O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson

[khufure]

Would rather keep Rudy than trade him for older/worse players. I think there are ways to make it work without Pat depending on what a third team would give for Vooch. I envision Utah getting 18 + Ayo + Por 1st from Chicago, then value from a third team if Williams is not involved. But, I would have less than zero interest in swapping Rudy for Derozan and Vucevic.

I get you but it's clear that Rudy and Donovan do not coexist with each other nor do they like each other at all. I think the whole Rudy covid situation really severed the relationship between Rudy and the rest of his teammates. One of them is gone and it's probably going to be Rudy. Believe it or not, I think Vuc would be a better fit than Rudy is especially on offense. It remains to be see what happens...

I don't think they have personal issues anymore, they've both gone to great lengths to deny it. They also compliment each other really well.

I think Vucevic is probably the worst possible fit for us. He doesn't defend well, he isn't a huge PnR threat, and we are already the best three-point shooting team in the league. Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player, I just don't like him with our roster composition because we don't need what he brings, but we do need what he is poor at.

It's really a huge shame we've never been able to put the right pieces around Rudy and Donovan, but I think Chicago would already have the infrastructure in place around Rudy and LaVine to be a real threat to win a championship. Certainly not a favorite, but in the tier that Phoenix was this year.

How like are you the Jazz to actually trade Gobert? Are they really gonna blow it up and try a rebuild, I guess around Mitchell? I had thought it was wild speculation by some bored sports journalist...

[jnrjr79]

Another overlooked fact is that Ainge is calling the shots, AKA Danny "I'm gonna fleece ya everytime" Ainge. Buyer Beware!

This is not overlooked! People have been saying it over and over in the thread!

[CROBulls]

Another overlooked fact is that Ainge is calling the shots, AKA Danny "I'm gonna fleece ya everytime" Ainge. Buyer Beware!

This is not overlooked! People have been saying it over and over in the thread!

This is why you trust AKME. We are not getting fleeced.

[dougthonus]

Another overlooked fact is that Ainge is calling the shots, AKA Danny "I'm gonna fleece ya everytime" Ainge. Buyer Beware!

This is not overlooked! People have been saying it over and over in the thread!

This is why you trust AKME. We are not getting fleeced.

We got fleeced the last time he traded for an all-star center. Made a bottom 5 trade in Bulls history.

[Jcool0]

This is not overlooked! People have been saying it over and over in the thread!

This is why you trust AKME. We are not getting fleeced.

We got fleeced the last time he traded for an all-star center. Made a bottom 5 trade in Bulls history.

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

[rosenthall]

This is why you trust AKME. We are not getting fleeced.

We got fleeced the last time he traded for an all-star center. Made a bottom 5 trade in Bulls history.

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

I doubt you could trade Vuc straight up for either Franz Wagner or Wendell Carter Jr right now. So from an asset standpoint, it certainly looks like a bad trade.

The big cost of the Vuc trade wasn't so much on court performance last year (though that wasn't great), it's due to the fact that we have no more trade assets left, because we gave them all up to acquire him.

If Vuc was a real 'star', then I'd be okay with it. But he's basically a role player. Draft picks and young guys on rookie contracts are typically the most liquid trade assets a team has, consolidating all of them into a single player is something you can do once every 5 years or so.

So even though the on-court ramifications are modest (probably slightly in our favor last year), the team building ramifications are pretty draconian.

[MrSparkle]

IMO , Ayton will move. Seems his camp's unhappy, Sarver's a money-pincher, and their salary situation is going to be steep once Mikal's and Shamet's extensions kick in.

If he does, Suns need a replacement, and a cheap(er) big would be the idea. So Vuc or Nurkic would make sense for them.

I'm not sure if AKME are 100% interested in Ayton; basketball and personality wise, Gobert is more up their alley, but age and potential, of course Ayton might be the better value.

Maybe Utah is interested in Ayton to pair with Mitchell, but no chance in hell Server adds Gobert's salary to their books.

Blazers would probably gladly take Ayton or Gobert, what with their cap space and decision to double down on Lillard. #7 is too strong an asset for either C, but giant cap relief would be appealing to UTA and PHX.

Whatever happens, I think Vuc/Coby/#18/POR-1st is more than enough of a strong package to bring in the upgrade C. In fact, I'd take one of those FRPs out (18) unless a 2nd rotation player or late 1st/2nd is coming back.

