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O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson

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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#201 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Jun 8, 2022 4:52 am

Chi town wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If you move DeRozan, are we getting a Top 3 pick or a young rising star? No? Then can't move him. Getting Gobert for DeMar is ridiculous, as much I like Gobert. I'd rather sign and trade LaVine for Gobert.

So AKME is making LaVine the leader of this team again? AKME is avoiding that.


Don’t think so. Maybe a 10-12 pick. Age.

I’d trade DDR for OG and GTJ.
Vuc for Gobert.
Then we have enough 3s and D.

Lonzo/Ayo
Lavine/GTJ
PW/Coby
OG/PW
Gobert


I’m completely against trading DeRozan unless he wants out. I think he earned that respect with his play this season.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#202 » by Hold That » Wed Jun 8, 2022 5:03 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Chi town wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If you move DeRozan, are we getting a Top 3 pick or a young rising star? No? Then can't move him. Getting Gobert for DeMar is ridiculous, as much I like Gobert. I'd rather sign and trade LaVine for Gobert.

So AKME is making LaVine the leader of this team again? AKME is avoiding that.


Don’t think so. Maybe a 10-12 pick. Age.

I’d trade DDR for OG and GTJ.
Vuc for Gobert.
Then we have enough 3s and D.

Lonzo/Ayo
Lavine/GTJ
PW/Coby
OG/PW
Gobert


I’m completely against trading DeRozan unless he wants out. I think he earned that respect with his play this season.


There is 0 chance we move DeRozan without him asking. His production on the contract he’s on, Zach is more likely to be shipped out. But I also feel like there’s zero chance we trade Lavine or DeRozan for Gobert. The plan should be pairing them up.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#203 » by Chi town » Wed Jun 8, 2022 5:19 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Chi town wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If you move DeRozan, are we getting a Top 3 pick or a young rising star? No? Then can't move him. Getting Gobert for DeMar is ridiculous, as much I like Gobert. I'd rather sign and trade LaVine for Gobert.

So AKME is making LaVine the leader of this team again? AKME is avoiding that.


Don’t think so. Maybe a 10-12 pick. Age.

I’d trade DDR for OG and GTJ.
Vuc for Gobert.
Then we have enough 3s and D.

Lonzo/Ayo
Lavine/GTJ
PW/Coby
OG/PW
Gobert


I’m completely against trading DeRozan unless he wants out. I think he earned that respect with his play this season.


I see no way AK trades DDR either. If he did that’s the package DDR is worth though IMO
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#204 » by Hangtime84 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 5:37 am

You don't trade a current All-NBA player for all-star potential you trade it for a young player with All-NBA potential.

OG isn't even all-star yet just an above average starter.
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aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#205 » by TheGOATRises007 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 8:20 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:He's like a super charged version of Coby that we could get for free.

And we need more 3's. We were one of the worst shooting teams in the whole league.

The perks of having an anchor like Gobert is that you can play guys like Duncan.


That perk will disappear in the playoffs when they constantly attack Duncan Robinson. Gobert isn't a miracle worker. Some of the Jazz's players were better defensively than Duncan and they got picked on constantly in the playoffs too despite Gobert's anchoring.

We need more threes, but we can't afford defensive sieves.

I mean he played big minutes in a finals series. There is a limit to how much a 6’7” guy can be picked on.

And yes Gobert pretty much is a miracle worker defensively.

In any case, it’s a separate conversation from Gobert. You get Gobert to turn the defense into a strength/identity. Follow-up moves would presumably be to shore up the offense (eg more shooting).


He played 2 years ago.

He didn't even play in the playoffs much for Miami now. Who cares how much he played in the past?

Did you watch the Jazz in the playoffs? Gobert can't do much if your perimeter defenders kept getting blown by the opposing players. And it routinely happened.

The Jazz's DRTG in the playoffs plummeted by a good amount consistently.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#206 » by BullChit » Wed Jun 8, 2022 10:44 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
That perk will disappear in the playoffs when they constantly attack Duncan Robinson. Gobert isn't a miracle worker. Some of the Jazz's players were better defensively than Duncan and they got picked on constantly in the playoffs too despite Gobert's anchoring.

We need more threes, but we can't afford defensive sieves.

I mean he played big minutes in a finals series. There is a limit to how much a 6’7” guy can be picked on.

And yes Gobert pretty much is a miracle worker defensively.

In any case, it’s a separate conversation from Gobert. You get Gobert to turn the defense into a strength/identity. Follow-up moves would presumably be to shore up the offense (eg more shooting).


He played 2 years ago.

He didn't even play in the playoffs much for Miami now. Who cares how much he played in the past?

