Chamberlain, Ewing, Mutombo: How effective would they be defensively today?

[ceiling raiser]

All three guys are probably top 15 defenders all-time, and have arguments for top 5 or higher.

None of the three, however, was incredibly mobile on defense. This is not an indictment of athleticism -- Wilt was very athletic -- but the nature of their defensive areas of influence.

Note: I didn't pick these three as caricatures, but because they are the best defenders of this archetype.

How effective would they be today defensively, in an era where spacing is of the utmost importance, and in which defensive three seconds limits the ability of big man defenders to camp in the paint?

Could they emulate or surpass Gobert's efficacy? Or would they be more like a Hibbert, limited by schemes? Embiid is probably more mobile on defense than any of the three were, so he might not be a great comparison.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt would be the best defender in the NBA today.

Kansas City Chiefs coach Hank Stram interested in signing Wilt Chamberlain.

“The seven-foot-one center, who weighs 290 pounds, was timed in 4.6 seconds for a 40-yard run in bare feet.”

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He also had a 42 to 44 inch vertical jump.

What was so impressive about Wilt's defence was that he almost never bit on shot fakes and was rarely in foul trouble.

Plus he was also capable of switching on to forwards as Russell did

[ceiling raiser]

Plus he was also capable of switching on to forwards as Russell did

Are there similar anecdotes to these for Wilt? I put this together a few years ago for a project on this board.

Also, not to spam quotes (thanks to ThaRegul8r for help finding these), but mobility wouldn't be an issue with Russell (Dipper also has some good footage of his insane recovery ability I believe):

"With Russell," said Hayes "you never know what to expect. He has such great lateral movement. He's always got an angle on you. He told me that he can take just two steps and block a shot from any position on the court. I remember the first time I was matched up against him. I was out in the corner and he was under the basket. I figured it was safe to shoot. But as I went up, there he was, tipping the shot.
(Pat Putnam, “Big E For Elvin's Two Big Efforts: His coach didn't let him go head-to-head with Chamberlain and Russell on successive nights, but Hayes wowed 'em anyway.” Sports Illustrated. Nov. 25, 1968. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148045/2/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

“Bill’s great mobility enabled him to block jump shots all over the court.”
— Pete Newell

“Russell would chase you everywhere. I’ve taken 20-footers that were blocked by Russell.”
— Johnny Kerr

“Bill Russell used to be able to go out and block shots. You’ve got to differentiate that from Wilt Chamberlain, who would block the shots coming to the basket, but Russell would go out and deter you from shooting.”
— Marty Blake, NBA Director of Scouting Services

“He was a unique defensive player because he could literally come out and play a guard or forward. Most centers can’t do that. Even today, there is no way that they can play guards, but he could do that.”
— Jerry West

“[H]e could go out and defend out on the perimeter, which seems to be a lost art today.”
— Marty Blake

“I’ve seen him come out and pick up players like Neil Johnston and Bob Pettit. He doesn’t stand in one spot.”
— Jacko Collins, supervisor of NBA officials

“He was so […] quick off the ball that he could double-team and trap you at a moment’s notice or jump out to help a defender on a pick and roll.”
— Oscar Robertson, The Big O: My Life, My Times, My Game, p. 142

On rebounding (related topic):

“Russell had an effective rebounding range of eighteen feet. If he was nine feet off to one side of the basket, he could race over to pull down a rebound nine feet off to the other side! I saw him do it many times. That’s the kind of athletic ability he had.”
— Tom Heinsohn, Give 'em the Hook, p. 64

[coastalmarker99]

Plus he was also capable of switching on to forwards as Russell did

Thoughts on these quotes? I put these together a few years ago:

Also, not to spam quotes (thanks to ThaRegul8r for help finding these), but mobility wouldn't be an issue with Russell (Dipper also has some good footage of his insane recovery ability I believe):