There are a lot of logical help-you-help-me scenarios here. Kinda complicated with multiple S&T parts, but also it makes it a more malleable situation (teams can make the numbers work, or strike parallel FA deals, etc.).

[Jcool0]

We got fleeced the last time he traded for an all-star center. Made a bottom 5 trade in Bulls history.

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

I doubt you could trade Vuc straight up for either Franz Wagner or Wendell Carter Jr right now. So from an asset standpoint, it certainly looks like a bad trade.

The big cost of the Vuc trade wasn't so much on court performance last year (though that wasn't great), it's due to the fact that we have no more trade assets left, because we gave them all up to acquire him.

If Vuc was a real 'star', then I'd be okay with it. But he's basically a role player. Draft picks and young guys on rookie contracts are typically the most liquid trade assets a team has, consolidating all of them into a single player is something you can do once every 5 years or so.

So even though the on-court ramifications are modest (probably slightly in our favor last year), the team building ramifications are pretty draconian.

Why would Chicago want either of those players? Its so weird fans act like WCJ is some kind of future star when they hated him here and the only difference in his game is he is getting more shots in Orlando.

[dougthonus]

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

WCJ was unequivocally better than Vuc last season at half the cost and on a value contract going forward. Wagner looks like a high upside prospect.

We got the worse player, the worse contract, gave up 2 first rounders (one a lotto pick that looks like a great prospect), took on bad salary (which cost us a 3rd 1st round pick to unload), and we did this for a short term improvement and didn't even win the short term side of the deal.

It was a complete f'ing disaster from a value perspective if you look at the context of which it was done. This team would be radically better positioned if we could undo that trade.

You could not trade Vuc for Carter straight up. You could not trade him for Wagner straight up. You may or may not be able to trade him for the 2023 1st straight up. You may or may not be able to trade him for the conditional 2025 1st we had to give up so SA would take on dead money straight up.

Just awful.

[rosenthall]

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

I doubt you could trade Vuc straight up for either Franz Wagner or Wendell Carter Jr right now. So from an asset standpoint, it certainly looks like a bad trade.

The big cost of the Vuc trade wasn't so much on court performance last year (though that wasn't great), it's due to the fact that we have no more trade assets left, because we gave them all up to acquire him.

If Vuc was a real 'star', then I'd be okay with it. But he's basically a role player. Draft picks and young guys on rookie contracts are typically the most liquid trade assets a team has, consolidating all of them into a single player is something you can do once every 5 years or so.

So even though the on-court ramifications are modest (probably slightly in our favor last year), the team building ramifications are pretty draconian.

Why would Chicago want either of those players? Its so weird fans act like WCJ is some kind of future star when they hated him here and the only difference in his game is he is getting more shots in Orlando.

For the Bulls, I think right now Vuc > Carter + Wagner, but it's close.

However, in terms of trade value, I definitely think Carter + Wagner > Vuc, and that's not including the pick we have going to them. This entire thread is devoted to trade ideas for Vuc, so if we're looking to move him, I'd rather we have Carter + Wagner on our roster.

[Jcool0]

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

WCJ was unequivocally better than Vuc last season at half the cost and on a value contract going forward. Wagner looks like a high upside prospect.

We got the worse player, the worse contract, gave up 2 first rounders (one a lotto pick that looks like a great prospect), took on bad salary (which cost us a 3rd 1st round pick to unload), and we did this for a short term improvement and didn't even win the short term side of the deal.

It was a complete f'ing disaster from a value perspective if you look at the context of which it was done. This team would be radically better positioned if we could undo that trade.

WCJ put up the same stats he did in Chicago just with more shots taken. Wagner looks like an average prospect. He has Lauri run in December but was pretty average the rest of the year. Its only a disaster in your mind.

[dougthonus]

Why would Chicago want either of those players? Its so weird fans act like WCJ is some kind of future star when they hated him here and the only difference in his game is he is getting more shots in Orlando.

Why would we want a center better than any center on our roster at 10M per year? When we are paying a worse guy 20M and will need value contracts going forward? Seems pretty obvious. Why would we want another ball handler / shooter / shot creator? Again, seems pretty obvious.

Especially if you project out that you are building around LaVine, having two quality looking guys who are young and have matching timelines around him and would fill in rotation player holes at below market prices sure sounds like it'd be awesome.

Hopefully, I don't to explain why we'd rather have 2 more 1st round picks than nothing.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

He got fleeced? Vuc worst season is still better then WCJ best and those draft picks havent hurt the Bulls at all.

