If LeBron went to the Warriors in 2014 do you think he would be considered the undisputed GOAT by most people.

[Amares]

Yes, he would have 7 rings at least now, member and 1st option of GOAT team, GOAT Finals performances, GOAT prime and longevity, GOAT stats and achievements. It wouldn't be even question for most people, because they count rings and MVPs as the main criteria, and with all the rest, only LeBron haters (Jordan fans) would try to deny that. Of course there's difference between what most think and reasonable debate we would continue here on the board, but still most would see him as GOAT, if not clear then at least nr 1 of all-time.

[scrabbarista]

First, at the press conference, in need of a narrative in the absence of Going Home, LeBron would double down on his "not five... not six..." snafu, and would add one, finishing at "not seven..." When camp opened, LeBron would be wearing #8. When questioned, he would laugh and say, "You'll see."

Almost immediately in the preseason, rumors would swirl that LeBron's heliocentric approach was not gelling with rookie head coach Steve Kerr's preferred egalitarian style. With the team at 3-1, Klay Thompson would suffer a season-ending achilles tear. Later that week, LeBron would bump into Kerr "accidentally" when returning to a huddle. Kerr would be seen mouthing words that looked like, "I punched Jordan," but he was only looking down at his clipboard when he said it, so it wasn't clear whether he was talking to anyone in particular. It seemed, however, that he was likely speaking loud enough for LeBron to hear him. With the team at 34-23, Stephen Curry would go down for the season with an MCL. From this point on, LeBron would take over the offense, and Kerr would just sit resignedly in his chair most of the time, seeming to count the days until the season would end, LeBron would fire him, and he could start collecting them checks. LeBron, feeling the pressure of his #8 jersey, wouldn't make time to go to Miami to re-juice, and as a result, his season would suffer, as he would finish averaging only 22 points per game, and find that passing out to the likes of Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, and Leandro Barbosa was not conducive to boosting his assist numbers.

The team would hold on to home court advantage and face the #5 Houston Rockets led by James Harden and Josh Smith. The series would reach a seventh game in Oakland. With the Warriors only down 3 nearing halftime, LeBron would be seen with his head in his hands on the bench. A teammate would nudge him, and he would snap out of it and start clapping as David Lee drew a shooting foul near the basket. Rumors would swirl that perhaps LeBron was distraught because he was injured. He would play up to this idea after the game when he would show up to the press conference in a mysterious cast. He would not comment on the cast, even when asked. In the game, LeBron put up a triple double but shot poorly, and the team's shooting woes extended even to the free throw line, where they shot a woeful 55% for the game. The Warriors would go home in the first round, losing by seven points to the Rockets. Excited at the idea of beating the four-in-a-row Eastern Conference Champion LeBron James, Patrick Beverley would jump on the scorers table before then getting swept by the #1 seeded Oklahoma City Thunder (with a healthy Durant) in Round Two. The Finals would be a ratings debacle, with the San Antonio Spurs defeating the Atlanta Hawks (no LeBron in the way! the ECF was a clear path!) in seven games. The ESPN narrative was "Pop Against His Protege." The viewing public... well... they didn't view.

Steve Kerr would "resign" in the off season, saying he wanted to spend time with his family. He would join the Spurs as Pop's lead assistant about a month later. LeBron would waver over whether to stay or go (for one more year, of course), but would ultimately stay on the condition that the team would sign the coach he wanted. The team, with no championships since 1975, would be forced to oblige him, and he'd select Mark Jackson, meaning Jackson would've essentially been payed for a year off before re-upping with the team.

I'm not sure what happens next. The real Finals are starting.

[No-more-rings]

Undisputed, no because a lot of people would probably look at the Warrior rings as illegitimate.

[JordansBulls]

If he did, nobody would realize how good Curry/Klay are. Draymond wouldn't be a starter, as nobody would know how good he is.

Curry/Klay/Barnes/LBJ/Bogut with Iggy off the bench would still be ridiculous... and LBJ would get all the credit, as usual.

This, Curry nor Klay probably become the players they become the same as if Lebron had went elsewhere instead of Detroit.

[JordansBulls]

Lebron, IMO, has the best case for GOAT. It isn't beyond a reasonable doubt but it is the strongest argument. And there are stupid arguments made against him. I'm on record saying I don't think his teams couldn't have made 10 finals if the conferences were balanced. But it is absurd to treat losing in the finals as better than not making the finals.

these GOAT debates can hinge on choices unrelated to basketball.

I'd phrase it differently, identifying the GOAT in team sports is much harder than an individual sports. It isn't "choice unrelated to basketball" but rather a dispute about how to weigh "basketball related environmental factors."

An example, Some factor into their rankings ability to lead an ATG team. And out of those people some only consider what actually happened rather than what could have happened.

For them, it matters that MJ led 3+ ten SRS teams. Kareem did it twice in his prime, and while one didn't win title but they lost to another +10 SRS team and outscored em in the series. Lebron's teams didn't. Accordingly those people, and I don't agree with em, think that Lebron for whatever reason couldn't lead ATG teams.

I'm not saying you have to agree with weighing ability to lead an ATG team into the GOAT consideration. I don't agree with the approach of only looking at what happened rather than what could have happened.

But this analysis isn't unrelated to basketball.

when you switch teams 4x and join stars it is a lot easier to have success. Lebron for the team that drafted him won 1 title in 11 years. Many other stars who weren't as good and played for franchises that had no success did better than that. Also others never lost with HCA as much as Lebron did which was 3x including losing to Dwight Howard with HCA and Dirk with it. Just saying.

[scrabbarista]

First, at the press conference, in need of a narrative in the absence of Going Home, LeBron would double down on his "not five... not six..." snafu, and would add one, finishing at "not seven..." When camp opened, LeBron would be wearing #8. When questioned, he would laugh and say, "You'll see."

Almost immediately in the preseason, rumors would swirl that LeBron's heliocentric approach was not gelling with rookie head coach Steve Kerr's preferred egalitarian style. With the team at 3-1, Klay Thompson would suffer a season-ending achilles tear. Later that week, LeBron would bump into Kerr "accidentally" when returning to a huddle. Kerr would be seen mouthing words that looked like, "I punched Jordan," but he was only looking down at his clipboard when he said it, so it wasn't clear whether he was talking to anyone in particular. It seemed, however, that he was likely speaking loud enough for LeBron to hear him. With the team at 34-23, Stephen Curry would go down for the season with an MCL. From this point on, LeBron would take over the offense, and Kerr would just sit resignedly in his chair most of the time, seeming to count the days until the season would end, LeBron would fire him, and he could start collecting them checks. LeBron, feeling the pressure of his #8 jersey, wouldn't make time to go to Miami to re-juice, and as a result, his season would suffer, as he would finish averaging only 22 points per game, and find that passing out to the likes of Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, and Leandro Barbosa was not conducive to boosting his assist numbers.