"With Russell," said Hayes "you never know what to expect. He has such great lateral movement. He's always got an angle on you. He told me that he can take just two steps and block a shot from any position on the court. I remember the first time I was matched up against him. I was out in the corner and he was under the basket. I figured it was safe to shoot. But as I went up, there he was, tipping the shot.
(Pat Putnam, “Big E For Elvin's Two Big Efforts: His coach didn't let him go head-to-head with Chamberlain and Russell on successive nights, but Hayes wowed 'em anyway.” Sports Illustrated. Nov. 25, 1968. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148045/2/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

“Bill’s great mobility enabled him to block jump shots all over the court.”
— Pete Newell

“Russell would chase you everywhere. I’ve taken 20-footers that were blocked by Russell.”
— Johnny Kerr

“Bill Russell used to be able to go out and block shots. You’ve got to differentiate that from Wilt Chamberlain, who would block the shots coming to the basket, but Russell would go out and deter you from shooting.”
— Marty Blake, NBA Director of Scouting Services

“He was a unique defensive player because he could literally come out and play a guard or forward. Most centers can’t do that. Even today, there is no way that they can play guards, but he could do that.”
— Jerry West

“[H]e could go out and defend out on the perimeter, which seems to be a lost art today.”
— Marty Blake

“I’ve seen him come out and pick up players like Neil Johnston and Bob Pettit. He doesn’t stand in one spot.”
— Jacko Collins, supervisor of NBA officials

“He was so […] quick off the ball that he could double-team and trap you at a moment’s notice or jump out to help a defender on a pick and roll.”
— Oscar Robertson, The Big O: My Life, My Times, My Game, p. 142

On rebounding (related topic):

“Russell had an effective rebounding range of eighteen feet. If he was nine feet off to one side of the basket, he could race over to pull down a rebound nine feet off to the other side! I saw him do it many times. That’s the kind of athletic ability he had.”
— Tom Heinsohn, Give 'em the Hook, p. 64

I was reading news archive accounts where prior era players and current era players compared Wilt and Russell in the early 1960s and one of the nuances one of the players pointed out with respect to Wilt and Russell's defence.

Would be that Wilt played defence "everywhere" on the floor and as far as their minds had determined this would "waste his time and energy" defending guards on switches and contesting shooters who are basically, outside the painted area and it took him away from where he is potentially best.

They called this aspect of his defence undisciplined, unlike Russell, who they specifically stated played in a sort of "zone" and never left it.

Even if a good shooter got the ball he'd just stand there and watch them shoot it as opposed to actually attempt to contest it because in their eyes - he was doing what he was supposed to do which is focus on stopping layups, not jumpers

Basically, they're saying Wilt was a guy who would willingly defend the pick and roll (even if it didn't suit his physical abilities) and Russell at that time would basically stay in a zone defence (I know zone was illegal, but I'm sure he tried his best to do it within confines of refs and rules anyways).

All that said though, It's possible Wilt shifted his defensive priorities around at various times of his career, because later in 1967 Hannum says Wilt stayed under the basket even more so than Russell and Thurmond.


So, perhaps as with how Wilt shifted his offensive priorities he may have also shifted his defensive priorities depending on the seasons.

There are examples of him playing defence way outside the paint on many Warriors teams, and in the 1972 Finals game 5 you can see it too.

And man, in his college footage he will actually apply pressure defence far out at times - like 30+ feet out so he's hard to peg. I'd bet specific coaches would be best able to say how he played defense for them in a specific season.

[ceiling raiser]

snippet

Can you share some quotes? I keep files with anecdotes and these would be great to have for future reference.

For the record, I don't think this is a slight -- Gobert is probably the best defensive player in the league today (I like Draymond more but he has been inconsistent on that end in the playoffs), so if Wilt defended similarly it's still DPOY level or greater if he was as effective.

[SkyHookFTW]

Wilt was too good of an athlete to not be able to make the transition. He would be a DPOY candidate. I suspect all three would be very effective defenders. Mutombo and his hands of stone the worst on offense by a good margin.

[HeartBreakKid]

I think they were quite mobile. Can't think of many 7 footers who were more mobile than them.

If you mean they're not as mobile as like Draymond Green, well yeah, they're like 6 inches taller. But clearly big guys still impact the game defensively, and they're not any slower than a lot of the good 7 foot defenders.

