread about Gasol, I must make up criticisms toward Gasol there in order to further the Kobe cause". Rather, people have managed to remember Gasol primarily through the lens "of why Kobe didn't win more".

So, somehow, despite the fact that Gasol has strong arguments for being the MVP of the '10-11 Lakers, and despite the fact Gasol was still making all-star games all the way to 2016, people have managed to long remember the story of the '10-11 Lakers as one of Gasol reaching basketball senility and thus preventing Kobe from winning more titles.

Doesn't mean Gasol played great in the Mavs series that year - he clearly did not, though he was far from alone among Lakers for whom this is true - but the fact that that series takes such a massive importance in their notion of what Gasol's career arc looks like makes clear that they didn't actually ever analyze Gasol on his own terms.

The story of Gasol for them thus becomes simply "the story of how Gasol can be used to explain how great Kobe was"...even though there's often no explicit intention among most who come to see things in this way to actually end up doing this.

And again, none of us are immune from this type of narrative framing. On some level, we cannot help but do it...but when you see someone else do it, you can often fairly easily see how they came to approach the analysis with this warped perspective.

Passion is a double-edged sword for all of us.

[tsherkin]

Are you sure about that? From what I can tell it looks like you guys have come to this conclusion by yourselves. For example. I made the comment that Pau wasn't a great scorer, rebounder, or defender so I'm not sure why he's being put above some of these other guys. I was immediately accused of criticizing Pau because I'm a Kobe fan. I think you guys are projecting just a bit.

Very sure, yes. It is not, however, universal in the thread, of course. Remember, I have no dog in the top 50 discussion. I dont have Pau top 50 either. There are just some people crapping on Pau to prop up Kobe, which is unnecessary. Similar to how some Jordan fans crap on Scottie to prop up MJ.

I have a hard time picturing anyone else but Gasol in that role as he fit so well. However, I could see Chris Bosh, a younger Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand working out. Aldridge and Horford perhaps. But I will say I don't see any of them working better in that role than Gasol.

Bosh didnt have Pau's game. He was a face-up iso baller who leveraged his J Pau was much better at passing and off-ball action, and a better rebounder. Dont get me wrong, Bosh was an excellent player, I just think the fit would be poorer. Sheed, I have a lot of trouble believing would be as valuable as a #2, particularly in his younger form. Aldridge, at any point wasnt good enough.

Brand... Intjink he wasnt healthy enough and jt has been a long time. I may simply be remembering him unfairly. He certainly had a nice peak but I again come back to passing and the triangle. I dont think he had that level of ability in him relative to Pau.

[Doctor MJ]

- On one hand, "Kobe is selfish! Kobe shoots too much! Kobe doesn't pass enough! Kobe makes the game too hard!"

- On the other hand, "Pau is a top 50 player. The Lakers had the best front court in the game. Phil Jackson and the triangle made it work."

I think there's a relevant side group here. Stepping away from Pau and whether or not he has a place in the top 50, there is a lot of discussion attempting to denigrate Pau in order to prop up Kobe, which is where there's a bunch of resistance.

Are you sure about that? From what I can tell it looks like you guys have come to this conclusion by yourselves. For example. I made the comment that Pau wasn't a great scorer, rebounder, or defender so I'm not sure why he's being put above some of these other guys. I was immediately accused of criticizing Pau because I'm a Kobe fan. I think you guys are projecting just a bit.

Listen, to be clear on my part:

I'm certainly not trying to say that only people with a pro-Kobe agenda say negative things about Gasol - but in terms of whether there's a trend of people who passionately argue pro-Kobe jumping in this thread and making anti-Gasol statements - yes, that's clearly happening. Both you and An Unbiased Fan are very much known for your pro-Kobe stances, and you both quickly jumped into this thread knocking Gasol, and after that we quickly get a number of other posters whose profile make clear they are Laker fans who not only are low on Gasol, but don't seem to be have a real grasp of Gasol's career arc.

So, it's just obviously a thing, and a thing worth commenting on. Gasol is going to have his jersey retired by the Lakers because he did amazing stuff for the Lakers, and yet the first thought of many Laker fans seems to be negative. That just kinda stinks, particularly since he's always had a reputation as a really good guy.

In fairness, part of the reason this is easy to spot is because it's a common thing. I mean, over in Chicago, it's not just the fans but Jordan himself who poke and poke at Pippen. Why? Because of the zero-sum thinking that people tend to have when allocating credit for team success. The more issues you see with my teammate, the better I appear to be.

So we should all take care not to judge those who fall prey to this too harshly - as I've said, it can and probably does happen to all of us - but it's definitely a thing, and I meant what I said that I think it's stronger relating to Kobe's supporters than pretty much anyone else in the last 20 years - can't think of anyone outside of religion & politics that's stronger.

And it's not a particularly "Kobe" thing for inexplicable reasons.
More than anything else, it's happening because of how huge and massively admired of an icon Kobe is that conversations that are not supposed to be about him, end up being steered by his aether.

[Ballerhogger]

Well least see who’s ahead of him now
Dirk
KG
Duncan
Barkley
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
Elvin Hayes
Now he’s better than Kevin Mchale Chris Webber, bob Petit?

