Craft your 2022-23 Celtics Roster – (20-Man Off-Season)

[Hal14]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

Yeah.

We need a PF who is strong enough to defend centers on a switch who can also shoot the 3 pointer.

Not alot of these dudes out there unfortunately.

We have 3 of those guys already (Horford, grant, theis)

And we can add another one in the draft with Yoan Makoundou.

[Trilogy25]

Theis should stay and eat up minutes during the regular season.

[Larry_Russell]

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

Yeah.

We need a PF who is strong enough to defend centers on a switch who can also shoot the 3 pointer.

Not alot of these dudes out there unfortunately.

We have 3 of those guys already (Horford, grant, theis)

And we can add another one in the draft with Yoan Makoundou.

I wouldnt put theis in that talk.


Grant is indeed potentially the guy though.

[neno]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

18-47 career 38% 3pt

[hugepatsfan]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

18-47 career 38% 3pt

Like I said, he needs to shoot it with regularity. No one is respecting your floor spacing from a guy with 47 career shots.

[celticfan42487]

Hartenstein should be the big man focus in off-season start him at the 4 with the lord at the 5 horford and grant off the bench

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

18-47 career 38% 3pt

He's a vet min salary player that should be glued to the bench unless we need him to eat up minutes due to foul trouble against a Giannis or Embiid.

He's not good at all.

[neno]

He's not even close to a viable PF next to Timelord unless he shoots the 3 with regularity. Two big lineups are basically extinct in the NBA because you don't get enough floor spacing. We're fortunate enough to get that with Horford and Grant so we're able to run it. But that's necessary to have any success in two bigs.

18-47 career 38% 3pt

He's a vet min salary player that should be glued to the bench unless we need him to eat up minutes due to foul trouble against a Giannis or Embiid.

He's not good at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.basketballnews.com/stories/amp/nba-stats-notebook-isaiah-hartenstein-is-the-clippers-secret-weapon

[hugepatsfan]

18-47 career 38% 3pt

He's a vet min salary player that should be glued to the bench unless we need him to eat up minutes due to foul trouble against a Giannis or Embiid.

He's not good at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.basketballnews.com/stories/amp/nba-stats-notebook-isaiah-hartenstein-is-the-clippers-secret-weapon

Agreed he has an intriguing skill set. But you mentioned him as a possibility to start at PF next to Timelord. This article you posted includes a few very damning arguments against that:

"He has yet to expand his game consistently beyond the arc or even in the mid-range."

"Hartenstein also really struggles to defend guards in space. The stats don't paint him as an overt negative, but Utah in particular attacked him in switches and beat him off the dribble."

Everything in that article suggests he'd be a god backup to Rob but a very poor starter next to him.

[Fencer reregistered]

The Celtics are really benefiting from the complete-player model. Every rotation player except Pritchard is a seriously plus defender, and he isn't bad. The Jays, Pritchard, Horford and Grant all are dangerous 3pt shooters; Smart and White have plenty of moments as well. The entire starting lineup plus White are dangerous passers now (admittedly in some cases to both teams ), and Grant/Pritchard are getting there. Etc.

Brad really just adopted that approach mid-season, and success was immediate. So I think that roster-building model will continue.

[Parliament10]

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[165bows]

The Celtics are really benefiting from the complete-player model. Every rotation player except Pritchard is a seriously plus defender, and he isn't bad. The Jays, Pritchard, Horford and Grant all are dangerous 3pt shooters; Smart and White have plenty of moments as well. The entire starting lineup plus White are dangerous passers now (admittedly in some cases to both teams ), and Grant/Pritchard are getting there. Etc.

Brad really just adopted that approach mid-season, and success was immediate. So I think that roster-building model will continue.

I think that has become the new model in the league really for players. Step one is you have to have very broad defensive versatility. Then you have to have at least one reliable offensive skill. On the offensive side of the ball, shooters you can have as many as you want on the floor but it's difficult to have more than one guy that either 1.) can only finish inside, or 2). needs to have the ball in their hands (Rondo types, slashers, non-shooting guards, etc etc). Plus for the Celtics I think they really value all the offensive players being at minimum capable passers.

So we can pretty much take that and go from there.

[Hal14]

The Celtics are really benefiting from the complete-player model. Every rotation player except Pritchard is a seriously plus defender, and he isn't bad. The Jays, Pritchard, Horford and Grant all are dangerous 3pt shooters; Smart and White have plenty of moments as well. The entire starting lineup plus White are dangerous passers now (admittedly in some cases to both teams ), and Grant/Pritchard are getting there. Etc.

Brad really just adopted that approach mid-season, and success was immediate. So I think that roster-building model will continue.

Exactly why I think we keep it simple this offseason and just bring J-Rich back using the TPE.

He loved it here. All the guys loved him. He could shoot and play good D. Plus he had that cool move off the dribble where he could finish with the lefty scoop shot at the rim off the wrong foot.

[SatchSanders]

The Celtics are really benefiting from the complete-player model. Every rotation player except Pritchard is a seriously plus defender, and he isn't bad. The Jays, Pritchard, Horford and Grant all are dangerous 3pt shooters; Smart and White have plenty of moments as well. The entire starting lineup plus White are dangerous passers now (admittedly in some cases to both teams ), and Grant/Pritchard are getting there. Etc.

Brad really just adopted that approach mid-season, and success was immediate. So I think that roster-building model will continue.

