How many single season duos over 2020 LeBron/AD?

[colts18]

I don't think Davis has a good argument vs peak Robinson and I don't think 1999 Admiral was worse than Mourning. Malone is a close call (I'd probably take Malone) and Shaq was better, but with his complete lack of defensive effort you can make a case that Robinson was more impactful.

Still, Davis wasn't clearly the best or second best player in 2020. Giannis, Harden and Jokic existed during that season. In retrospective, I'm not sure I'd take Davis over Giannis for example.

The only reason you can argue Robinson as one of the top 2 players in 1999 is because 1999 is the weakest year in NBA history. Any other year we wouldn't have a conversation that 1999 Robinson was a top 2 player. He definitely was not on the same level as 2020 Giannis and it's not close.

Just how weak was 1999? Karl Malone won MVP that year at age 35. That was maybe his 8th best season of his career.

[70sFan]

I don't think Davis has a good argument vs peak Robinson and I don't think 1999 Admiral was worse than Mourning. Malone is a close call (I'd probably take Malone) and Shaq was better, but with his complete lack of defensive effort you can make a case that Robinson was more impactful.

Still, Davis wasn't clearly the best or second best player in 2020. Giannis, Harden and Jokic existed during that season. In retrospective, I'm not sure I'd take Davis over Giannis for example.

The only reason you can argue Robinson as one of the top 2 players in 1999 is because 1999 is the weakest year in NBA history. Any other year we wouldn't have a conversation that 1999 Robinson was a top 2 player. He definitely was not on the same level as 2020 Giannis and it's not close.

Just how weak was 1999? Karl Malone won MVP that year at age 35. That was maybe his 8th best season of his career.

I mean, Robinson had very solid case for top 2 in 1998 as well. You said you can't make a case for Admiral, now you say it's only because of competition.

2020 season is also one of the weaker ones in terms of top tier talent. We lost Durant and Curry for the whole season. I don't know how you can say that Davis was easily better than Harden, Giannis, Jokic or Kawhi throughout the whole season. He played very well in the playoffs, but so did some of these players and he doesn't compare to them in RS (or at any other point of his career to be honest).

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah, I'm definitely lower on that run than you. I think it was his 4th best finals maybe? Certainly below 2016 and 2016, likely below 2017 and 2018 as well, though context is much different here.
About full runs, I don't know - I'd probably take all of 2009, 2012-14, 2016-18 and 2015 also has a case (though probably not).

Sorry, meant winning finals lol, so 2012/13/16/20

I would take it over 2013 and 2015. 2016-2018 above it too. 09 as well, although there’s that completeness aspect of that

I view LeBron as still all-time great offensive player (but not on his 2012-18 level) and elite defensively, though no longer at his absolute peak. Don't know if I can say anything more specific than that.

Hmm, so I do think his defense was prolly near his best, technically I think it grades out as his best but I’m not sure about that fully, I agree on his offense but I still think his playmaking was great and probably better than his Miami days.

I think it’s better than his 2013 playoff run, I’m not sure about 2014 because idk if his defense was good during the run since it wasn’t nearly as good in the RS.

I don't have that much problems with Davis ability to create his own shots (at least in the bubble). I have more problems with him having no impact as a playmaker.

That’s fair, but I feel he’s at the very least decent in that regard. The Lakers are really bad in terms of allowing playmaking reads from the post so I don’t think it’s all on him, brons had an issue with his passing in the post as well I think because of that as well

I wouldn't call James the best or second best defender in the bubble. He had a lot of impact, but his (let's call it) defensive usage was significantly lower than Gobert's or Giannis. Davis was marvelous defensively in that period though, can't deny that.

I think we have ATG offense + defense duo vs elite offense + GOAT defense duo here. To me it's not that clear that Lakers duo is much more impactul, to the point where there is nothing to talk about. Lakers defense was certainly impressive, but it's nothing compared to what Twin Towers did against their opponents. I mean, even the best inside player ever looked miserable against them.

So Giannis I’m not sure because I think they just got their game plans wrong, and I’m just not sure how he was at the bubble but I don’t remember him being quite the same level of defender

Gobert I felt want particularly great defensively in the bubble, granted he was going against Jokic but Jokic really just ate him alive. He did great against AD of course but he really ate gobert alive from what I remember

I’d say my issue comes from that I think the best team you can build around AD and Lebron (those bubble versions) is a good deal better, and the floor is also quite a bit higher. Otoh a lot of it comes from like, era and stuff like that, since I’d assume that they translate backwards better than the Duncan and Robinson duo translate forwards (not that they would do so poorly)

[homecourtloss]

The 2020 Lakers won the championship and lebron was their second best defender and was their anchor in a few games when they would make AD play a more wing defensive role what are you talking about lol

“Dubious on defense” It doesn’t matter how much evidence is posted—these takes continue.

LeBron was the driver of their regular season success and was their best/second best defensive player at the age of 35 while being the primary offense initiator which is pretty much unprecedented.

2020 March 31st before the bubble:

LeBron On, AD off, 777 minutes: 113.5 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg, +10.3 [DRtg equivalent to 2nd best in the NBA], points differential equivalent to an all-time teams’.

AD ON, LeBron off, 572 minutes: 111.9 ORtg, 114.4 DRtg, -2.5 [DRtg equivalent to 28th in the NBA], points differential like that of a lottery team.

RPM:

James, +9.58 (6th on offense, 4th on defense; before the “formula change,” James had a historic RPM)
Davis, +2.53

RAPM:

James, +3.5 (5th overall, 32nd on offense, 4th on defense)
Davis, +.60 (130th overall, 240th on offense, 105 on defense)

2020 Lakers’ DRtg when player is on court:

THT: 111.2
Rondo: 107.3
KCP: 107.2
AD: 106.4
Howard: 106.4
Green: 106.0
McGee: 105.7
Kuzma: 105.2
Dion: 105.0
Bradley: 104.0
Morris: 103.4
Daniels: 102.7
Cook: 102.5
Caruso: 101.0
Dudley: 98.4

DRtgs for LeBron Pairs:

James + Cook: 90.8 (11.7 better with LeBron)
James + Rondo: 100.1 (7.2 better with LeBron)
James + Caruso: 95.1 (5.9 better with LeBron)
James + Kuzma: 99.8 (5.4 better with LeBron)
James + Davis: 103.2 (3.2 better with LeBron)
James + KCP: 104.2 (3.0 better with LeBron)
James + Howard: 104.5 (1.9 better with LeBron)
James + Green: 104.7 (1.3 better with LeBron)
James + Bradley: 103.1 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + Morris: 102.5 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + McGee: 105.2 (.7 better with LeBron)
James + Daniels: 102.6 (.1 better with LeBron)
James + Dudley: 102.1 (3.7 worse with LeBron)

LeBron 2020 play type tracking defense as of July 31st

Post up: .63 PPP, top 7%
Pick and roll ball handler: .68 PPP, top 8%
Spot up: .82 PPP, top 12%
ISO: .76 PPP, top 25%
Handoffs: .77 PPP, top 25%
Off screens: .91, top 42%

LeBron’s contesting shots before the bubble

Overall, opponents shot -5.4% worse than average
3 Pointers, -7.4%
2 Pointers, -4.4%
Less than 6ft, -6.7%
Less Than 10 Ft, -4.7%
Greater Than 15 FT, -6.1%

great post

buy why "formula change" in ""?is there a story there?

I don’t know, but there was a formula change in 2020 and then in 2021 as well. Before the change each time, LeBron had a massive lead on everybody.