Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread

[Gooner]

The only good thing that came out of the Harden trade was Caris medical issue was discovered and resolved. But I don't resent Sean for the trade. Harden was great until the Hamstring injury. He came out on one leg to try and help us win. But he was never the same this past season. It is going to be real interesting to see what he is offered this off season.

Stone, you're a good poster IMO, but counter to you, I think Sean made an *enormous* number of fundamental mistakes in the Harden trade.

Mistakes in terms of team-philosophy, mistakes in terms of not taking advantage of HOU being in a desperate spot, mistakes in terms of vast overpayment, mistakes in terms of locking in to one particular desired-scenario whereas before the situation was totally fluid.

I'm gonna stop the ongoing list right there, and point out something that most Nets fans STILL don't seem to understand properly. It's this-- jettisoning team philosophy to build around KI & KD was a REASONABLE RISK, directly because they gracefully signed as FA's, which amounted to us losing a super-useful player like DLo in order to be imposed by DeJordan's annoying contract, but it did carry some consequences IMO, even if it only came to 'pleasing them' and doubling down to chase a ring.

Me, I thought it stank to high heaven from day one, but you know what *USED* to be great? We kept not just our kids, and our picks, but our flexibility. Meaning-- we retained a vast amount of our options in terms of pivoting as needed, trading off, moving this way or that from either or both KI & KD, developing moreso through Fro, whatever..

Sean Marks (and yes, in direct pursuit of a title) absolutely tanked almost all of those options & flexibilities via the disastrous Harden trade.

Which leaves us living in a borderline hostage-situation, in which we've committed absolutely *everything* to an aging superstar who's inevitably going to get injured again under our complete idiot of a HC, and his sidekick, an often-injured multi-millionaire star who clearly doesn't give a **** about even his 'dream scenario' (ie, playing with his BFF in his hometown).

Harden trade was pushed by KD, I have no doubt about it. Marks is a puppett GM now.

[MrDollarBills]

Billy King should be proud of the team that he built in Boston.

Meanwhile, can anyone really see us winning with KD/Kyrie/Ben and Nash? Boston has size, length, and bigs that can shoot threes. We have none of that. Kyrie is a space cadet who doesn't care. Ben has mental health issues and pretty much makes Claxton unplayable with him. Nash is absolutely terrible at Xs and Os. How is this going to work?

Marks needs to go.

[Stone]

The only good thing that came out of the Harden trade was Caris medical issue was discovered and resolved. But I don't resent Sean for the trade. Harden was great until the Hamstring injury. He came out on one leg to try and help us win. But he was never the same this past season. It is going to be real interesting to see what he is offered this off season.

Stone, you're a good poster IMO, but counter to you, I think Sean made an *enormous* number of fundamental mistakes in the Harden trade.

Mistakes in terms of team-philosophy, mistakes in terms of not taking advantage of HOU being in a desperate spot, mistakes in terms of vast overpayment, mistakes in terms of locking in to one particular desired-scenario whereas before the situation was totally fluid.

I'm gonna stop the ongoing list right there, and point out something that most Nets fans STILL don't seem to understand properly. It's this-- jettisoning team philosophy to build around KI & KD was a REASONABLE RISK, directly because they gracefully signed as FA's, which amounted to us losing a super-useful player like DLo in order to be imposed by DeJordan's annoying contract, but it did carry some consequences IMO, even if it only came to 'pleasing them' and doubling down to chase a ring.

Me, I thought it stank to high heaven from day one, but you know what *USED* to be great? We kept not just our kids, and our picks, but our flexibility. Meaning-- we retained a vast amount of our options in terms of pivoting as needed, trading off, moving this way or that from either or both KI & KD, developing moreso through Fro, whatever..

Sean Marks (and yes, in direct pursuit of a title) absolutely tanked almost all of those options & flexibilities via the disastrous Harden trade.

Which leaves us living in a borderline hostage-situation, in which we've committed absolutely *everything* to an aging superstar who's inevitably going to get injured again under our complete idiot of a HC, and his sidekick, an often-injured multi-millionaire star who clearly doesn't give a **** about even his 'dream scenario' (ie, playing with his BFF in his hometown).