Did you watch the Jazz in the playoffs? Gobert can't do much if your perimeter defenders kept getting blown by the opposing players. And it routinely happened.


The Jazz's DRTG in the playoffs plummeted by a good amount consistently.


This made me realise just how incredible a line up with Lonzo, Caruso and Gobert would be defensively.... offensively challenged yes but I wouldn't imagine many points being scored against it..
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#207 » by Clint Eastwood » Wed Jun 8, 2022 11:14 am

Chi town wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If you move DeRozan, are we getting a Top 3 pick or a young rising star? No? Then can't move him. Getting Gobert for DeMar is ridiculous, as much I like Gobert. I'd rather sign and trade LaVine for Gobert.

So AKME is making LaVine the leader of this team again? AKME is avoiding that.


Don’t think so. Maybe a 10-12 pick. Age.

I’d trade DDR for OG and GTJ.
Vuc for Gobert.
Then we have enough 3s and D.

Lonzo/Ayo
Lavine/GTJ
PW/Coby
OG/PW
Gobert

No chance in hell Toronto gives us that package for derozan, lol. And no chance vuc alone gets us gobert. If those trades happened, Arturas would be gm of the century.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#208 » by BullChit » Wed Jun 8, 2022 11:24 am

Clint Eastwood wrote:
Chi town wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If you move DeRozan, are we getting a Top 3 pick or a young rising star? No? Then can't move him. Getting Gobert for DeMar is ridiculous, as much I like Gobert. I'd rather sign and trade LaVine for Gobert.

So AKME is making LaVine the leader of this team again? AKME is avoiding that.


Don’t think so. Maybe a 10-12 pick. Age.

I’d trade DDR for OG and GTJ.
Vuc for Gobert.
Then we have enough 3s and D.

Lonzo/Ayo
Lavine/GTJ
PW/Coby
OG/PW
Gobert

No chance in hell Toronto gives us that package for derozan, lol. And no chance vuc alone gets us gobert. If those trades happened, Arturas would be gm of the century.


Or arrested for criminal activities of some kind...
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#209 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 8, 2022 12:04 pm

rosenthall wrote:Gobert is listed as 7 Ft 1 and 245 lbs. Mutombo is listed at 7'2 and 260 lbs. Chandler as 7'0 and 240 lbs. Marc Gasol at 6'11 and 255 lbs. To be honest, I'm not sure why Gobert's body is more like Gasol and than Mutombo or Chandler. In any event, I agree that if he has cartilage damage in his joints or something that's degenerative in his lower body then we should avoid trading for him.

But I'm not in a position to parse the differences in Gobert's biomechanics compared to other people's. I think the trend holds though, if you can play your game without leaving your feet it bodes well for your longevity.


Maybe I'm just wrong :lol:

Looking at them in my head, Gobert just seems way thicker than the rest of those guys who were really slim and bouncy, but if those numbers are accurate, I'd agree and am just an idiot. Gasol is the one guy who also struck me as a lot thicker.

Save Duncan, I wouldn't choose to build a team around any of these guys as my first choice, but if I were already over the cap and acquiring them on a max contract significantly improved the team........it seems like a doable idea.


Yeah, forgot about Duncan on the list, obviously you'd take him on a max, and that's obvious because he was still a star offensive player, the defense only guys? You wouldn't want any of those dudes on a max deal taking up 30%+ of your cap though.

There's decent reason to believe he'll be pretty close to his current self throughout his current contract, so if you think Gobert today is reasonably paid, you shouldn't think Gobert in four years should bear some resemblance to the player he is today.


I think Gobert is a 25M dollar player today, and I agree there's a "decent" chance he's the same guy in four years. I would put the odds of Gobert having four good, healthy seasons as extremely low. If you got three seasons at current performance, you'd probably be okay-ish with the deal depending on the rest of your circumstances (like if you are primed and ready to contend for all four years, then I think you'd take it).

Again, I don't want to overstate the case. I know he'll decline on his current contract. The last year looks particularly risky. But the Tim Duncan defensive decline is very different from the Ben Wallace defensive decline.


Yeah, I just am not going to use a top 15 all time player in the NBA as a comparison for Gobert. Obviously none of the example you listed are perfect. Motumbo might be the closest, but Gobert seems to offer more on offense than Motumbo.

I don't hate the idea of getting Gobert necessarily, I would hate the idea of giving up a lot for Gobert.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#210 » by Jcool0 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 1:52 pm

dougthonus wrote:
I think Gobert is a 25M dollar player today, and I agree there's a "decent" chance he's the same guy in four years. I would put the odds of Gobert having four good, healthy seasons as extremely low. If you got three seasons at current performance, you'd probably be okay-ish with the deal depending on the rest of your circumstances (like if you are primed and ready to contend for all four years, then I think you'd take it).



