2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[70sFan]

what do you guys think about draymond defense this series?

He was decent in game 1, amazing in game 2 and poor in game 3. Very inconsistent so far, he struggled with Celtics size tonight.

[GSP]

Absolutely dreading game 4. I can already feel a Klay 30 piece with 6 or more 3s or Steph bordering on or hitting 40. Just feels like one of em will explode and Klay usually has one of those explosions every series where he looks like the best player on the floor often on the road too................We opened as favorites for game 4 but i just bet on Warriors at +150. Gonna bet on props for Steph and Klays points and 3s too later............theyre coming

[70sFan]

what do you guys think about draymond defense this series?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2022-nba-finals-celtics-vs-warriors.html
his Drtg is pretty terrible and probably go down after g3.

Basketball-reference DRtg has nothing to do with actual DRtg. It tries to calculate per possession impact out of boxscore elements, which is horrible idea with defense.

[falcolombardi]

how awkward would it be if steph gets the fmvp for being by far the best player on the court but boston won the series?

i wonder, if tatum has a meh series and brown cools down but celtics still win

do voters give the first fmvp to a losing team since 69? i feel like voters woldnt want to give it to robert williams or marcus smart since they lack the sexy numbers

[jalengreen]

how awkward would it be if steph gets the fmvp for being by far the best player on the court but boston won the series?

i wonder, if tatum has a meh series and brown cools down but celtics still win

do voters give the first fmvp to a losing team since 69? i feel like voters woldnt want to give it to robert williams or marcus smart since they lack the sexy numbers

i guess it could technically happen if tatum/JB split the votes? but i honestly doubt it, really dont see a losing player winning FMVP. the bolded scenario could be one where that occurs.. but if steph maintains his performance + tatum/JB fall off i think it'll probably be a warriors win anyway tbh.

[jalengreen]

Absolutely dreading game 4. I can already feel a Klay 30 piece with 6 or more 3s or Steph bordering on or hitting 40. Just feels like one of em will explode and Klay usually has one of those explosions every series where he looks like the best player on the floor often on the road too................We opened as favorites for game 4 but i just bet on Warriors at +150. Gonna bet on props for Steph and Klays points and 3s too later............theyre coming

is this partially emotional hedging? (i would understand if so lol)

i mean this is part of why i think G3 must've been a really satisfying win - both steph and klay shot well and generally performed well offensively. it wasn't an explosion from klay per se, but it was far better than g1/g2.

OTOH it also feels unlikely that the celtics won't have a bad shooting night at some point. today was their worst shooting night at 37.1% from 3. they had 29.4%, 15.6%, and 20% 3pt shooting games against the heat, and 16.7%, 26.%, 24.1%, and 12.1% 3pt shooting games against the bucks. this series could be like the nets series where they never really cool down but i dunno, i'm expecting at least one cold night.

[Jaivl]

Which team historically does 2022 Celtics remind you the most on defense?

09 Rockets after the Lowry trade.

And even then, Boston is probably deeper, which is utterly ridiculous.

[TheGOATRises007]

The Warriors kind of have to go small, because their offense sputters if Looney & Green play.

But they get pounded by the Celtics' size then.

I honestly think Boston is the better team. The Warriors need Curry to go supernova in order to win their games. Whenever he sits, their offense looks awful. Whenever they go away from Curry PNR actions, their offense also dies down to me.

The Celtics have a more balanced attack IMO and less weaknesses defensively to exploit.

They are a brilliantly constructed roster. The future of the NBA.

A 5 out offense at times that can switch everything with a strong POA defender and excellent rim protection.

[WestGOAT]

Can't believe the amount of stupid passes Curry had to start off the 4th quarter, at least 3 dumb passes that lead to TO within 3 minutes. I thought he dialled back that sloppinesses of his.

