JJ Redick speaks the Truth - 80/90s NBA vs Today

[prophet_of_rage]

The funny thing about JJ Reddick is how he only became a rotation player after the league changed the dribbling and carry rules while starting to ignore moving screens by Howard. So admitting the rules today helps perimeter players would be admitting without those he couldn't have played in the league without them.

what rule change regarding carrying and illegal screens are you referring to? the ones that governed mike palming the ball all the way up the court? or the ones that allen iverson used on his crossover? illegal screens have been about distance between the screener and defender, speed of the players moving, and when they set. Theyve been missing this call for 50 years. its just that teams are setting over 100 screens per game in this game so you are going to see more bad screens than 10 years ago.

Stop using facts.

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[prophet_of_rage]

mad dog russo totally gave it to draymond green. i'm not sure about not making the roster, but if he was on that team he would certainly find himself waving a towel at the end of the bench mostly.

Yeah, one of the all-time great defenders wouldn't be able to get minutes. Okay buddy

yea buddy, none of those 80’s teams would want his 2 point no skill offensive scrub arse anywhere near the court.

You think Draymond is worse than Anthony Bonner the Knicks backup 3/4 that went to the 94 Finals? You think he is worse than World Champion Dickey Simpkins?

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[boomershadow]

JJ isn't wrong about the level of training and skill needed to be in the league these days, but I think he under appreciates just how TOUGH you had to be back then. Charles Oakley and Dale Davis didn't spend their free time perfecting their three point shot. They were pumping iron.

It's all apples and oranges really.

[prophet_of_rage]

Btw, guys were playing 40+mpg for 82 games every year back then because they were able to just stand around for 80-90% of their playing time.

Dudes nowadays have to cover WAAAY more ground offensively/defensively & guard the entire floor.

The fact that this isn’t obvious to many people is mind boggling.

And yet they didn't average 42 plus minutes. They average over 30. Michael Jordan averaged 38.

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[Showtime 80]

I'll just leave this here and slowwwly step away:

Watch on YouTube

Pathetic!!!

Soft era, soft society and overall soft world

Can you imagine any of these modern rule enhanced AAU poisoned fundamentally deficient overly sensitive divas playing in the REAL Boston Garden, Spectrum in Philly, Chicago Stadium, Pontiac Silverdome, Memorial Coliseum, Mecca etc... Me neither! They would tell the ref to remove everybody in the arena

[celtics543]

I kind of think every era was basically the same. Russell played against Chamberlain who played against Kareem who played against Hakeem who played against Shaq who played against Howard who played against Embiid. None of those guys looked out of place at any point during their competitive years so I'd argue that the NBA hasn't evolved a lot.

Training is better, nutrition is better, travel is easier, equipment is better, healthcare is better. All of those are advantages that guys today have but the human body doesn't evolve in such a short time span. Athletes are able to put in better performances because they've gotten smarter but the human body is the same as it was when Mikan was playing.

The league is deeper today because the game is more popular worldwide.

[LAL1947]

The leprechaun got trolled into his feelings, hehe.

He does have a good point though. The game has definitely changed for the better with brawls and fights being cut out. Who can forget the kind of stuff that used to go down? Like when Julius Erwing started a fight and a brawl just because he was losing to the better player in Larry Bird. Or when Kermit Washington sucker-punched Rudy Tomjanovich. Both of those guys still haven't owned up to what they did, making excuses to this day, lol. So glad we don't have that kind of stuff happening anymore.

The quality of depth on teams has gone up a lot too. Just 10 years ago, there are teams who reached the finals that would have killed to have the kind of quality depth even 8th seeds have these days.

Most importantly, the game now fully allows small guys to completely take big guys out of the game. Which is great, so we don't have to watch 10 lanky stilt-like apparitions running around the court.

The referees need to consistently call travels, charges and carries though. The current gather rule is an abomination. Flops need to be cut out of the game as well. These things are more damaging than players complaining to the referees.

[eagereyez]

Wilt claimed his era was the best. Magic/Bird said the same about theirs. And MJ had something to say about the 90s as well. Now even Rasheed Wallace is pumping up the 00s. Old men yelling at clouds is a time-honored NBA tradition.

[bakafool]

JJ has played his entire career under rules that were made to specifically make it easier to score. So not sure how he would know.

I think the NBA should bring back hand checking and remove the defensive 3 second rule. Should also crack down on load management.