Thanks gigantes, I always want to hear our fellow Nets board members thoughts. We are all students of the game after all.

In hindsight I agree the Harden signing was a huge mistake. But at the time I cannot deny I was all for it. Harden was a recent MVP and top 10 player.

We also have to keep in mind that Seans Marks also had Joe Tsai prodding him to make the move because he was uncertain about the reliability of Kyrie. Then came the hamstring injury and Harden coming into the season no where near 100%.

This past season was hijacked by James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I am open and willing to give Sean Marks another chance. He turned the Nets around with nothing once and he deserves a chance to try again.

[NyCeEvO]

Meanwhile...

Steph Curry won 9 of his last 10 NBA Finals games with Kevin Durant on his team. Curry has lost 8 of his last 9 NBA Finals games without KD, including 6 straight losses at home.

For as much as people go on about how Warriors didn't need KD, they sure have struggled in the Finals without him 2015 chip against LeBron and his bench aside

What does the Warriors losing again in the Finals do for KD's rep as a bus driver?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/v3qick/steph_curry_won_9_of_his_last_10_nba_finals_games/

Err... is it too late to retract everything I bitched & moaned about KD, above?

No one has argued that the Warriors are *better* without KD than with him. That’s asinine. The argument put forth by that person is a straw man. It’s obviously better to have two offensive superstars playing than just one. Having KD on the Warriors made hem virtually unbeatable; without him, they’re more vulnerable.

What people have argued is that the Warriors didn’t need a player of KD’s caliber in order to still win a title. Harrison Barnes was the ire of Warriors fans in the 2016 Finals because of 12.2 PER/.519 TS% performance, despite playing alongside Steph and Klay who had ridiculous gravity.

We will never know if the Warriors could’ve won with a better than Harrison Barnes but worse than KD level replacement. But as far as the franchise is concerned, if you can get KD and greatly reduce the likelihood you won’t win, you take the opportunity every time no matter what others say.

[MGrand15]

The NBA narratives are so tired and childish. Everything is about stars and drama. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Anyway, what stands out to me about both the Celtics and Warriors is the versatility. Boston can play big, they can play small, they can play 5 out, they can switch everything, they can trap + double. They can play iso ball if you have a weak defender on the floor. If you don't, they'll run their offense and move the ball. They'll beat you up on the glass and in the post if you play small. They'll run you off the floor if you're too big. Golden State is a tiny bit more limited but they're deeper with legit 10-12 guys you can trust in the playoffs.

Tatum and Steph are the sexy names to talk about but Grant Williams, Al Horford, Draymond, GP2, Looney are the guys that allow these teams to succeed. They let them play big and small at the same time. They move the ball. They don't give up anything easy. It's a game changer to have guys like this on the roster.

[MrDollarBills]

The only good thing that came out of the Harden trade was Caris medical issue was discovered and resolved. But I don't resent Sean for the trade. Harden was great until the Hamstring injury. He came out on one leg to try and help us win. But he was never the same this past season. It is going to be real interesting to see what he is offered this off season.

Stone, you're a good poster IMO, but counter to you, I think Sean made an *enormous* number of fundamental mistakes in the Harden trade.

Mistakes in terms of team-philosophy, mistakes in terms of not taking advantage of HOU being in a desperate spot, mistakes in terms of vast overpayment, mistakes in terms of locking in to one particular desired-scenario whereas before the situation was totally fluid.

I'm gonna stop the ongoing list right there, and point out something that most Nets fans STILL don't seem to understand properly. It's this-- jettisoning team philosophy to build around KI & KD was a REASONABLE RISK, directly because they gracefully signed as FA's, which amounted to us losing a super-useful player like DLo in order to be imposed by DeJordan's annoying contract, but it did carry some consequences IMO, even if it only came to 'pleasing them' and doubling down to chase a ring.

Me, I thought it stank to high heaven from day one, but you know what *USED* to be great? We kept not just our kids, and our picks, but our flexibility. Meaning-- we retained a vast amount of our options in terms of pivoting as needed, trading off, moving this way or that from either or both KI & KD, developing moreso through Fro, whatever..