[GSP]

Read on Twitter

Bruhhh WTF is this..... Not even an attempt at beating the boxout. He KNOWS Jayson has been nursing a right shoulder injury and goes for it..... At this point anyone still doubting Draymond is a dirty player is a delusional dumbass. Can't remember the last player who was allowed to get away with so much on both ends. Assault on defense, perennial League leader moving screens on offense....... Refs give him far more leeway to yell, complain and swear at ppl. Imagine how useless he'd be if he was reffed like a normal player

[Gooner]

Draymond Green is a complete nonfactor offensively. Kerr has to keep atleast 2 of Klay, Steph and Poole on the court at all times. Can't have GP coming in earlier than Poole.

[Doctor MJ]

how awkward would it be if steph gets the fmvp for being by far the best player on the court but boston won the series?

i wonder, if tatum has a meh series and brown cools down but celtics still win

do voters give the first fmvp to a losing team since 69? i feel like voters woldnt want to give it to robert williams or marcus smart since they lack the sexy numbers

So, I've been thinking about all this too.

First thing: I think it unlikely that voters pull an Iguodala again.

I think that the reason LeBron didn't win that Finals MVP was because they had become so reluctant to give it to the guy on the losing team...but after they did so, there was blowback because they chose Iggy over his team's own star (Curry). Meaning - had they just given it to Curry in 2015, I think that would have further cemented the norm of giving it to the best player on the best team, but now that folks see the way them giving that award is used against the star they pass over, along with the criticism they've faced, I think there will be a pull to avoid it.

Second thing: While I don't think the voters are itching to give the Finals MVP to the losing team...they probably are now itching to give it to Curry because him having no Finals MVPs is such a thing.

I don't expect them to do that unless the Warriors make the series close, but if they do make it close, and the consensus is that Curry was playing better than any Celtic - which at the moment - I think there's a strong possibility that Curry will get the nod.

A couple personal thoughts on this:

1. I would be happy if this happens because I think it's ridiculous that voters have gotten so reluctant to crown the guy they think was best. While I personally would have voted for Curry for Finals MVP in '14-15, it's clear to me based on how folks saw things at the time that it should have gone to LeBron and they tied themselves into pretzels rather than go there.

2. I would quite possibly be frustrated for Tatum because I think the NBA world is really underrating how critical he's been to producing this Celtic team. Because he's not an absolute top tier offensive player and because he has moment and games where he really doesn't look that great, it's easy to dismiss him as not truly being an MVP level player, but I don't think anyone should be dismissing his 2-way impact lightly.

On 2 - I'll probably feel that frustration even if I think Tatum isn't actually the Celtic MVP in this series, which frankly seems like a distinct possibility to me right now.

[Doctor MJ]

So, the thing I was thinking about while watching Game 3 was just how much more of a force the Celtics can become if Timelord really gets his playoff sea legs.

I found myself thinking a lot recently about old savvy champs vs young talented contenders. In the NBA, I think so often there's just no substitute for your players getting used to series basketball in the playoffs, learning to make the right plays game over game against a specific opponent (with the advice of smart coaches being extremely helpful, but not necessarily sufficient to get you there).

I'm hesitant to talk about the Celtics as a potential dynasty at this early stage for a variety of reasons, but just in terms of the possibility of future titles being determined by who can get the better of a Warrior-Celtic series, to me this feels like a situation where it's likely going to be a question of how long the Warriors can have tricks up their sleeve that flummox the young Celtics.

This isn't to say that great 3-point shooting can't swing victory regardless of tactical nitty gritty, but if 3-point shooting continues to be effectively a draw (both teams have exactly 49 makes so far, with the Celtics shooting a higher percentage), to me the Warriors will have to win this series by figuring out more ways to make the Celtics look green.

And of course, the fact that I say all this with the Celtics already having the lead in the series makes it all tougher. While the Warriors could easily be up 2-1 at this point, they aren't. I think we know that all it takes is the right strategic shift and a team that's down in a series can get an edge that lets take all the rest of the games in the series, but it's all the tougher for the Warriors now.

Will be very interested to see what Kerr and his staff do next, along with how the Warrior vets look in Game 4.