Vuc is a 25M player. He is a 2x All Star.

Gobert is a 4x All NBA player, 3x All-Star, 6x All-Defensive & 3x DPOTY. Who just had 15.6 ppg on 71% shooting and 14.7 rebounds season.

He might not be worth 45 million at age 33 (there are a lot of guys you could say that about). But lets not act like he isn't an elite player.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#211 » by FriedRise » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:04 pm

BullChit wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:I mean he played big minutes in a finals series. There is a limit to how much a 6’7” guy can be picked on.

And yes Gobert pretty much is a miracle worker defensively.

In any case, it’s a separate conversation from Gobert. You get Gobert to turn the defense into a strength/identity. Follow-up moves would presumably be to shore up the offense (eg more shooting).


He played 2 years ago.

He didn't even play in the playoffs much for Miami now. Who cares how much he played in the past?

Did you watch the Jazz in the playoffs? Gobert can't do much if your perimeter defenders kept getting blown by the opposing players. And it routinely happened.


The Jazz's DRTG in the playoffs plummeted by a good amount consistently.


This made me realise just how incredible a line up with Lonzo, Caruso and Gobert would be defensively.... offensively challenged yes but I wouldn't imagine many points being scored against it..


I generally agree, and great defense will get us through the regular season just fine, but my worry with a team full of offensively-challenged players is often times great offense > great defense. When the other team has that guy who keeps draining shots while you play perfect defense and you can't answer on the other end, it's game over.

We keep harping on why we might need better defenders, but the Bulls in the playoffs were 5th in terms of DRTG (108.3) - albeit small sample size because we only lasted 5 games. And we had to face Giannis and other HOF shooters like Grayson Allen and Pat Connaughton. But we were DEAD last in ORTG (94.4), and it's not even close because the next worse team was almost 10pts higher than the Bulls (103.4). That was the Bucks because they lost Middleton.

We need shooting in the worst way, and I hesitate to tie up that much money in a player who does not shoot at the cost of our few remaining shooters. And on top of that, there's a chance that we can't even play him at all in the playoffs? No team can recover from $40M tied up to the bench, and we'll be stuck with him for the next 4 years.

One thing where I can see Gobert turning us into a better team is if you factor in the fact that Vooch was a third option on our team. So essentially we'd be turning Vooch's B-/C+ rating third option offensive production into Gobert's S+ rating rim protection. What we lose in Vooch's shooting we can potentially gain in Gobert's uber efficient offense. In that sense, I can see a path where we may become a better team, but we'll definitely need some guys to come back and maintain their production - like Zach to resign and be healthy, and for Zo to also return and be healthy, and for DeMar to beat father time one more year.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#212 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:21 pm

dougthonus wrote:
rosenthall wrote:Gobert is listed as 7 Ft 1 and 245 lbs. Mutombo is listed at 7'2 and 260 lbs. Chandler as 7'0 and 240 lbs. Marc Gasol at 6'11 and 255 lbs. To be honest, I'm not sure why Gobert's body is more like Gasol and than Mutombo or Chandler. In any event, I agree that if he has cartilage damage in his joints or something that's degenerative in his lower body then we should avoid trading for him.

But I'm not in a position to parse the differences in Gobert's biomechanics compared to other people's. I think the trend holds though, if you can play your game without leaving your feet it bodes well for your longevity.


Maybe I'm just wrong :lol:

Looking at them in my head, Gobert just seems way thicker than the rest of those guys who were really slim and bouncy, but if those numbers are accurate, I'd agree and am just an idiot. Gasol is the one guy who also struck me as a lot thicker.


Gobert's NBA.com, ESPN, and Wikipedia pages all have him listed at 258 lbs.

Chandler was listed at 235, not 240.

You are correct. Gobert is much bigger than Chandler ever was. Gobert and Mutumbo are roughly the same size.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#213 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:24 pm

FriedRise wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
He played 2 years ago.

He didn't even play in the playoffs much for Miami now. Who cares how much he played in the past?

Did you watch the Jazz in the playoffs? Gobert can't do much if your perimeter defenders kept getting blown by the opposing players. And it routinely happened.


The Jazz's DRTG in the playoffs plummeted by a good amount consistently.


This made me realise just how incredible a line up with Lonzo, Caruso and Gobert would be defensively.... offensively challenged yes but I wouldn't imagine many points being scored against it..

I generally agree, and great defense will get us through the regular season just fine, but my worry with a team full of offensively-challenged players is often times great offense > great defense. When the other team has that guy who keeps draining shots while you play perfect defense and you can't answer on the other end, it's game over.


These NBA Finals pretty squarely undercut this belief!