Sean Marks (and yes, in direct pursuit of a title) absolutely tanked almost all of those options & flexibilities via the disastrous Harden trade.

Which leaves us living in a borderline hostage-situation, in which we've committed absolutely *everything* to an aging superstar who's inevitably going to get injured again under our complete idiot of a HC, and his sidekick, an often-injured multi-millionaire star who clearly doesn't give a **** about even his 'dream scenario' (ie, playing with his BFF in his hometown).

Thanks gigantes, I always want to hear our fellow Nets board members thoughts. We are all students of the game after all.

In hindsight I agree the Harden signing was a huge mistake. But at the time I cannot deny I was all for it. Harden was a recent MVP and top 10 player.

We also have to keep in mind that Seans Marks also had Joe Tsai prodding him to make the move because he was uncertain about the reliability of Kyrie. Then came the hamstring injury and Harden coming into the season no where near 100%.

This past season was hijacked by James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I am open and willing to give Sean Marks another chance. He turned the Nets around with nothing once and he deserves a chance to try again.

Kyrie is 100% to blame for why the team tripped over themselves to trade for that fat washed up quitter. 100%. If Kyrie wasn't unreliable that trade would have never happened.

[MrDollarBills]

The NBA narratives are so tired and childish. Everything is about stars and drama. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Anyway, what stands out to me about both the Celtics and Warriors is the versatility. Boston can play big, they can play small, they can play 5 out, they can switch everything, they can trap + double. They can play iso ball if you have a weak defender on the floor. If you don't, they'll run their offense and move the ball. They'll beat you up on the glass and in the post if you play small. They'll run you off the floor if you're too big. Golden State is a tiny bit more limited but they're deeper with legit 10-12 guys you can trust in the playoffs.

Tatum and Steph are the sexy names to talk about but Grant Williams, Al Horford, Draymond, GP2, Looney are the guys that allow these teams to succeed. They let them play big and small at the same time. They move the ball. They don't give up anything easy. It's a game changer to have guys like this on the roster.

This is why i asked how can we even compete against either team? Nevermind the coaching aspect, we don't have those kinds of X factor players. Grant Williams doesn't sh*t his pants like Joe Harris does when things get dicey. Ben can't be our Draymond if he cant be relied on to hit FTs or take an open shot. Christ...

[Hello Brooklyn]

Stone, you're a good poster IMO, but counter to you, I think Sean made an *enormous* number of fundamental mistakes in the Harden trade.

Mistakes in terms of team-philosophy, mistakes in terms of not taking advantage of HOU being in a desperate spot, mistakes in terms of vast overpayment, mistakes in terms of locking in to one particular desired-scenario whereas before the situation was totally fluid.

I'm gonna stop the ongoing list right there, and point out something that most Nets fans STILL don't seem to understand properly. It's this-- jettisoning team philosophy to build around KI & KD was a REASONABLE RISK, directly because they gracefully signed as FA's, which amounted to us losing a super-useful player like DLo in order to be imposed by DeJordan's annoying contract, but it did carry some consequences IMO, even if it only came to 'pleasing them' and doubling down to chase a ring.

Me, I thought it stank to high heaven from day one, but you know what *USED* to be great? We kept not just our kids, and our picks, but our flexibility. Meaning-- we retained a vast amount of our options in terms of pivoting as needed, trading off, moving this way or that from either or both KI & KD, developing moreso through Fro, whatever..

Sean Marks (and yes, in direct pursuit of a title) absolutely tanked almost all of those options & flexibilities via the disastrous Harden trade.

Which leaves us living in a borderline hostage-situation, in which we've committed absolutely *everything* to an aging superstar who's inevitably going to get injured again under our complete idiot of a HC, and his sidekick, an often-injured multi-millionaire star who clearly doesn't give a **** about even his 'dream scenario' (ie, playing with his BFF in his hometown).

Thanks gigantes, I always want to hear our fellow Nets board members thoughts. We are all students of the game after all.