The team would hold on to home court advantage and face the #5 Houston Rockets led by James Harden and Josh Smith. The series would reach a seventh game in Oakland. With the Warriors only down 3 nearing halftime, LeBron would be seen with his head in his hands on the bench. A teammate would nudge him, and he would snap out of it and start clapping as David Lee drew a shooting foul near the basket. Rumors would swirl that perhaps LeBron was distraught because he was injured. He would play up to this idea after the game when he would show up to the press conference in a mysterious cast. He would not comment on the cast, even when asked. In the game, LeBron put up a triple double but shot poorly, and the team's shooting woes extended even to the free throw line, where they shot a woeful 55% for the game. The Warriors would go home in the first round, losing by seven points to the Rockets. Excited at the idea of beating the four-in-a-row Eastern Conference Champion LeBron James, Patrick Beverley would jump on the scorers table before then getting swept by the #1 seeded Oklahoma City Thunder (with a healthy Durant) in Round Two. The Finals would be a ratings debacle, with the San Antonio Spurs defeating the Atlanta Hawks (no LeBron in the way! the ECF was a clear path!) in seven games. The ESPN narrative was "Pop Against His Protege." The viewing public... well... they didn't view.

Steve Kerr would "resign" in the off season, saying he wanted to spend time with his family. He would join the Spurs as Pop's lead assistant about a month later. LeBron would waver over whether to stay or go (for one more year, of course), but would ultimately stay on the condition that the team would sign the coach he wanted. The team, with no championships since 1975, would be forced to oblige him, and he'd select Mark Jackson, meaning Jackson would've essentially been payed for a year off before re-upping with the team.

I'm not sure what happens next. The real Finals are starting.

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

[scrabbarista]

First, at the press conference, in need of a narrative in the absence of Going Home, LeBron would double down on his "not five... not six..." snafu, and would add one, finishing at "not seven..." When camp opened, LeBron would be wearing #8. When questioned, he would laugh and say, "You'll see."

Almost immediately in the preseason, rumors would swirl that LeBron's heliocentric approach was not gelling with rookie head coach Steve Kerr's preferred egalitarian style. With the team at 3-1, Klay Thompson would suffer a season-ending achilles tear. Later that week, LeBron would bump into Kerr "accidentally" when returning to a huddle. Kerr would be seen mouthing words that looked like, "I punched Jordan," but he was only looking down at his clipboard when he said it, so it wasn't clear whether he was talking to anyone in particular. It seemed, however, that he was likely speaking loud enough for LeBron to hear him. With the team at 34-23, Stephen Curry would go down for the season with an MCL. From this point on, LeBron would take over the offense, and Kerr would just sit resignedly in his chair most of the time, seeming to count the days until the season would end, LeBron would fire him, and he could start collecting them checks. LeBron, feeling the pressure of his #8 jersey, wouldn't make time to go to Miami to re-juice, and as a result, his season would suffer, as he would finish averaging only 22 points per game, and find that passing out to the likes of Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, and Leandro Barbosa was not conducive to boosting his assist numbers.

The team would hold on to home court advantage and face the #5 Houston Rockets led by James Harden and Josh Smith. The series would reach a seventh game in Oakland. With the Warriors only down 3 nearing halftime, LeBron would be seen with his head in his hands on the bench. A teammate would nudge him, and he would snap out of it and start clapping as David Lee drew a shooting foul near the basket. Rumors would swirl that perhaps LeBron was distraught because he was injured. He would play up to this idea after the game when he would show up to the press conference in a mysterious cast. He would not comment on the cast, even when asked. In the game, LeBron put up a triple double but shot poorly, and the team's shooting woes extended even to the free throw line, where they shot a woeful 55% for the game. The Warriors would go home in the first round, losing by seven points to the Rockets. Excited at the idea of beating the four-in-a-row Eastern Conference Champion LeBron James, Patrick Beverley would jump on the scorers table before then getting swept by the #1 seeded Oklahoma City Thunder (with a healthy Durant) in Round Two. The Finals would be a ratings debacle, with the San Antonio Spurs defeating the Atlanta Hawks (no LeBron in the way! the ECF was a clear path!) in seven games. The ESPN narrative was "Pop Against His Protege." The viewing public... well... they didn't view.

Steve Kerr would "resign" in the off season, saying he wanted to spend time with his family. He would join the Spurs as Pop's lead assistant about a month later. LeBron would waver over whether to stay or go (for one more year, of course), but would ultimately stay on the condition that the team would sign the coach he wanted. The team, with no championships since 1975, would be forced to oblige him, and he'd select Mark Jackson, meaning Jackson would've essentially been payed for a year off before re-upping with the team.

I'm not sure what happens next. The real Finals are starting.

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

[PhiEaglesfan712]

First, at the press conference, in need of a narrative in the absence of Going Home, LeBron would double down on his "not five... not six..." snafu, and would add one, finishing at "not seven..." When camp opened, LeBron would be wearing #8. When questioned, he would laugh and say, "You'll see."

Almost immediately in the preseason, rumors would swirl that LeBron's heliocentric approach was not gelling with rookie head coach Steve Kerr's preferred egalitarian style. With the team at 3-1, Klay Thompson would suffer a season-ending achilles tear. Later that week, LeBron would bump into Kerr "accidentally" when returning to a huddle. Kerr would be seen mouthing words that looked like, "I punched Jordan," but he was only looking down at his clipboard when he said it, so it wasn't clear whether he was talking to anyone in particular. It seemed, however, that he was likely speaking loud enough for LeBron to hear him. With the team at 34-23, Stephen Curry would go down for the season with an MCL. From this point on, LeBron would take over the offense, and Kerr would just sit resignedly in his chair most of the time, seeming to count the days until the season would end, LeBron would fire him, and he could start collecting them checks. LeBron, feeling the pressure of his #8 jersey, wouldn't make time to go to Miami to re-juice, and as a result, his season would suffer, as he would finish averaging only 22 points per game, and find that passing out to the likes of Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, and Leandro Barbosa was not conducive to boosting his assist numbers.