[Ballerhogger]

man viewing your teammates as rivals is one of the classic things Riley was talking about when he discussed the disease of me:



even if you think Gasol wasn't a top 50 player, him being in the top 50 doesn't diminish Kobe

Agreed we don’t diminish MJ for playing with Pippen

[An Unbiased Fan]

man viewing your teammates as rivals is one of the classic things Riley was talking about when he discussed the disease of me:



even if you think Gasol wasn't a top 50 player, him being in the top 50 doesn't diminish Kobe

Yup, though of course what we're talking about here isn't "me" in the literal sense. What we're talking about is people becoming so attached to how someone else is perceived that they attach themselves to that person - aka, the cult of personality.

I don't think any of us are immune from these tendencies, but it's really something when you see around the celebrities that have managed to sew this most effectively amongst a population.

One other thing:

I do think it's important to note that people likely aren't coming into this thread thinking "Oh a thread about Gasol, I must make up criticisms toward Gasol there in order to further the Kobe cause". Rather, people have managed to remember Gasol primarily through the lens "of why Kobe didn't win more".

So, somehow, despite the fact that Gasol has strong arguments for being the MVP of the '10-11 Lakers, and despite the fact Gasol was still making all-star games all the way to 2016, people have managed to long remember the story of the '10-11 Lakers as one of Gasol reaching basketball senility and thus preventing Kobe from winning more titles.

Doesn't mean Gasol played great in the Mavs series that year - he clearly did not, though he was far from alone among Lakers for whom this is true - but the fact that that series takes such a massive importance in their notion of what Gasol's career arc looks like makes clear that they didn't actually ever analyze Gasol on his own terms.

The story of Gasol for them thus becomes simply "the story of how Gasol can be used to explain how great Kobe was"...even though there's often no explicit intention among most who come to see things in this way to actually end up doing this.

And again, none of us are immune from this type of narrative framing. On some level, we cannot help but do it...but when you see someone else do it, you can often fairly easily see how they came to approach the analysis with this warped perspective.

Passion is a double-edged sword for all of us.

I really only see you and a few others making this about "Kobe fans".

Thinking Pau isn't Top 50 isn't a slight on him, so where are you going with this? Also in what world does Gasol have a strong argument for Laker's MVP in 2011????

[Stalwart]

Listen, to be clear on my part:

I'm certainly not trying to say that only people with a pro-Kobe agenda say negative things about Gasol - but in terms of whether there's a trend of people who passionately argue pro-Kobe jumping in this thread and making anti-Gasol statements - yes, that's clearly happening. Both you and An Unbiased Fan are very much known for your pro-Kobe stances, and you both quickly jumped into this thread knocking Gasol, and after that we quickly get a number of other posters whose profile make clear they are Laker fans who not only are low on Gasol, but don't seem to be have a real grasp of Gasol's career arc.

So I went back and read Unbiased Fan and I's intially reaponses in this thread. And its just like I said youbguys are projecting. Unbiased Fan said Gasol was a great player but he didn't make the top 75 and is not a top 50 player. Where is he "knocking" Gasol as opposed to giving his straight forward and widely shared opinion? I went a little further and noted how overrated Pau has become. Is that knocking him or bashing when its the truth?

Imagine if Kobe fans kept making threads and posts claiming Kobe was the GOAT. Heck, imagine even if they just said he was top 5. Wouldn't that kind of force you to "knock" Kobe? Would it be fair to then call you a Kobe hater or accuse you of having an agenda because you said "great player but not top 5"? Thats what's going on here with Gasol. There is no legitimately credible argument, that I can see, for Pau being in the top 50. He's not on a different level than your CWebb's and Chris Bosh's. So when you guys push these arguments it kind of forces others to criticize Pau more than they otherwise would.

You want to see me sing Gasol's praises then just switch the conversation. Instead of debating the top 50 lets talk about the top 75-100. Or lets talk about the best Robins in NBA history. Gasol's name will come up. Or the best international players. Or lets talk about what a great and unique fit he was next to Kobe and in the triangle. Those type of conversations would allow others to praise Gasol rather than be critical.

So, it's just obviously a thing, and a thing worth commenting on. Gasol is going to have his jersey retired by the Lakers because he did amazing stuff for the Lakers, and yet the first thought of many Laker fans seems to be negative. That just kinda stinks, particularly since he's always had a reputation as a really good guy.

In fairness, part of the reason this is easy to spot is because it's a common thing. I mean, over in Chicago, it's not just the fans but Jordan himself who poke and poke at Pippen. Why? Because of the zero-sum thinking that people tend to have when allocating credit for team success. The more issues you see with my teammate, the better I appear to be.

So we should all take care not to judge those who fall prey to this too harshly - as I've said, it can and probably does happen to all of us - but it's definitely a thing, and I meant what I said that I think it's stronger relating to Kobe's supporters than pretty much anyone else in the last 20 years - can't think of anyone outside of religion & politics that's stronger.