In hindsight I agree the Harden signing was a huge mistake. But at the time I cannot deny I was all for it. Harden was a recent MVP and top 10 player.

We also have to keep in mind that Seans Marks also had Joe Tsai prodding him to make the move because he was uncertain about the reliability of Kyrie. Then came the hamstring injury and Harden coming into the season no where near 100%.

This past season was hijacked by James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I am open and willing to give Sean Marks another chance. He turned the Nets around with nothing once and he deserves a chance to try again.

Kyrie is 100% to blame for why the team tripped over themselves to trade for that fat washed up quitter. 100%. If Kyrie wasn't unreliable that trade would have never happened.

I don't really buy this. KD was behind the Harden trade and had been recruiting him all summer.

I don't see how anyone could argue it was a bad trade anyway. His decline is unprecedented. Even worse than Deron Williams.

Still Kyrie and Harden are 100% to blame for the teams disaster season last year. Both players **** us.

[MGrand15]

The NBA narratives are so tired and childish. Everything is about stars and drama. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Anyway, what stands out to me about both the Celtics and Warriors is the versatility. Boston can play big, they can play small, they can play 5 out, they can switch everything, they can trap + double. They can play iso ball if you have a weak defender on the floor. If you don't, they'll run their offense and move the ball. They'll beat you up on the glass and in the post if you play small. They'll run you off the floor if you're too big. Golden State is a tiny bit more limited but they're deeper with legit 10-12 guys you can trust in the playoffs.

Tatum and Steph are the sexy names to talk about but Grant Williams, Al Horford, Draymond, GP2, Looney are the guys that allow these teams to succeed. They let them play big and small at the same time. They move the ball. They don't give up anything easy. It's a game changer to have guys like this on the roster.

This is why i asked how can we even compete against either team? Nevermind the coaching aspect, we don't have those kinds of X factor players. Grant Williams doesn't sh*t his pants like Joe Harris does when things get dicey. Ben can't be our Draymond if he cant be relied on to hit FTs or take an open shot. Christ...

I'm gonna let you be depressed about the team all summer but I need you back to talking trash and irrationally believing in the team after Labor Day

[MrDollarBills]

The NBA narratives are so tired and childish. Everything is about stars and drama. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Anyway, what stands out to me about both the Celtics and Warriors is the versatility. Boston can play big, they can play small, they can play 5 out, they can switch everything, they can trap + double. They can play iso ball if you have a weak defender on the floor. If you don't, they'll run their offense and move the ball. They'll beat you up on the glass and in the post if you play small. They'll run you off the floor if you're too big. Golden State is a tiny bit more limited but they're deeper with legit 10-12 guys you can trust in the playoffs.

Tatum and Steph are the sexy names to talk about but Grant Williams, Al Horford, Draymond, GP2, Looney are the guys that allow these teams to succeed. They let them play big and small at the same time. They move the ball. They don't give up anything easy. It's a game changer to have guys like this on the roster.

This is why i asked how can we even compete against either team? Nevermind the coaching aspect, we don't have those kinds of X factor players. Grant Williams doesn't sh*t his pants like Joe Harris does when things get dicey. Ben can't be our Draymond if he cant be relied on to hit FTs or take an open shot. Christ...

I'm gonna let you be depressed about the team all summer but I need you back to talking trash and irrationally believing in the team after Labor Day

They finally broke me, dude.

[gigantes]

Meanwhile...

Steph Curry won 9 of his last 10 NBA Finals games with Kevin Durant on his team. Curry has lost 8 of his last 9 NBA Finals games without KD, including 6 straight losses at home.

For as much as people go on about how Warriors didn't need KD, they sure have struggled in the Finals without him 2015 chip against LeBron and his bench aside

What does the Warriors losing again in the Finals do for KD's rep as a bus driver?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/v3qick/steph_curry_won_9_of_his_last_10_nba_finals_games/

Err... is it too late to retract everything I bitched & moaned about KD, above?

No one has argued that the Warriors are *better* without KD than with him. That’s asinine. The argument put forth by that person is a straw man. It’s obviously better to have two offensive superstars playing than just one. Having KD on the Warriors made hem virtually unbeatable; without him, they’re more vulnerable.