[penbeast0]

Mark Eaton on the other hand . . . still dominant despite being extremely slow afoot? Probably but also probably has his defensive game more affected by the greater spacing on shots and increased mobility and range of his man.

[coastalmarker99]

We know that a 36-year-old Wilt blocked 446 shots in 1972-73 (5.44 a game), his 14th and final season in the league.

28-year-old Mark Eaton blocked 456 shots in 1984-85 (5.56 a game) his third season in the league, the most since blocks were an official statistic.

So Wilt at 36 years old in his last season in the league blocked 10 fewer shots than the record for most blocks in a season since they officially started recording them in '73-74.

In other words, only one guy (almost 10 years his junior) in the almost 50 years after Wilt's retirement blocked more shots in a season than Wilt did the last year of his career.

So if he did that his last year in the league I think Wilt would be fine in today's game.

[70sFan]

I don't see any reason to doubt them at their bests. Wilt was known for his athleticism and although his body type isn't perfect for modern era (high center of gravity, explosive but not super quick), he'd do as well as any 7 footer of course.

I think people underrate Mutombo's mobility in general. I don't think he was much slower than current version of Gobert (if at all), at least if you take his 1994 version. Same with Ewing before injury and Ewing wasn't even that massive - he was around 6'11 and 250 lbs in his peak years.

[ceiling raiser]

Question - Has anybody aggregated DRtg data for regular season and playoffs for all-time defenders? I'm interested in looking year-over-year at these three guys. I think Ben included some regular season data in his top careers project a few years back.

I feel like I may be underrating Wilt all-time. If I view him as a top 10 defender all-time, I probably need to be much higher on him overall.

[70sFan]

Question - Has anybody aggregated DRtg data for regular season and playoffs for all-time defenders? I'm interested in looking year-over-year at these three guys. I think Ben included some regular season data in his top careers project a few years back.

I feel like I may be underrating Wilt all-time. If I view him as a top 10 defender all-time, I probably need to be much higher on him overall.

Will come back when I find the time to calculate it.

[homecourtloss]

I don't see any reason to doubt them at their bests. Wilt was known for his athleticism and although his body type isn't perfect for modern era (high center of gravity, explosive but not super quick), he'd do as well as any 7 footer of course.

I think people underrate Mutombo's mobility in general. I don't think he was much slower than current version of Gobert (if at all), at least if you take his 1994 version. Same with Ewing before injury and Ewing wasn't even that massive - he was around 6'11 and 250 lbs in his peak years.

I’d have to say Gobert is more fluid in his movement compared to Dikembe and doesn’t move like a typical 7 footer. He also has a greater capacity to switch directions and is quicker to react which makes a big difference in the space and pace era. Mutumbo, though, did move more effectively than what most people remember because the first image we get of him is being awkwardly all legs and arms with non-fluid movement but he got to spots and read offensive sets well. He’d still be highly effective defensively though not sure if he’d be the absolute all-time defensive monster he was at his peak three years.

[Buckets22]

Wilt and Ewing should be fine, Mt. Mutombo - I'm not that sure...but if Baguette Biyombo banks 25M a year he should find a place in the league.

About comparing Wilt and Russel on defence - don't forget that Wilt had to carry the offense on the other side of the floor while playing 48 mins a game, he might've saved gasoline on D.

[capfan33]

They would probably just stay at a lower weight and emphasis lateral quickness more when training. None of these guys are ideal mobile centers but I'm sure they could make it work. There all better than Gobert and Gobert has been very effective, his teams **** perimeter defense aside.

[Samurai]

All 3 would still be great defensive players but I think Wilt would be the best of the 3. Assuming they were all born in 1992 (same year as Gobert), all three would have been raised in an era where much more of the game is played on the perimeter than in their eras (especially Wilt's). Wilt was reluctant to chase guys on the perimeter but it was not due to a lack of athleticism; it was the way the game was played closer to the basket and where his coaches wanted him to be. If he were born in 1992, his coaches in high school and college would have encouraged him to use his athleticism on his perimeter defense. And likely would have encouraged him to develop a 3-point shot himself.