Dray would do well in the 80s and 90s though. He's a dirty player so he'd be especially effective.

[LAL1947]

I think the NBA should bring back hand checking

Why on earth would you want that back, Baka?

[CIN-C-STAR]

Not proving todays era is better than 80/90s.
Trying to highlight media's nostalgic narrative that no players after 80/90s will ever be better than that era.
And this ONLY happens to basketball, no other sport.

In terms of Genetics and evolution.
Here's an example.
Karl Malone vs LeBron James.
Just something to think about.

Is Lebron a better athlete than David Robinson?
Something to think about

1000%
Likely just as strong, but faster, quicker, jumps higher, name it.

Horrible take man, should of gone for the jugular and say MJ, if you wanted to win the argument easily.
At least I gave you comparable size and physique.

Naw it's not a horrible take.
D Rob was a gymnast in addition to being a HoF bball player. Also a gifted pianist.
You're being way too dismissive of his combination of coordination, size and strength to take seriously. Basically your argument is Lebron is better at everything because you're a huge Lebron fan.
But sure you could pick MJ, or Mugsey Bogues, or go way back to the gold standard of Wilt.
There are great athletes littered throughout the history of the game, Lebron being one of them.
It's not a new phenomena. That's the point.

[prophet_of_rage]

JJ has played his entire career under rules that were made to specifically make it easier to score. So not sure how he would know.

I think the NBA should bring back hand checking and remove the defensive 3 second rule. Should also crack down on load management.

Dray would do well in the 80s and 90s though. He's a dirty player so he'd be especially effective.

You really want the return if the illegal defence and illegal offence rules?

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[CharityStripe34]

Here's an interesting thought. Appreciate each respective era for what it was.

[The Rebel]

The funny thing about JJ Reddick is how he only became a rotation player after the league changed the dribbling and carry rules while starting to ignore moving screens by Howard. So admitting the rules today helps perimeter players would be admitting without those he couldn't have played in the league without them.

what rule change regarding carrying and illegal screens are you referring to? the ones that governed mike palming the ball all the way up the court? or the ones that allen iverson used on his crossover? illegal screens have been about distance between the screener and defender, speed of the players moving, and when they set. Theyve been missing this call for 50 years. its just that teams are setting over 100 screens per game in this game so you are going to see more bad screens than 10 years ago.

Oh it happened occasionally for 50 years so that means it happening means nothing. See how stupid that sounds?
Sure some calls were missed but acting like it is an every play thing like it is today only shows that you have no real argument.

[jerok]

Well thats because the way the NBA was played back than was more versatile, there for more entertaining to them (myself included) compared to how everything is revolved around 3's now days, but anyway you should also take into account that it doesn't take a scientist to see that the old style from previous decades still works. So it can really go either way. Just look at how effective a good number of the talent that were drafted in the late 90s still were in the later half of their careers going up against the modern talent at that time. Tim Duncan could still ball.

Kevin Garnett, Michael Jordan when he came back showed he could still do it at that time. The list goes on and on. So it's not out ofi the question that they and their actual team would be able to defeat a modern team at their best if they could jump through time to 2022 or some other point down the line that these conversations happen yet again.

and yes it does happen in other sports. Let's not forget George Foreman came back and won a championship at 45 years old against someone half his age. Sports evolve over time, but greatness remains the same.

Except when we compare Greatness of today vs 80/90s right? All of a sudden modern greats aren't so great anymore.

I think you missed the entire point of the topic.

I didn't miss the point of anything. I'm pointing out that past generations from any era can play well in any modern age because we've already seen many veterans continue to play well past their prime. So if they could do that then, they'd be able to be even more effective right there in a modern era if they were in their primes.

80s still played well in the 2000s, 90s guys still played well in the 2010s.

Still missing the point kind sir.

[jerok]

Not proving todays era is better than 80/90s.
Trying to highlight media's nostalgic narrative that no players after 80/90s will ever be better than that era.
And this ONLY happens to basketball, no other sport.

In terms of Genetics and evolution.
Here's an example.
Karl Malone vs LeBron James.
Just something to think about.

Is Lebron a better athlete than David Robinson?
Something to think about

There is literally 1 LeBron, it's not evidence that the human race is evolving. Just like there not being anything to parallel Shaq proves nothing about evolution.