What people have argued is that the Warriors didn’t need a player of KD’s caliber in order to still win a title. Harrison Barnes was the ire of Warriors fans in the 2016 Finals because of 12.2 PER/.519 TS% performance, despite playing alongside Steph and Klay who had ridiculous gravity.

We will never know if the Warriors could’ve won with a better than Harrison Barnes but worse than KD level replacement. But as far as the franchise is concerned, if you can get KD and greatly reduce the likelihood you won’t win, you take the opportunity every time no matter what others say.

Oh for sure, everything you said is 100% right AFAIK.

More like, it makes me downright ill bitching about my team's best player (and his sidekick) these days, and I just wanted to give KD a lil fannish love right there, hah.

[gigantes]

Stone, you're a good poster IMO, but counter to you, I think Sean made an *enormous* number of fundamental mistakes in the Harden trade.

Mistakes in terms of team-philosophy, mistakes in terms of not taking advantage of HOU being in a desperate spot, mistakes in terms of vast overpayment, mistakes in terms of locking in to one particular desired-scenario whereas before the situation was totally fluid.

I'm gonna stop the ongoing list right there, and point out something that most Nets fans STILL don't seem to understand properly. It's this-- jettisoning team philosophy to build around KI & KD was a REASONABLE RISK, directly because they gracefully signed as FA's, which amounted to us losing a super-useful player like DLo in order to be imposed by DeJordan's annoying contract, but it did carry some consequences IMO, even if it only came to 'pleasing them' and doubling down to chase a ring.

Me, I thought it stank to high heaven from day one, but you know what *USED* to be great? We kept not just our kids, and our picks, but our flexibility. Meaning-- we retained a vast amount of our options in terms of pivoting as needed, trading off, moving this way or that from either or both KI & KD, developing moreso through Fro, whatever..

Sean Marks (and yes, in direct pursuit of a title) absolutely tanked almost all of those options & flexibilities via the disastrous Harden trade.

Which leaves us living in a borderline hostage-situation, in which we've committed absolutely *everything* to an aging superstar who's inevitably going to get injured again under our complete idiot of a HC, and his sidekick, an often-injured multi-millionaire star who clearly doesn't give a **** about even his 'dream scenario' (ie, playing with his BFF in his hometown).

Thanks gigantes, I always want to hear our fellow Nets board members thoughts. We are all students of the game after all.

In hindsight I agree the Harden signing was a huge mistake. But at the time I cannot deny I was all for it. Harden was a recent MVP and top 10 player.

We also have to keep in mind that Seans Marks also had Joe Tsai prodding him to make the move because he was uncertain about the reliability of Kyrie. Then came the hamstring injury and Harden coming into the season no where near 100%.

This past season was hijacked by James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I am open and willing to give Sean Marks another chance. He turned the Nets around with nothing once and he deserves a chance to try again.

Kyrie is 100% to blame for why the team tripped over themselves to trade for that fat washed up quitter. 100%. If Kyrie wasn't unreliable that trade would have never happened.

I still don't get why people keep mentioning Joe Tsai as a direct influence in signings, moves, etc.

Tsai came in to this situation hugely out of his depth, and to me (outside of being predictably vulnerable to the craven CCP) has been a perfect gentleman and patient enabler of Marks and the whole team.

[NyCeEvO]

Thanks gigantes, I always want to hear our fellow Nets board members thoughts. We are all students of the game after all.

In hindsight I agree the Harden signing was a huge mistake. But at the time I cannot deny I was all for it. Harden was a recent MVP and top 10 player.

We also have to keep in mind that Seans Marks also had Joe Tsai prodding him to make the move because he was uncertain about the reliability of Kyrie. Then came the hamstring injury and Harden coming into the season no where near 100%.

This past season was hijacked by James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I am open and willing to give Sean Marks another chance. He turned the Nets around with nothing once and he deserves a chance to try again.

Kyrie is 100% to blame for why the team tripped over themselves to trade for that fat washed up quitter. 100%. If Kyrie wasn't unreliable that trade would have never happened.