The team would hold on to home court advantage and face the #5 Houston Rockets led by James Harden and Josh Smith. The series would reach a seventh game in Oakland. With the Warriors only down 3 nearing halftime, LeBron would be seen with his head in his hands on the bench. A teammate would nudge him, and he would snap out of it and start clapping as David Lee drew a shooting foul near the basket. Rumors would swirl that perhaps LeBron was distraught because he was injured. He would play up to this idea after the game when he would show up to the press conference in a mysterious cast. He would not comment on the cast, even when asked. In the game, LeBron put up a triple double but shot poorly, and the team's shooting woes extended even to the free throw line, where they shot a woeful 55% for the game. The Warriors would go home in the first round, losing by seven points to the Rockets. Excited at the idea of beating the four-in-a-row Eastern Conference Champion LeBron James, Patrick Beverley would jump on the scorers table before then getting swept by the #1 seeded Oklahoma City Thunder (with a healthy Durant) in Round Two. The Finals would be a ratings debacle, with the San Antonio Spurs defeating the Atlanta Hawks (no LeBron in the way! the ECF was a clear path!) in seven games. The ESPN narrative was "Pop Against His Protege." The viewing public... well... they didn't view.

Steve Kerr would "resign" in the off season, saying he wanted to spend time with his family. He would join the Spurs as Pop's lead assistant about a month later. LeBron would waver over whether to stay or go (for one more year, of course), but would ultimately stay on the condition that the team would sign the coach he wanted. The team, with no championships since 1975, would be forced to oblige him, and he'd select Mark Jackson, meaning Jackson would've essentially been payed for a year off before re-upping with the team.

I'm not sure what happens next. The real Finals are starting.

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

2017-18 season: LeBron plays all 82 games and puts up the best statistical season of his career, winning his 5th regular season MVP award, and leading the 76ers to a 76-6 regular season record. The Sixers are dominant in the playoffs, going 16-1, only dropping a single game in the conference semifinals to the Pacers before sweeping the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals and the Rockets in the NBA Finals. LeBron signs a 4-year, $140 million extension with the Sixers.

[scrabbarista]

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

2017-18 season: LeBron plays all 82 games and puts up the best statistical season of his career, winning his 5th regular season MVP award, and leading the 76ers to a 76-6 regular season record. The Sixers are dominant in the playoffs, going 16-1, only dropping a single game in the conference semifinals to the Pacers before sweeping the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals and the Rockets in the NBA Finals. LeBron signs a 4-year, $140 million extension with the Sixers.

Slow down, bruh! I'm 2K-simming these!

[falcolombardi]

i dont believe in ring counting determining a player goat ranking, it may be a part of it but always related to how well and for how long the dude actually played

of course, wr all are influenced by rings consiously or otherwise

[falcolombardi]

First, at the press conference, in need of a narrative in the absence of Going Home, LeBron would double down on his "not five... not six..." snafu, and would add one, finishing at "not seven..." When camp opened, LeBron would be wearing #8. When questioned, he would laugh and say, "You'll see."

Almost immediately in the preseason, rumors would swirl that LeBron's heliocentric approach was not gelling with rookie head coach Steve Kerr's preferred egalitarian style. With the team at 3-1, Klay Thompson would suffer a season-ending achilles tear. Later that week, LeBron would bump into Kerr "accidentally" when returning to a huddle. Kerr would be seen mouthing words that looked like, "I punched Jordan," but he was only looking down at his clipboard when he said it, so it wasn't clear whether he was talking to anyone in particular. It seemed, however, that he was likely speaking loud enough for LeBron to hear him. With the team at 34-23, Stephen Curry would go down for the season with an MCL. From this point on, LeBron would take over the offense, and Kerr would just sit resignedly in his chair most of the time, seeming to count the days until the season would end, LeBron would fire him, and he could start collecting them checks. LeBron, feeling the pressure of his #8 jersey, wouldn't make time to go to Miami to re-juice, and as a result, his season would suffer, as he would finish averaging only 22 points per game, and find that passing out to the likes of Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, and Leandro Barbosa was not conducive to boosting his assist numbers.

The team would hold on to home court advantage and face the #5 Houston Rockets led by James Harden and Josh Smith. The series would reach a seventh game in Oakland. With the Warriors only down 3 nearing halftime, LeBron would be seen with his head in his hands on the bench. A teammate would nudge him, and he would snap out of it and start clapping as David Lee drew a shooting foul near the basket. Rumors would swirl that perhaps LeBron was distraught because he was injured. He would play up to this idea after the game when he would show up to the press conference in a mysterious cast. He would not comment on the cast, even when asked. In the game, LeBron put up a triple double but shot poorly, and the team's shooting woes extended even to the free throw line, where they shot a woeful 55% for the game. The Warriors would go home in the first round, losing by seven points to the Rockets. Excited at the idea of beating the four-in-a-row Eastern Conference Champion LeBron James, Patrick Beverley would jump on the scorers table before then getting swept by the #1 seeded Oklahoma City Thunder (with a healthy Durant) in Round Two. The Finals would be a ratings debacle, with the San Antonio Spurs defeating the Atlanta Hawks (no LeBron in the way! the ECF was a clear path!) in seven games. The ESPN narrative was "Pop Against His Protege." The viewing public... well... they didn't view.

Steve Kerr would "resign" in the off season, saying he wanted to spend time with his family. He would join the Spurs as Pop's lead assistant about a month later. LeBron would waver over whether to stay or go (for one more year, of course), but would ultimately stay on the condition that the team would sign the coach he wanted. The team, with no championships since 1975, would be forced to oblige him, and he'd select Mark Jackson, meaning Jackson would've essentially been payed for a year off before re-upping with the team.

I'm not sure what happens next. The real Finals are starting.

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

lmao, this is awesome

[scrabbarista]

The following off-season, Kevin Love, his value still high and seeking his first championship, would engineer a sign-and-trade to OKC for Ibaka and Adams.

LeBron would return to the Warriors, now wearing #25; I don't know why, other than that Draymond already had #23 and wouldn't give it up. This would create tension (as if any extra would be necessary) between Dray and Lebb for the entire season. (Dray told LeBron to "fit in or fit out" on twitter, and Lebb changed his nickname to one-syllable to go along with Steph, Dray, and Klay.)

The Warriors would take the first seed closely, and Lebb's numbers would rebound from the previous season. He'd be First Team All-NBA, but the rest of the Warriors would be seen as merely his supporting cast. The Warriors would cruise past Denver 4-1 in the First Round before annihilating Utah 4-0 in Round Two. The "real Finals" would occur in the 2016 WCF, where the Warriors would face the Big Three of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and Kevin Love. The series would go seven games, with Westbrook having the game of a lifetime to close out the Warriors in Oakland. LeBron would play great, but once again, as always seems to happen, his teammates would let him down. Draymond would be suspended during the Finals, Bogut would get injured, and Curry would be rumored to be playing hurt. Haha, jk about all those details, but long story short, his teammates would let LeBron down once again. The Thunder would go on to defeat the Raptors (yup! that Eastern Conference again!) in the 2016 Finals, and Durant would re-sign with OKC in the summer. Lebb would gaze longingly Eastward again, and would decide to go with Al Horford to join youngsters Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons in Philadelphia. He would figure he could add another star next off-season (as he did with Anthony Davis) if the blue chips didn't fully cash in. He also figured that he was pretty much good enough by himself (with Horford) to guarantee a trip to the Finals against the woeful Leastern Conference.