And it's not a particularly "Kobe" thing for inexplicable reasons.
More than anything else, it's happening because of how huge and massively admired of an icon Kobe is that conversations that are not supposed to be about him, end up being steered by his aether.

Again, its you guys bringing up Kobe. Unbiased Fan nor myself mentioned Kobe at all.

You say fans bash Gasol and Pippen because they love Jordan and Kobe so much. That's nonesense. What happens is other fans of other players spend a great deal of typing pumping up both Gasol and Pippen into something more than they actually were as a means to diminsh Kobe abd Jordan. The agenda is coming from the other side my friend.

The only reason Gasol enjoys the reputation as a top 50 player within some circles is a byproduct of the anti-Kobe narratives. Narratives like Gasol should have won FMVP. Or that Gasol saved Kobe. Or that Kobe never won without a dominant big man. And now we can add Gasol was the 2011 MVP to pile. After years of these type of narratives it gives less informed posters the impression that Gasol must have a been superstar or something. That's literally the only reason he has that repuation in some circles as his career, his numbers, nor the eye test warrant such a high ranking.

And its the same thing with Pippen. When people put Pippen in the top 30 and what not it leaves honest and reasonable fans no choice but to be critical.

And again, both Jordan and Lebron have bigger cult of personalities. And in the case of Lebrons cult they are the most toxic by far. By far.

[Pennebaker]

He’s very borderline. I think you could make the case to sneak him in there.

I know I would personally put Pau in AD’s spot in the top 50, but I would understand if not everyone agreed too.

Is AD in the top 50? I know AD made the NBA's 75th anniversary team but that list wasn't ranked. ESPN ranked the NBA's top 75 and had Anthony Davis at #71.

[LAL1947]

He’s very borderline. I think you could make the case to sneak him in there.

I know I would personally put Pau in AD’s spot in the top 50, but I would understand if not everyone agreed too.

Is AD in the top 50? I know AD made the NBA's 75th anniversary team but that list wasn't ranked. ESPN ranked the NBA's top 75 and had Anthony Davis at #71.

I think this is a good point to bring the thread to back on topic. ESPN's ranking was done in Feb 2022, so very recently.

In their ranking, they had:

76 - Bill Sharman
75 - Dame Lillard
74 - Dave Bing
73 - Dave DeBusschere
72 - Billy Cunningham
71 - Anthony Davis
70 - Dolph Schayes

Instead of making this discussion about Kobe or Kobe-fans... let's talk about why you think Gasol should be ranked higher than these 7 guys listed above as a starting point? I mean, to get into the Top 50, he must first pass those who are #75 to #51 in descending order. Right?

Cheers!

[tsherkin]

He’s very borderline. I think you could make the case to sneak him in there.

I know I would personally put Pau in AD’s spot in the top 50, but I would understand if not everyone agreed too.

Is AD in the top 50? I know AD made the NBA's 75th anniversary team but that list wasn't ranked. ESPN ranked the NBA's top 75 and had Anthony Davis at #71.

I think this is a good point to bring the thread to back on topic. ESPN's ranking was done in Feb 2022, so very recently.

In their ranking, they had:

76 - Bill Sharman
75 - Dame Lillard
74 - Dave Bing
73 - Dave DeBusschere
72 - Billy Cunningham
71 - Anthony Davis
70 - Dolph Schayes

Instead of making this discussion about Kobe-fans... let's talk about why you think Gasol should be ranked higher than these guys as a starting point. I mean, to get into Top 50, he must first pass those who are #75 to #51 in descending order. Right?

I have explicitly said both that I dont rank Pau top 50 and that my remarks were aside from any specific ranking, so I dont know why you are tagging me with that particular comment.

[naabzor]

He’s very borderline. I think you could make the case to sneak him in there.

I know I would personally put Pau in AD’s spot in the top 50, but I would understand if not everyone agreed too.

Is AD in the top 50? I know AD made the NBA's 75th anniversary team but that list wasn't ranked. ESPN ranked the NBA's top 75 and had Anthony Davis at #71.

I think this is a good point to bring the thread to back on topic. ESPN's ranking was done in Feb 2022, so very recently.

In their ranking, they had:

76 - Bill Sharman
75 - Dame Lillard
74 - Dave Bing
73 - Dave DeBusschere
72 - Billy Cunningham
71 - Anthony Davis
70 - Dolph Schayes

Instead of making this discussion about Kobe-fans... let's talk about why you think Gasol should be ranked higher than these guys as a starting point. I mean, to get into Top 50, he must first pass those who are #75 to #51 in descending order. Right?

Lillard? What? I can see some argument for AD maybe but Lillard? This is recency bias at his best.

[LAL1947]

I have explicitly said both that I dont rank Pau top 50 and that my remarks were aside from any specific ranking, so I dont know why you are tagging me with that particular comment.

My apologies, I was just trying to be inclusive... plus you have good takes so I was curious to see how you'd go about ranking him over those guys between #70-76. I'll change your tag to 70sFan.

Btw, even if you don't rank Pau in the Top 50, do you think he has a case for Top 75? That's what I'm asking about. Being in the Top 50 only comes later, after he's vanquished those between #51 to 75.