I still don't get why people keep mentioning Joe Tsai as a direct influence in signings, moves, etc.

Tsai came in to this situation hugely out of his depth, and to me (outside of being predictably vulnerable to the craven CCP) has been a perfect gentleman and patient enabler of Marks and the whole team.

I haven’t been an avid read reader of anything Nets related like I used to be, but I too don’t understand why Thai gets a bad wrap.

I need to read a report about him undermining Kenny and Marks, and getting the former fired.

The one thing that people seem to forget is that billionaires (usually) care a lot about losing money. I don’t Tsai is smiling and happy about what happened last season. While he might like Nash as a person, I don’t think he’s going to keep him around simply because he likes him as a person and/or they’ve invested in a team together.

If Nash underachieved next year and the Nets lose more money again because fans don’t want to turn up to watch multi-millionaire players half-assing playing a child’s game during the regular season, I’d bet that Joe would let Nash go. There’s no way he became a billionaire and never had to let people go whom he actually liked.

[MrDollarBills]

Quinn Snyder stepped down as Utah's head coach.

[TheNetsFan]

Quinn Snyder stepped down as Utah's head coach.

He'll likely wind up in San Antonio taking over for Popovic eventually.

[gigantes]

Kyrie is 100% to blame for why the team tripped over themselves to trade for that fat washed up quitter. 100%. If Kyrie wasn't unreliable that trade would have never happened.

I still don't get why people keep mentioning Joe Tsai as a direct influence in signings, moves, etc.

Tsai came in to this situation hugely out of his depth, and to me (outside of being predictably vulnerable to the craven CCP) has been a perfect gentleman and patient enabler of Marks and the whole team.

The one thing that people seem to forget is that billionaires (usually) care a lot about losing money. I don’t Tsai is smiling and happy about what happened last season. While he might like Nash as a person, I don’t think he’s going to keep him around simply because he likes him as a person and/or they’ve invested in a team together.

If Nash underachieved next year and the Nets lose more money again because fans don’t want to turn up to watch multi-millionaire players half-assing playing a child’s game during the regular season, I’d bet that Joe would let Nash go. There’s no way he became a billionaire and never had to let people go whom he actually liked.

Not necessarily. And you're not intrinsically *wrong* matey, but you're also not intrinsically *right* about billionaire things.

Fact: they're heavily-insulated against reality, and they can and do whatever they want, based on whatever partial-glimpse of reality they might be getting at any one time.

This is FACT, and you can source-check by searching testimonials from many, many peoples who've worked for billionaires.

My point is this---> Joe Tsai is in the Joe Tsai business. Meaning, he might turn on a dime and conclude that he's tired of being an NBA owner, or stay, firing almost everyone, or persuade himself that Marks has done everything right and that our failures are simply due to 'bad luck,' or any whimsical combination of the above.

This is how billionaires do, NyCeEvO.
Because they're heavily-insulated, see?
Because they have the outrageous luxury of picking & choosing the facts & reality they prefer to surround themselves with.

Notice any parallel examples across global issues & politics?
Oof, I hope so.

[GTR11]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=87NNN0vuUK27gQnnt0jW4g

[GTR11]

Some sucker team will pay OPJ again. He should stay with GSW imo. Will hate to see him get bashed over for no reason again.

[MrDollarBills]

Some sucker team will pay OPJ again. He should stay with GSW imo. Will hate to see him get bashed over for no reason again.

we might be that sucker team. we need wings players badly because of how awful Marks has mismanaged this roster

[MrDollarBills]

I will be sickened when Boston wins the NBA championship. Brad Stevens and Ime Udoke are superior to Marks and Nash in every facet. Tatum and Brown make KD and Kyrie look like crap. There, I've said it. KD isn't getting any younger and embarrassed himself in the first round. Kyrie didn't give two hoots whether we won or lost. Boston's core is way better than ours. I think we need to be honest.

Joe Tsai is a fool for paying out a half a billion dollars for the slop that was put forth this season. Not including the money he wastes paying Steve Nash.