Current count going in to 2016-17 = LeBron with one fewer championship than he got in Cleveland.

To be continued...

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

lmao, this is awesome

LeBron comes into the '17-'18 season wearing #31. No one even asks anymore, as it seems to have become a yearly tradition for him to change jersey numbers. Embiid ascends to superstar status, garnering 2nd Team All-NBA. LeBron is on the 1st Team, of course, and the team secures the #1 seed, LeBron's third in a row. This feels like it could be the season James wins his third title, as the team has added shooters without giving up anyone from its incredible front court. They've been the betting favorite all season.

Round One is against the Pacers, a team without a real star. (More on that later.) Philly handles its business and sweeps 4-0. Round Two is a rematch of the previous season's ECF, and once again LeBron stands in the way of an ascendant Milwaukee Bucks team. Milwaukee goes up 3-0 as its nameless, headless, white-gloved coach decides to go to a seven-man rotation to counter the Sixers super-deep nine-man one. Fatigue seems to set in, though, and Philly storms back, winning the next two. The Coach decides to stretch his rotation to eight to give his starters some respite, but the momentum is all on Philly's side, and another epic LeBron Game Seven is set for Philadelphia. Will LeBron add "only team ever to come back from 0-3" onto his resume? Philly leads by 7 with about 45 seconds left, but for some reason, Ben Simmons is left out on the floor. He goes 1-4 in Hack-A-Ben, and Milwaukee gets a decent look at the buzzer - a moderately guarded catch-and-shoot from Khris Middleton for the tie. The shot rims out, and Embiid collapses at mid-court with the ball in his hands, Dikembe-Mutombo style. The Sixers feel like a Team of Destiny.

The ECF presents a butterfly-effected Toronto Raptors Big Three of Paul George (from IND in a trade), DeMar DeRozan, and Kyle Lowry as foils to LeBron's "Infinite Quest." (LeBron is filmed reading Infinite Jest upside down in the locker room during the First Round: the set up by "his team" for his new image as a brainy intellectual on a never-ending journey to be the Greatest.) LeBronto proves to be a real thing, though, and Philly nicely turns away the Raptors 4-1.

LeBron returns to the Finals for the second year in a row (sixth out of eight; sixth straight in the East) and faces his Banana Bro CP3 - and MVP James Harden - in the Finals. The series goes according to form until Game 6 in Philadelphia. It comes down to the final possession, when James Harden secures a 109-107 victory by stripping LeBron in the lane as he attempts to go up for the game-tying shot. LeBron comes up short again. The Infinite Quest continues.

Through 2017-18: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, and James Harden = one championship.
Steph, Klay, Dray, Lebb, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

Stay tuned for 2019, as the butterfly continues to spread its wings.

[DQuinn1575]

No, people don't take Wilt's stats seriously because we don't have much footage from that era and most people assume he played against amateurs and midgets.

Most people trust me 70's fan trust me don't take his numbers seriously because of his lack of winning and his scoring numbers dropping in the playoffs.

Plus they use the pace argument.


Wilt with 8 to 9 rings would be ranked number 1 on every single list nowadays as 95 percent of people know he wasn't facing amateurs and midgets.

On PC Board they know, but you can go as closely as GB to see ridiculous takes about Wilt's competition. If you go outside RealGM, you'll see that most people have no clue about 1960s basketball and it wouldn't change with more amount of rings.

I'm sure his position on all-time list would improve, but not to the degree that he'd be undisputed GOAT.

Another example - literally nobody has George Mikan as the GOAT, despite him having a lot of rings and dominating like nobody in history. Wilt's era is often mistaken with Mikan's era, as both were captured by B&W cameras.

If Wilt had as many (or more) titles than Russell than he would have been the undisputed GOAT prior to Kareem.
That would hold if Wilt had more titles than Kareem.
And again, Jordan as a guard would not have surpassed Wilt.
But that shipped has sailed so it doesnt really matter, and now we are at the point where it seems unlikely we will have an undisputed GOAT, at least for a long time.

[prolific passer]

The nba goat argument is so worn out with a lot of stupid opinions from people on it.

[scrabbarista]

LeBron returns in his vaunted #23 jersey, and 2017 Philly finishes with the first seed. In the middle of a First Round matchup with Charlotte, rookie Ben Simmons plays the first game of his career, inspired by his teammate and hero, LeBron James. The series goes seven. Kemba Walker puts up 40 in the final game, but Philly is too much and advances. In Round Two, Philly comfortably handles a Horford-less (because he's on Philly) Boston 4-1. The Milwaukee Bucks arrive in ECF ahead of schedule and are easily dispatched by LeBron and Company, also 4-1. The NBA Finals are a rematch of the previous year's WCF: LeBron against the Thunder. Unlike the previous season, this year LeBron does not have home court advantage. With the series tied 2-2, Kevin Love goes down, seeming to open the door for a Philly title. However, the Thunder role players rally in Game 5 and OKC takes a 3-2 lead. The Sixers respond in Philly, setting up a LeBron v. Thunder Game 7 for the second season in a row. The execs couldn't be more thrilled. Philly goes up by 16 in the third, but their offense goes cold and the Thunder eek out a two-point coin toss of a victory reminiscent of the actual (now, non-existent) 2016 Finals. The Thunder are back-to-back NBA Champions, but reaching the Finals is good enough for LeBron to sign a second one-year deal with Philadelphia. Questions swirl as to whether he'll move on ownership to trade for "another star," but with nothing but upside in two first-year players who took the champs down to the final minute of the final game, it seems the team is likely to stand pat going into 2018.

After 2016-17: LeBron has made two fewer Finals and won one fewer championship than he did in Cleveland. Three seasons down, one Cleveland season - and possibly four LAL ones - left to replace.

lmao, this is awesome

LeBron comes into the '17-'18 season wearing #31. No one even asks anymore, as it seems to have become a yearly tradition for him to change jersey numbers. Embiid ascends to superstar status, garnering 2nd Team All-NBA. LeBron is on the 1st Team, of course, and the team secures the #1 seed, LeBron's third in a row. This feels like it could be the season James wins his third title, as the team has added shooters without giving up anyone from its incredible front court. They've been the betting favorite all season.

