doclinkin wrote:Zonkerbl wrote:I'm moving the Overton window
Sadly sometimes simply shouting the same message again and again does not actually change people's opinions. You have to actually persuade people. Often that is by reframing the language in such a way that it sounds absurd to be against what you argue.
Like:
"It shouldn't be legal for cops to kill voters" and "Not even cops are Above the Law" or even "Weed out the Bad Apples" -- then use those statements discuss how we can change the nature of the job from Law Enforcement towards Public Safety. Who is pro "Bad Apple"? Who is pro corrupt cops. Who wants to represent Team Corruption.
We need better cops, smarter cops, better training, smarter policies. "Smarter cops" can include Crisis Response specialists that are trained in you know, not killing people. To get there you can ask if we are getting our money's worth in what we pay Police Departments for. Because nobody will go for getting rid of police departments, when what you are really saying is: stop giving a blank check to police departments. Make them do their actual job. Hold them accountable, where some part of job performance includes NOT KILLING PEOPLE instead of bringing them to justice. Killing citizens and taxpayers is not in the job description. Reduce the need in the budget for high dollar figures to cover payouts for wrongful death and police malfeasance. Publicize that number. Then pack the court if we can, and file lawsuits that attack "qualified immunity" over and over and over until we get it right.
Those are the things that move the discussion the direction you want it, re-framing the argument, instead of shouting the same losing argument loud and long til people stop listening to you.
But if you point out the obvious deadly and dangerous failures when they occur, you can ask the question: are we getting our money's worth? Like when cops strangle a citizen for a non violent allegation. Or when we have cops hiding outside a room while children get shot for an hour, to ask the if we are really getting what we pay for, in terms of training people, hiring the right people. Hold them accountable. Yeah you can kill unarmed citizens at a traffic stop, but you can't stop a gunman from executing children. You are not doing what we pay you to do.
Doc
Republicans *literally* do the opposite of this. And they just won a HUGE VICTORY. Persuasion is for losers.
The Republicans are not interested in persuading people. They brainwash them. Fine! Two can play at that game, and the name of the game is to rant and rave about something often enough that people start thinking they believed it the whole time.
I actually have a very sophisticated and nuanced definition of defunding the police, I've said it over and over in this thread, and did I persuade anyone? No. Instead, people ask me OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO DEFINE SOMETHING I'VE ALREADY DEFINED SEVERAL TIMES, IN GREAT, GREAT DETAIL. No one in this thread is paying the slightest bit of attention to me. When I calmly and rationally explain my reasoning everyone falls asleep.
You in particular are not paying attention to a word I've said. Police reform doesn't work, and I've explained why quite clearly. You can't teach a horse to moo like a cow. If you need cows, and you have limited resources, replace some of your horses with cows.
The Republicans know this. They're not stupid. They don't bother trying to explain their policies. They rant and rave and foam at the mouth.
So screw persuasion. From now on it's all brainwashing, all the time. DEFUND THE POLICE.
Here, maybe I'm just dumb and inarticulate. This article summarizes parts of the idea well, although it doesn't touch on police militarization.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/06/23/if-the-police-arent-needed-lets-leave-them-out-completelyHere's an article on police militarization, the primary reason my friend Paul Schenck was murdered by a S.W.A.T. team that Mike DeWine invaded our village with without our consent:
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/its-past-time-to-end-the-federal-militarization-of-policeI've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