Besides 2003 LeBron was way more athletic than this current version of LeBron and wasn't nearly the player. And the two best offensive players in the league are fat, slow, and white.

So there is this one of a kind player name LeBron right?
But compared to 80 and 90s players he is just average, Therefore, he won't be successful in that era, correct?

And these Slow, Fat and White dudes, would probably be waterboys in the 80s and 90s?

[Dan Z]

The leprechaun got trolled into his feelings, hehe.

He does have a point though. The game has definitely changed for the better with brawls and fights being cut out. Who can forget the kind of stuff that used to go down? Like when Julius Erwing started a fight and a brawl just because he was losing to the better player in Larry Bird. Or the disgraceful deed that Kermit Washington pulled on Rudy Tomjanovich. Both of those guys are grade A C-words, and still haven't owned up to what they did, making excuses to this day, lol. So glad we don't have that kind of stuff happening anymore.

The quality of depth on teams has gone up a lot too. Just 10 years ago, there are teams who reached the finals that would have killed to have the kind of quality depth even 8th seeds have these days.

Most importantly, the game now fully allows small guys to completely take big guys out of the game. Which is great, so we don't have to watch 10 lanky stilt-like apparitions running around the court.

The referees need to consistently call travels, charges and carries though. The current gather rule is an abomination. Flops need to be cut out of the game as well. These things are more damaging than players complaining to the referees.

Players will always bend the rules to their advantage. One problem is that some players play for fouls. That makes the sport less enjoyable to watch.

I agree with you about refs. They can and should do better.

[jerok]

You guys really do not know **** about sport history do you?

Look up Tree Rollins, Kareem, and others they played as long as anybody in the league today and more minutes as well.

Gordie Howe was 52 when he retired.

Nolan Ryan played 27 years.


Literally the only guys playing longer today are NFL quarterbacks, because you can no longer hit them.

Cmon man, Rafael nadal just won the french open. He is 36, with a bad foot.
Messi and Ronaldo are still tops in football, and they are past the normal prime of football players.

Back to basketball.
What about LeBron? Average 30 as a 37 year old.
PJ Tucker guarding Tatum and Brown. Al Horford, Chris Paul, these guys are beyond 35.

We get it gramps, you love your nostalgia, want us to get off your lawn?

Ah personal attacks since you have no other argument, things never change. Jordan was considerably better at 36 then Lebron was. Hell Lebron was losing to Duncan when Duncan was 37. So once again, reality is that some guys have played into their late 30s for decades.

No attacks here sir, just making sure I don't mess up your lawn.
Argument still stands, ONLY in the NBA, no other sport where 80s/90s players will always be better than any other generations as per Media/boomers. I haven't seen you debunk that.

Listed a few great older players in different sports to prove your other point that only quarterbacks play well in late 30s.

Jordan was retired at 36, so I guess he was consistently better than Lebron at golfing?

[jerok]

Is Lebron a better athlete than David Robinson?
Something to think about

1000%
Likely just as strong, but faster, quicker, jumps higher, name it.

Horrible take man, should of gone for the jugular and say MJ, if you wanted to win the argument easily.
At least I gave you comparable size and physique.

Naw it's not a horrible take.
D Rob was a gymnast in addition to being a HoF bball player. Also a gifted pianist.
You're being way too dismissive of his combination of coordination, size and strength to take seriously. Basically your argument is Lebron is better at everything because you're a huge Lebron fan.
But sure you could pick MJ, or Mugsey Bogues, or go way back to the gold standard of Wilt.
There are great athletes littered throughout the history of the game, Lebron being one of them.
It's not a new phenomena. That's the point.

DROB is amazing athlete, not dismissing anything.
But you are comparing him to LeBron, who might be top 5 most athletic NBA player of all time.
You asked me to compare both, and most people including myself will pick LeBron over DROB when it comes to athleticism.

I am a fan of LeBron, I appreciate greatness when I see it.
But my favorite player of all time is Manu, I'm a spurs guy my dude.
So there is no DROB slandering here.

[jerok]

Tyson Fury would get killed in the 80s or 90s. Jeez. Boxing is one sport where the skills needed to excel esp at the heavyweight division has regressed significantly.

Tyson Fury has great pure boxing skills with und underrated power man.
Very agile with fast hands at over 2m tall, 6"9.
I'm sure he'll do fine in the 80s or 90s.