Round One is against the Pacers, a team without a real star. (More on that later.) Philly handles its business and sweeps 4-0. Round Two is a rematch of the previous season's ECF, and once again LeBron stands in the way of an ascendant Milwaukee Bucks team. Milwaukee goes up 3-0 as its nameless, headless, white-gloved coach decides to go to a seven-man rotation to counter the Sixers super-deep nine-man one. Fatigue seems to set in, though, and Philly storms back, winning the next two. The Coach decides to stretch his rotation to eight to give his starters some respite, but the momentum is all on Philly's side, and another epic LeBron Game Seven is set for Philadelphia. Will LeBron add "only team ever to come back from 0-3" onto his resume? Philly leads by 7 with about 45 seconds left, but for some reason, Ben Simmons is left out on the floor. He goes 1-4 in Hack-A-Ben, and Milwaukee gets a decent look at the buzzer - a moderately guarded catch-and-shoot from Khris Middleton for the tie. The shot rims out, and Embiid collapses at mid-court with the ball in his hands, Dikembe-Mutombo style. The Sixers feel like a Team of Destiny.

The ECF presents a butterfly-effected Toronto Raptors Big Three of Paul George (from IND in a trade), DeMar DeRozan, and Kyle Lowry as foils to LeBron's "Infinite Quest." (LeBron is filmed reading Infinite Jest upside down in the locker room during the First Round: the set up by "his team" for his new image as a brainy intellectual on a never-ending journey to be the Greatest.) LeBronto proves to be a real thing, though, and Philly nicely turns away the Raptors 4-1.

LeBron returns to the Finals for the second year in a row (sixth out of eight; sixth straight in the East) and faces his Banana Bro CP3 - and MVP James Harden - in the Finals. The series goes according to form until Game 6 in Philadelphia. It comes down to the final possession, when James Harden secures a 109-107 victory by stripping LeBron in the lane as he attempts to go up for the game-tying shot. LeBron comes up short again. The Infinite Quest continues.

Through 2017-18: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, and James Harden = one championship.
Steph, Klay, Dray, Lebb, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

Stay tuned for 2019, as the butterfly continues to spread its wings.

The 2019 season sees turmoil in Philadelphia as the question rages: "Whose team is it, LeBron's or Joel's? Joel's or LeBron's?" Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons both make All-NBA Second Team, and LeBron makes the Third Team, fanning the flames of the idea that LeBron's time has passed. Nonetheless, the Sixers are the #1 seed for the third straight season (LeBron's fourth straight).

On the final game of the regular season, Ben Simmons suffers an abdominal thingy that puts him out for six to eight weeks. The pundits and twitter doctors wonder aloud whether he'll be back in time for the Finals. As it turns out, such questions are futile.

In a parallel to the actual 2019 season, LeBron suffers one of his career's greatest embarrassments. However, it's worse in this reality, because it's in the playoffs. The Sixers lose 3-1 in the First Round to the lowly eighth-seeded Chicago Bulls, and LeBron is outplayed by a player from Finland named Lauri. In Game 5, James Ennis goes for 22 and 7 on 8-13 from the field for Philadelphia. LeBron, on the other hand, shoots 8-25 (0-7 from three and 0-0 from the line) and puts up a pedestrian 16-7. Ben Simmons, who did not play in the series, is caught on camera exiting the stadium, shouting, "One James showed up!" In the post-game press conference, when LeBron is asked whether questions about whose team it was may have lead to the team's collapse, he responds simply with, "This is not my team." This leads to speculation the next day that LeBron may try to force the team's hand in a trade over the off-season, although he is under contract for three more years. Embiid, coincidentally, answered a similar question (before LeBron) with, "It should be clear by now whose team it is."

Such gossip is quickly forgotten, however, when all four semifinal series go seven games. In the final games there is much controversy regarding the officiating, but in the end, the favorites win all four games. This sets up a pair of Conference Finals in which the star power is undeniable: Durant, Westbrook, and Butler (OKC); Curry, Klay, and Draymond (GSW); Kawhi, PG, and Lowry (TOR); and Antetokounmpo, Middleton, and Holiday (MIL). Only Kevin Love (OKC) is out with injury. [I'd give the backstories on Butler, Kawhi, and Holiday on these teams in 2019, but this is a LeBron story, and I'm getting hungry for dinner.] The execs feel like they're on top of the world after four seven-game series, and everyone on RealGM is asking: "Is this the greatest playoffs ever?" and "Does the NBA even need LeBron?"

Unfortunately, the Conference Finals don't deliver, as the Warriors sweep OKC, and Milwaukee defeats the Raptors 4-1, setting up superstars Stephen Curry and Giannis Antetokoumpo to meet as Finals virgins. Long story short, the Finals go seven games, and Curry wins FMVP (Iguodala too old) after putting up 40-7-7 in the deciding game.

Through 2018-19: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, James Harden, Steph, Klay, and Dray, = one championship.
LeBron, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

I'm just going to do one more season (maybe not until tomorrow), partly because 2020 was LeBron's last great season, and partly because it's harder with each extra season to keep track of the results of the butterfly-effect.

Will Durant and Butler pick up their options and run it back with Westbrook, or will getting swept tear the team apart? Where will Kyrie, Kemba, and Tobias land? What about Kawhi? And, of course, what's going to happen with LeBron? Will he get Simmons - or anyone else - traded, or does he even have the clout? Will he himself be the one to go, at the hands of Joel Embiid?

Stay tuned for the final season of...

Spoiler:

If LeBron Went to the Warriors In 2014 Do You Think He Would Be Considered the Undisputed GOAT By Most People.

only on RealGM!

[Mazter]

Draymond Green was a 24 year old bench player, his ego only ballooned up after he won the first title and signed his first contract. Thompson was a 24 year old catch and shoot specialist. Both of them on the last year of their rookie contracts not really the people to challenge a mayor signing like LeBron. Even Curry was just a first time All NBA player on a moderate contract, he wouldn't even dare to challenge Durant despite being the captain of that team the previous 2 years. The 3 of them would make only 14.6M, just a little under David Lee's salary and 6M short to LeBron's. LeBron would be the alpha of that team from the get go.

If rookie coach Kerr gets enough grip to on LeBron to initiate his system, it's really a no brainer. LeBron with the Warriors core would be a major contender from the day of the trade till today, probably making it to 6-7 Finals, if not all 8. And probably winning 5-6 rings. Heck, they might even win 8 straight.

That would skyrocket him to the top of GOAT discussion. The narrative would be that he made that Warriors team a contender. Nobody seems to care about the process behind the curtains, it's all about superstars. And LeBron would become the superstar of that team. Curry-Green-Thompson would be just the Pippen-Rodman-Kukoc like cast, Kerr would be just another Phil Jackson. Getting their merits but with all the mayor praise going to LeBron.