[dontcalltimeout]

So uhh this is where we are for the playoffs thus far

feel like the 3PT% on the 3 guard lineup's gotta be low due to noise

Seems likely, but I was looking more at Poole and Thomspon's inability to keep the team afloat in the non-Curry minutes

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

Bruhhh WTF is this..... Not even an attempt at beating the boxout. He KNOWS Jayson has been nursing a right shoulder injury and goes for it..... At this point anyone still doubting Draymond is a dirty player is a delusional dumbass. Can't remember the last player who was allowed to get away with so much on both ends. Assault on defense, perennial League leader moving screens on offense....... Refs give him far more leeway to yell, complain and swear at ppl. Imagine how useless he'd be if he was reffed like a normal player

Only thing I'll say is that the refs aren't doing this because they like Green. While he's foolish to actually say publicly that he's earning the whistle leeway he gets - a recipe for losing that benefit - he has indeed earned it the way savvy veterans have always earned it going back way before the start of the NBA.

[jalengreen]

Read on Twitter

I'm sure he'll play G4, but with the short turn around you gotta worry about how it might affect his play, particularly his movement. I don't think the Warriors have much room to sustain a Steph dropoff

[falcolombardi]

Read on Twitter

Bruhhh WTF is this..... Not even an attempt at beating the boxout. He KNOWS Jayson has been nursing a right shoulder injury and goes for it..... At this point anyone still doubting Draymond is a dirty player is a delusional dumbass. Can't remember the last player who was allowed to get away with so much on both ends. Assault on defense, perennial League leader moving screens on offense....... Refs give him far more leeway to yell, complain and swear at ppl. Imagine how useless he'd be if he was reffed like a normal player

Only thing I'll say is that the refs aren't doing this because they like Green. While he's foolish to actually say publicly that he's earning the whistle leeway he gets - a recipe for losing that benefit - he has indeed earned it the way savvy veterans have always earned it going back way before the start of the NBA.

i dont think refs fix anythingh, i think the hoops it would require to have the nba be fixed in secret these days would make 9/11 conspiracies look practical

but what i think does happen is that refs are humans have biases, and refs are affected by outside pressure (league, fans, coaches)

i truly believe that they dont give calls to someone like old lebron because they worry that a 37 year old lebron getting calls like giannis would -look- biased if people saw a 37 year old guy get so many calls as he probably should get based on contact, for example

and one of the ways that helps players like draymond is that once they get a defensive reputation the league and refs would- look- to a lot of people like they are enforcing no defense if even defensive stars get affected by the reffing, i truly believe that softening the criticisms over "refs dont allow defense" is how some select defensive players get away with murder

but once a different narrative, one of draymond being a dirty player who refs fear, starts taking hold (again) the refs have all the incentive to be harsh on draymond instead to make an "example"

draymond should know that his comments are putting refs in the spotlight when it comes to reffing him...
and not in a benefitial way for him

[parsnips33]

Man as great as Steph was, that stretch at the beginning of the 4th totally killed us.

This series is pretty much as simple as whoever can generate turnovers will win

[cpower]

what do you guys think about draymond defense this series?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2022-nba-finals-celtics-vs-warriors.html
his Drtg is pretty terrible and probably go down after g3.

Basketball-reference DRtg has nothing to do with actual DRtg. It tries to calculate per possession impact out of boxscore elements, which is horrible idea with defense.

Read on Twitter

[Peregrine01]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2022-nba-finals-celtics-vs-warriors.html
his Drtg is pretty terrible and probably go down after g3.

Basketball-reference DRtg has nothing to do with actual DRtg. It tries to calculate per possession impact out of boxscore elements, which is horrible idea with defense.

Read on Twitter

I suspect Draymond being so bad on offense has hurt the Dubs on defense. All those turnovers and passing up open shots for forced ones have let the Celts get out in transition, where they score a lot better than in the half-court. They've also used him too much as the 5, which have killed their rebounding. Looney needs to play more in place of him.