Exactly why I think we keep it simple this offseason and just bring J-Rich back using the TPE.

He loved it here. All the guys loved him. He could shoot and play good D. Plus he had that cool move off the dribble where he could finish with the lefty scoop shot at the rim off the wrong foot.

It seemed part of the deal with Richardson was that he had an inclination to hold onto the ball too long rather than to make quick decisions. Do you think that's overblown given his salary or is that a more significant issue? I'm asking because I tend to think a successor to Al is the top priority, and I'm not sure they are ready to give up on Nesmith yet (if he doesn't go in a "successor to Al" trade).

[Hal14]

The Celtics are really benefiting from the complete-player model. Every rotation player except Pritchard is a seriously plus defender, and he isn't bad. The Jays, Pritchard, Horford and Grant all are dangerous 3pt shooters; Smart and White have plenty of moments as well. The entire starting lineup plus White are dangerous passers now (admittedly in some cases to both teams ), and Grant/Pritchard are getting there. Etc.

Brad really just adopted that approach mid-season, and success was immediate. So I think that roster-building model will continue.

Exactly why I think we keep it simple this offseason and just bring J-Rich back using the TPE.

He loved it here. All the guys loved him. He could shoot and play good D. Plus he had that cool move off the dribble where he could finish with the lefty scoop shot at the rim off the wrong foot.

It seemed part of the deal with Richardson was that he had an inclination to hold onto the ball too long rather than to make quick decisions. Do you think that's overblown given his salary or is that a more significant issue? I'm asking because I tend to think a successor to Al is the top priority, and I'm not sure they are ready to give up on Nesmith yet (if he doesn't go in a "successor to Al" trade).

Yeah maybe Josh Hart plays with better pace on offense makes quicker decisions with the ball so we could try and get him with the TPE instead. I think J-Rich is a little better defensively though - plus he already knows the team, the system, etc.

[Parasite]

I think we should just run it back next year and hope Nesmith makes a jump into rotation level player. Theis is getting too much hate as well. He is a valuable minutes eater in the regular season. The biggest question to me is Timelord staying healthy. If he does we will be a machine.

[darrendaye]

How Al's situation personally is handled for the next 1-3 years will be interesting.

[hugepatsfan]

Exactly why I think we keep it simple this offseason and just bring J-Rich back using the TPE.

He loved it here. All the guys loved him. He could shoot and play good D. Plus he had that cool move off the dribble where he could finish with the lefty scoop shot at the rim off the wrong foot.

It seemed part of the deal with Richardson was that he had an inclination to hold onto the ball too long rather than to make quick decisions. Do you think that's overblown given his salary or is that a more significant issue? I'm asking because I tend to think a successor to Al is the top priority, and I'm not sure they are ready to give up on Nesmith yet (if he doesn't go in a "successor to Al" trade).

Yeah maybe Josh Hart plays with better pace on offense makes quicker decisions with the ball so we could try and get him with the TPE instead. I think J-Rich is a little better defensively though - plus he already knows the team, the system, etc.

Portland values Hart. You’d need to give up a 1st probably and even then he might just not be someone they want to move.

I don’t think JRich is an ideal target because he’s THAT good. It’s because he’s someone who SA might legitimately just give away to open up more cap space. Same way we got him last year, giving up nothing.

Wouldn’t at all be opposed to bringing JRich back and then moving him at the deadline again next year with a pick attached again for another Derrick White type of addition. The Fournier TPE expires in mid July so a guy like JRich extends the shelf life of it.

[Fencer reregistered]

The penchant for fourth quarter collapses can be interpreted as evidence that our rotation is too short. E.g., in Game 4 it didn't really look like guys were choking or panicking or anything like that, so much as that they were playing tired. So, injury backups even aside, it would be nice to have another perimeter player or two good enough -- and with enough boxes checked -- to actually get on the court.

[Hal14]

The penchant for fourth quarter collapses can be interpreted as evidence that our rotation is too short. E.g., in Game 4 it didn't really look like guys were choking or panicking or anything like that, so much as that they were playing tired. So, injury backups even aside, it would be nice to have another perimeter player or two good enough -- and with enough boxes checked -- to actually get on the court.

i don't know that we were tired. I just think we played like crap in the 2nd half last night. We didn't bring the energy, urgency, focus or intensity needed to beat a team as good as the warriors - especially when the greatest shooter to ever shoot a basketball put on one of the best performances in NBA finals history.

Tough loss but I'm confident Ime really let them have it after that game for the lack of effort and lack of execution. I'm confident he's gonna really have them fired up for game 5.

[neno]

He's a vet min salary player that should be glued to the bench unless we need him to eat up minutes due to foul trouble against a Giannis or Embiid.

He's not good at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.basketballnews.com/stories/amp/nba-stats-notebook-isaiah-hartenstein-is-the-clippers-secret-weapon

Agreed he has an intriguing skill set. But you mentioned him as a possibility to start at PF next to Timelord. This article you posted includes a few very damning arguments against that:

"He has yet to expand his game consistently beyond the arc or even in the mid-range."

"Hartenstein also really struggles to defend guards in space. The stats don't paint him as an overt negative, but Utah in particular attacked him in switches and beat him off the dribble."

Everything in that article suggests he'd be a god backup to Rob but a very poor starter next to him.

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He grades out however as a very good perimeter defender apparently