[scrabbarista]

lmao, this is awesome

LeBron comes into the '17-'18 season wearing #31. No one even asks anymore, as it seems to have become a yearly tradition for him to change jersey numbers. Embiid ascends to superstar status, garnering 2nd Team All-NBA. LeBron is on the 1st Team, of course, and the team secures the #1 seed, LeBron's third in a row. This feels like it could be the season James wins his third title, as the team has added shooters without giving up anyone from its incredible front court. They've been the betting favorite all season.

Round One is against the Pacers, a team without a real star. (More on that later.) Philly handles its business and sweeps 4-0. Round Two is a rematch of the previous season's ECF, and once again LeBron stands in the way of an ascendant Milwaukee Bucks team. Milwaukee goes up 3-0 as its nameless, headless, white-gloved coach decides to go to a seven-man rotation to counter the Sixers super-deep nine-man one. Fatigue seems to set in, though, and Philly storms back, winning the next two. The Coach decides to stretch his rotation to eight to give his starters some respite, but the momentum is all on Philly's side, and another epic LeBron Game Seven is set for Philadelphia. Will LeBron add "only team ever to come back from 0-3" onto his resume? Philly leads by 7 with about 45 seconds left, but for some reason, Ben Simmons is left out on the floor. He goes 1-4 in Hack-A-Ben, and Milwaukee gets a decent look at the buzzer - a moderately guarded catch-and-shoot from Khris Middleton for the tie. The shot rims out, and Embiid collapses at mid-court with the ball in his hands, Dikembe-Mutombo style. The Sixers feel like a Team of Destiny.

The ECF presents a butterfly-effected Toronto Raptors Big Three of Paul George (from IND in a trade), DeMar DeRozan, and Kyle Lowry as foils to LeBron's "Infinite Quest." (LeBron is filmed reading Infinite Jest upside down in the locker room during the First Round: the set up by "his team" for his new image as a brainy intellectual on a never-ending journey to be the Greatest.) LeBronto proves to be a real thing, though, and Philly nicely turns away the Raptors 4-1.

LeBron returns to the Finals for the second year in a row (sixth out of eight; sixth straight in the East) and faces his Banana Bro CP3 - and MVP James Harden - in the Finals. The series goes according to form until Game 6 in Philadelphia. It comes down to the final possession, when James Harden secures a 109-107 victory by stripping LeBron in the lane as he attempts to go up for the game-tying shot. LeBron comes up short again. The Infinite Quest continues.

Through 2017-18: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, and James Harden = one championship.
Steph, Klay, Dray, Lebb, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

Stay tuned for 2019, as the butterfly continues to spread its wings.

The 2019 season sees turmoil in Philadelphia as the question rages: "Whose team is it, LeBron's or Joel's? Joel's or LeBron's?" Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons both make All-NBA Second Team, and LeBron makes the Third Team, fanning the flames of the idea that LeBron's time has passed. Nonetheless, the Sixers are the #1 seed for the third straight season (LeBron's fourth straight).

On the final game of the regular season, Ben Simmons suffers an abdominal thingy that puts him out for six to eight weeks. The pundits and twitter doctors wonder aloud whether he'll be back in time for the Finals. As it turns out, such questions are futile.

In a parallel to the actual 2019 season, LeBron suffers one of his career's greatest embarrassments. However, it's worse in this reality, because it's in the playoffs. The Sixers lose 3-1 in the First Round to the lowly eighth-seeded Chicago Bulls, and LeBron is outplayed by a player from Finland named Lauri. In Game 5, James Ennis goes for 22 and 7 on 8-13 from the field for Philadelphia. LeBron, on the other hand, shoots 8-25 (0-7 from three and 0-0 from the line) and puts up a pedestrian 16-7. Ben Simmons, who did not play in the series, is caught on camera exiting the stadium, shouting, "One James showed up!" In the post-game press conference, when LeBron is asked whether questions about whose team it was may have lead to the team's collapse, he responds simply with, "This is not my team." This leads to speculation the next day that LeBron may try to force the team's hand in a trade over the off-season, although he is under contract for three more years. Embiid, coincidentally, answered a similar question (before LeBron) with, "It should be clear by now whose team it is."

Such gossip is quickly forgotten, however, when all four semifinal series go seven games. In the final games there is much controversy regarding the officiating, but in the end, the favorites win all four games. This sets up a pair of Conference Finals in which the star power is undeniable: Durant, Westbrook, and Butler (OKC); Curry, Klay, and Draymond (GSW); Kawhi, PG, and Lowry (TOR); and Antetokounmpo, Middleton, and Holiday (MIL). Only Kevin Love (OKC) is out with injury. [I'd give the backstories on Butler, Kawhi, and Holiday on these teams in 2019, but this is a LeBron story, and I'm getting hungry for dinner.] The execs feel like they're on top of the world after four seven-game series, and everyone on RealGM is asking: "Is this the greatest playoffs ever?" and "Does the NBA even need LeBron?"

Unfortunately, the Conference Finals don't deliver, as the Warriors sweep OKC, and Milwaukee defeats the Raptors 4-1, setting up superstars Stephen Curry and Giannis Antetokoumpo to meet as Finals virgins. Long story short, the Finals go seven games, and Curry wins FMVP (Iguodala too old) after putting up 40-7-7 in the deciding game.

Through 2018-19: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, James Harden, Steph, Klay, and Dray, = one championship.
LeBron, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

I'm just going to do one more season (maybe not until tomorrow), partly because 2020 was LeBron's last great season, and partly because it's harder with each extra season to keep track of the results of the butterfly-effect.

Will Durant and Butler pick up their options and run it back with Westbrook, or will getting swept tear the team apart? Where will Kyrie, Kemba, and Tobias land? What about Kawhi? And, of course, what's going to happen with LeBron? Will he get Simmons - or anyone else - traded, or does he even have the clout? Will he himself be the one to go, at the hands of Joel Embiid?

Stay tuned for the final season of...

Spoiler:

If LeBron Went to the Warriors In 2014 Do You Think He Would Be Considered the Undisputed GOAT By Most People.

only on RealGM!

We've already proven beyond a shadow of the tiniest fragment of a fraction of a molecule of a scintilla of a hint of a dream of a doubt that LeBron made the right choice in going to Cleveland. [I jest, people. This whole series is just an extended joke.] He won two titles on that path, and here we are going into 2020 with him yet to win a single title since joining the Warriors. But will he go completely without a title? Who will be crowned 2020 champion?

The 2019 off-season is one for the ages, with roughly ten of the top twenty players in the league changing teams, creating new opportunities for legacy-forming achievements in the succeeding years.

Skipping over the juicy details in the rest of the league...