The Finals are featuring the #1 and #2 DRTG teams in the NBA. They were the #9 and #16 ORTG teams.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#214 » by D_GoLow » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:48 pm

https://allchgo.com/2022/06/08/why-i-would-love-if-the-bulls-traded-patrick-williams-for-rudy-gobert/

Per Will Gottlieb

In summary he warns about Pat's potential and the likelyhood on it actually panning out with him. Is Williams realistic upside top 25 in the league? Rarely do prospects reach their peak outcome and even if Pat does, there's no guarantee it's anything close to what Gobert is presently doing. None of this is to say Williams is a bad player and he should definitely be traded but holding onto upside for the sake of holding on to upside is a dangerous game. If they decide they would leverage him to trade for a star player, I'm not sure one better than Gobert will become available.

It would be gut wrenching to see Williams become a star on another team, but that's the cost of trading for star players.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#215 » by Jcool0 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:57 pm

D_GoLow wrote:https://allchgo.com/2022/06/08/why-i-would-love-if-the-bulls-traded-patrick-williams-for-rudy-gobert/

Per Will Gottlieb


interesting wasn't he against this yesterday?
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#216 » by sco » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:58 pm

D_GoLow wrote:https://allchgo.com/2022/06/08/why-i-would-love-if-the-bulls-traded-patrick-williams-for-rudy-gobert/

Per Will Gottlieb


Offensively, Gobert is far from net neutral. He’s the screen assist king, leading the league every year since the stat was counted. The Jazz generated a league leading 15.3 points on Gobert screens. He would immediately create scoring avenues for DeRozan and LaVine — if you help on the ball handler, he’s getting an easy lob. If the defense plays DeRozan one-on-one…we all know what’s happening.


I think this is a key/overlooked value that Gobert brings that Vuc absolutely did not. How many bunnies did Vuc miss at the rim last season? A LOT.

I also echo the point that P Will is much more likely to end-up as a 2nd or 3rd quartile starter than he is to become an allstar. Also, we could use our 18th pick to find a future PF and our MLE on a guy like Thad or maybe trade Coby for a guy like Rui.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#217 » by D_GoLow » Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:59 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
D_GoLow wrote:https://allchgo.com/2022/06/08/why-i-would-love-if-the-bulls-traded-patrick-williams-for-rudy-gobert/

Per Will Gottlieb


interesting wasn't he against this yesterday?


Haha I'm not sure, it's a good read!
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#218 » by chitownsports4ever » Wed Jun 8, 2022 3:00 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
BullChit wrote:
This made me realise just how incredible a line up with Lonzo, Caruso and Gobert would be defensively.... offensively challenged yes but I wouldn't imagine many points being scored against it..


I generally agree, and great defense will get us through the regular season just fine, but my worry with a team full of offensively-challenged players is often times great offense > great defense. When the other team has that guy who keeps draining shots while you play perfect defense and you can't answer on the other end, it's game over.
[/qote]

These NBA Finals pretty squarely undercut this belief!

The Finals are featuring the #1 and #2 DRTG teams in the NBA. They were the #9 and #16 ORTG teams.


I dont think so Tatum, Brown, Curry, Klay ,and even Poole have shown themselves to be elite scorers of which that lineup wouldn't have nearly the same offensive capabilities

Im sure that lineup would be able to hold teams close to the 104 ppg that Boston has this year but I doubt they would be able to consistently score more than that as well.

This doesn't even take into account that some of our lineup would probably be on minute restrictions in the regular season for the rest of their careers.

The Bulls prior to Zachs injury in Jan had the #13 ORTG and the #4 DRTG
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#219 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 8, 2022 3:03 pm

Jcool0 wrote:Vuc is a 25M player. He is a 2x All Star.


Based on last year, Vuc, is a 10M dollar player.

Gobert is a 4x All NBA player, 3x All-Star, 6x All-Defensive & 3x DPOTY. Who just had 15.6 ppg on 71% shooting and 14.7 rebounds season.

He might not be worth 45 million at age 33 (there are a lot of guys you could say that about). But lets not act like he isn't an elite player.


If you look at other top notch defensive players with limited offensive skills, they generally aren't 30%+ cap guys. Particularly when they can't defend the perimeter in today's NBA. I'd say going backwards, Gobert is probably a 30Mish player, but we aren't going backwards, we're looking forwards.
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Re: O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson 

Post#220 » by Jcool0 » Wed Jun 8, 2022 3:06 pm

D_GoLow wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
D_GoLow wrote:https://allchgo.com/2022/06/08/why-i-would-love-if-the-bulls-traded-patrick-williams-for-rudy-gobert/

Per Will Gottlieb


interesting wasn't he against this yesterday?


Haha I'm not sure, it's a good read!


from earlier in this thread

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