Joel Embiid tells the Philly front office to "Get me a player who's actually won something since I was drafted. And not a big." The front office comes up with a Chris Paul/LeBron James trade, sending LBJ to Houston to form a duo who will come to be known somewhat pompously as "the Kings James." As noted, movement abounds throughout the league, but generally the movement is away from superteam/Big Threes to Big Twos.

LeBron and Harden perform great together, as LeBron is highly motivated by the previous season's embarrassment (and his Infinite Quest brand) and is willing to actually do whatever it takes, even if that means learning to roll to the basket after setting a pick. LeBron still runs the point, don't get me wrong. He just expands his game a bit to help get the most out of Harden. Thus, Harden makes All-NBA First Team, while LeBron makes the Second Team, putting up his customary 28-8-8 Blah Blah Blah line. Houston gets the top seed, as is the norm for LeBron over these six years. Meanwhile, CP turns Joel Embiid into the MVP. Embiid averages 35 ppg and Philly takes the top seed in the East, putting the two teams on a collision course for a revenge match in the Finals.

Until Chris Paul gets hurt in the First Round, going down for 6-8 weeks. But the Sixers handle Boston 4-2, squeeze past Butler, Kyrie, and Jarrett Allen (BKN) 4-3, and then vanquish Washington (that Eastern Conference again!) 4-2 in the Conference Finals, doing their part to give the people what they want.

On the other side of the bracket, the Rockets' organizational love of small ball nearly dooms them when their only serviceable big, Tristan Thompson, is unable to play in Round One. A trio of Ayton, Saric, and Baynes punishes them inside for three of seven games, but Houston wins comfortably in Game 7, 116-98, with James, Harden, and Gordon clicking on all cylinders. Next up are the defending champion Warriors. Tristan Thompson returns, and with their full arsenal against a Harrison Barnes-less (injured) Golden State team, Houston wins 4-2. The WCF presents a fully healthy Dallas Mavericks team (Julius Randle averages 17/7 off the bench), fresh off of banishing an extremely shallow Clippers team that nonetheless featured Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard. That's when disaster strikes LeBron once again in the form of an achilles injury to James Harden, 8-10 months. Doncic averages 37/11/12 on a team that is both very deep and miraculously healthy. Houston goes down in five.

The Finals showcase MVP Embiid (38/16/3 in the ECF) against Doncic (37/11/12 in the WCF). [By the way, COVID never happens in this scenario. There goes that butterfly effect again!] CP never returns, and the series goes to seven games. If Philly wins, even LeBron's most ardent admirers and supporters will have to admit this is the ultimate in eternal shame: a team lost him (and Al Horford) and replaced him with... Josh Richardson... and then won the championship? The ultimate in eternal shame. But the Mavericks prevail, allowing LeBron stans everywhere to preserve a fantasy world in which he could have, would have, and should have done many things that he never actually did. The Mavericks sign Porzingis and Randle long-term, virtually ensuring that Doncic inevitably leaves as soon as he possibly can.

Final count from 2014-15 through 2020:

.Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
.Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, James Harden, Steph, Klay, Dray, and Doncic = one championship.
.LeBron = no championships.

[scrabbarista]

LeBron comes into the '17-'18 season wearing #31. No one even asks anymore, as it seems to have become a yearly tradition for him to change jersey numbers. Embiid ascends to superstar status, garnering 2nd Team All-NBA. LeBron is on the 1st Team, of course, and the team secures the #1 seed, LeBron's third in a row. This feels like it could be the season James wins his third title, as the team has added shooters without giving up anyone from its incredible front court. They've been the betting favorite all season.

Round One is against the Pacers, a team without a real star. (More on that later.) Philly handles its business and sweeps 4-0. Round Two is a rematch of the previous season's ECF, and once again LeBron stands in the way of an ascendant Milwaukee Bucks team. Milwaukee goes up 3-0 as its nameless, headless, white-gloved coach decides to go to a seven-man rotation to counter the Sixers super-deep nine-man one. Fatigue seems to set in, though, and Philly storms back, winning the next two. The Coach decides to stretch his rotation to eight to give his starters some respite, but the momentum is all on Philly's side, and another epic LeBron Game Seven is set for Philadelphia. Will LeBron add "only team ever to come back from 0-3" onto his resume? Philly leads by 7 with about 45 seconds left, but for some reason, Ben Simmons is left out on the floor. He goes 1-4 in Hack-A-Ben, and Milwaukee gets a decent look at the buzzer - a moderately guarded catch-and-shoot from Khris Middleton for the tie. The shot rims out, and Embiid collapses at mid-court with the ball in his hands, Dikembe-Mutombo style. The Sixers feel like a Team of Destiny.

The ECF presents a butterfly-effected Toronto Raptors Big Three of Paul George (from IND in a trade), DeMar DeRozan, and Kyle Lowry as foils to LeBron's "Infinite Quest." (LeBron is filmed reading Infinite Jest upside down in the locker room during the First Round: the set up by "his team" for his new image as a brainy intellectual on a never-ending journey to be the Greatest.) LeBronto proves to be a real thing, though, and Philly nicely turns away the Raptors 4-1.

LeBron returns to the Finals for the second year in a row (sixth out of eight; sixth straight in the East) and faces his Banana Bro CP3 - and MVP James Harden - in the Finals. The series goes according to form until Game 6 in Philadelphia. It comes down to the final possession, when James Harden secures a 109-107 victory by stripping LeBron in the lane as he attempts to go up for the game-tying shot. LeBron comes up short again. The Infinite Quest continues.

Through 2017-18: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, and James Harden = one championship.
Steph, Klay, Dray, Lebb, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

Stay tuned for 2019, as the butterfly continues to spread its wings.

The 2019 season sees turmoil in Philadelphia as the question rages: "Whose team is it, LeBron's or Joel's? Joel's or LeBron's?" Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons both make All-NBA Second Team, and LeBron makes the Third Team, fanning the flames of the idea that LeBron's time has passed. Nonetheless, the Sixers are the #1 seed for the third straight season (LeBron's fourth straight).

On the final game of the regular season, Ben Simmons suffers an abdominal thingy that puts him out for six to eight weeks. The pundits and twitter doctors wonder aloud whether he'll be back in time for the Finals. As it turns out, such questions are futile.

In a parallel to the actual 2019 season, LeBron suffers one of his career's greatest embarrassments. However, it's worse in this reality, because it's in the playoffs. The Sixers lose 3-1 in the First Round to the lowly eighth-seeded Chicago Bulls, and LeBron is outplayed by a player from Finland named Lauri. In Game 5, James Ennis goes for 22 and 7 on 8-13 from the field for Philadelphia. LeBron, on the other hand, shoots 8-25 (0-7 from three and 0-0 from the line) and puts up a pedestrian 16-7. Ben Simmons, who did not play in the series, is caught on camera exiting the stadium, shouting, "One James showed up!" In the post-game press conference, when LeBron is asked whether questions about whose team it was may have lead to the team's collapse, he responds simply with, "This is not my team." This leads to speculation the next day that LeBron may try to force the team's hand in a trade over the off-season, although he is under contract for three more years. Embiid, coincidentally, answered a similar question (before LeBron) with, "It should be clear by now whose team it is."

Such gossip is quickly forgotten, however, when all four semifinal series go seven games. In the final games there is much controversy regarding the officiating, but in the end, the favorites win all four games. This sets up a pair of Conference Finals in which the star power is undeniable: Durant, Westbrook, and Butler (OKC); Curry, Klay, and Draymond (GSW); Kawhi, PG, and Lowry (TOR); and Antetokounmpo, Middleton, and Holiday (MIL). Only Kevin Love (OKC) is out with injury. [I'd give the backstories on Butler, Kawhi, and Holiday on these teams in 2019, but this is a LeBron story, and I'm getting hungry for dinner.] The execs feel like they're on top of the world after four seven-game series, and everyone on RealGM is asking: "Is this the greatest playoffs ever?" and "Does the NBA even need LeBron?"

Unfortunately, the Conference Finals don't deliver, as the Warriors sweep OKC, and Milwaukee defeats the Raptors 4-1, setting up superstars Stephen Curry and Giannis Antetokoumpo to meet as Finals virgins. Long story short, the Finals go seven games, and Curry wins FMVP (Iguodala too old) after putting up 40-7-7 in the deciding game.

Through 2018-19: Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, James Harden, Steph, Klay, and Dray, = one championship.
LeBron, Joel, and Ben = no championships.

I'm just going to do one more season (maybe not until tomorrow), partly because 2020 was LeBron's last great season, and partly because it's harder with each extra season to keep track of the results of the butterfly-effect.

Will Durant and Butler pick up their options and run it back with Westbrook, or will getting swept tear the team apart? Where will Kyrie, Kemba, and Tobias land? What about Kawhi? And, of course, what's going to happen with LeBron? Will he get Simmons - or anyone else - traded, or does he even have the clout? Will he himself be the one to go, at the hands of Joel Embiid?

Stay tuned for the final season of...

Spoiler:

If LeBron Went to the Warriors In 2014 Do You Think He Would Be Considered the Undisputed GOAT By Most People.

only on RealGM!

We've already proven beyond a shadow of the tiniest fragment of a fraction of a molecule of a scintilla of a hint of a dream of a doubt that LeBron made the right choice in going to Cleveland. [I jest, people. This whole series is just an extended joke.] He won two titles on that path, and here we are going into 2020 with him yet to win a single title since joining the Warriors. But will he go completely without a title? Who will be crowned 2020 champion?

The 2019 off-season is one for the ages, with roughly ten of the top twenty players in the league changing teams, creating new opportunities for legacy-forming achievements in the succeeding years.

Skipping over the juicy details in the rest of the league...

Joel Embiid tells the Philly front office to "Get me a player who's actually won something since I was drafted. And not a big." The front office comes up with a Chris Paul/LeBron James trade, sending LBJ to Houston to form a duo who will come to be known somewhat pompously as "the Kings James." As noted, movement abounds throughout the league, but generally the movement is away from superteam/Big Threes to Big Twos.

LeBron and Harden perform great together, as LeBron is highly motivated by the previous season's embarrassment (and his Infinite Quest brand) and is willing to actually do whatever it takes, even if that means learning to roll to the basket after setting a pick. LeBron still runs the point, don't get me wrong. He just expands his game a bit to help get the most out of Harden. Thus, Harden makes All-NBA First Team, while LeBron makes the Second Team, putting up his customary 28-8-8 Blah Blah Blah line. Houston gets the top seed, as is the norm for LeBron over these six years. Meanwhile, CP turns Joel Embiid into the MVP. Embiid averages 35 ppg and Philly takes the top seed in the East, putting the two teams on a collision course for a revenge match in the Finals.

Until Chris Paul gets hurt in the First Round, going down for 6-8 weeks. But the Sixers handle Boston 4-2, squeeze past Butler, Kyrie, and Jarrett Allen (BKN) 4-3, and then vanquish Washington (that Eastern Conference again!) 4-2 in the Conference Finals, doing their part to give the people what they want.

On the other side of the bracket, the Rockets' organizational love of small ball nearly dooms them when their only serviceable big, Tristan Thompson, is unable to play in Round One. A trio of Ayton, Saric, and Baynes punishes them inside for three of seven games, but Houston wins comfortably in Game 7, 116-98, with James, Harden, and Gordon clicking on all cylinders. Next up are the defending champion Warriors. Tristan Thompson returns, and with their full arsenal against a Harrison Barnes-less (injured) Golden State team, Houston wins 4-2. The WCF presents a fully healthy Dallas Mavericks team (Julius Randle averages 17/7 off the bench), fresh off of banishing an extremely shallow Clippers team that nonetheless featured Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard. That's when disaster strikes LeBron once again in the form of an achilles injury to James Harden, 8-10 months. Doncic averages 37/11/12 on a team that is both very deep and miraculously healthy. Houston goes down in five.

The Finals showcase MVP Embiid (38/16/3 in the ECF) against Doncic (37/11/12 in the WCF). [By the way, COVID never happens in this scenario. There goes that butterfly effect again!] CP never returns, and the series goes to seven games. If Philly wins, even LeBron's most ardent admirers and supporters will have to admit this is the ultimate in eternal shame: a team lost him (and Al Horford) and replaced him with... Josh Richardson... and then won the championship? The ultimate in eternal shame. But the Mavericks prevail, allowing LeBron stans everywhere to preserve a fantasy world in which he could have, would have, and should have done many things that he never actually did. The Mavericks sign Porzingis and Randle long-term, virtually ensuring that Doncic inevitably leaves as soon as he possibly can.

Final count from 2014-15 through 2020:

.Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook = two championships.
.Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, James Harden, Steph, Klay, Dray, and Doncic = one championship.
.LeBron = no championships.

Alright, alright. I'll go ahead and give a full disclaimer on this series.

I do my own 2K ratings, and they are typically - not always - lower for almost all players than the originals. What I did for this series was plug my LeBrons into the original rosters, with just a few others of my ratings for each season. Thus, the vast majority of players in each season were rated higher than I would actually rate them, and therefore LeBron did not have the full impact that he probably would've had in reality... as if that last part isn't apparent by the end results.

This was just a fun joke, people! At least, I had fun, haha.

I'm in the extremely long process of updating the rosters with my own ratings - again, as I used to have them pretty much complete before deleting them - so maybe some day I can do scenarios like this and get results that are a bit more believable.