WCJ was unequivocally better than Vuc last season at half the cost and on a value contract going forward. Wagner looks like a high upside prospect.

We got the worse player, the worse contract, gave up 2 first rounders (one a lotto pick that looks like a great prospect), took on bad salary (which cost us a 3rd 1st round pick to unload), and we did this for a short term improvement and didn't even win the short term side of the deal.

It was a complete f'ing disaster from a value perspective if you look at the context of which it was done. This team would be radically better positioned if we could undo that trade.

You could not trade Vuc for Carter straight up. You could not trade him for Wagner straight up. You may or may not be able to trade him for the 2023 1st straight up. You may or may not be able to trade him for the conditional 2025 1st we had to give up so SA would take on dead money straight up.

Just awful.

Given this forums optimism on Pat Williams, a player that really hasn't shown anything, I can't imagine how people would be talking about Wagner here. He's essentially a perfect 4 for the modern NBA, will likely be an allstar. The Magic not only wouldn't trade Vuc for him, there isn't a player on Chicago they'd trade him for.

Bottom 5 trade easily. Just wait till we see how Wagner pans out, it will likely be bottom 1. lol

[Jcool0]

Given this forums optimism on Pat Williams, a player that really hasn't shown anything, I can't imagine how people would be talking about Wagner here. He's essentially a perfect 4 for the modern NBA, will likely be an allstar. The Magic not only wouldn't trade Vuc for him, there isn't a player on Chicago they'd trade him for.

Bottom 5 trade easily. Just wait till we see how Wagner pans out, it will likely be bottom 1. lol

1. Franz Wanger is a 3 not a 4.

2. 15 ppg, 4 rebounds and 2.9 assist is an average SF not a likely All-Star.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Given this forums optimism on Pat Williams, a player that really hasn't shown anything, I can't imagine how people would be talking about Wagner here. He's essentially a perfect 4 for the modern NBA, will likely be an allstar. The Magic not only wouldn't trade Vuc for him, there isn't a player on Chicago they'd trade him for.

Bottom 5 trade easily. Just wait till we see how Wagner pans out, it will likely be bottom 1. lol

1. Franz Wanger is a 3 not a 4.

2. 15 ppg, 4 rebounds and 2.9 assist is an average SF not a likely All-Star.

He started in a disjointed roster next to 2 centers. He'll almost certainly defend the 4 for his career, unless he's stuck with this roster. Not any meaningful point, but harp on those if it makes you feel better.

Those are rookie numbers for the 20 year old. Given his feel for the game, creation, fact that he was often the sole creator on the team, 4th in rookie team voting, yeah, he'll be an allstar. I didn't say he was an all star last year. If you think the 20 year old is maxed out, good luck with that take.

Why not post the trade back on the trade board with neutral fans if you're confident it was meaningless, and not a bad trade for Chicago? Would love to see that.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Its only a disaster in your mind.

What a terrible take.

[dougthonus]

1. Franz Wanger is a 3 not a 4.

2. 15 ppg, 4 rebounds and 2.9 assist is an average SF not a likely All-Star.

2/3rds of the guys that made that criteria were allstars
about half were guys you'd view as max players

Here is the 1/3rd that didn't:

Very good chance of making one in the future still:
DeAndre Ayton
Scottie Barnes
Evan Mobley
Anthony Edwards
Cade Cunningham

Rotation Players:
Eric Gordon
Brandon Jennings
Emeka Okafor
Kyle Kuzma
Colin Sexton
Ben Gordon
Tyreke Evans
O.J. Mayo
Lauri Markkanen
Kendrick Nunn

Bust
Michael Carter Williams
Jahlil Okafor
Dennis Smith Jr

The stats there aren't super rare, but it's really rare for a guy to have them and suck.

[sco]

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/brooklyn-nets-chicago-bulls-nicolas-claxton/

As a 24-year-old full of raw talent, Claxton could pique the interest of teams who are not necessarily among the top title contenders but are looking to add players who can help get them to that point. One Eastern Conference general manager says that the Bulls could be interested in Claxton to replace their All-Star center Nikola Vucevic.

I wonder what Claxton would cost? Would BKN let him get away for the MLE?

[madvillian]

Dude Franz Wagner can guard the 1-4 spots and was a revelation on a horrible team at 19 years old. There was a stretch where as the 1st option he was actually putting up an efficient 20 points a night. He faded late but that's a typical rookie.

I love pat but Franz Wagner is basically the player we all hoped for in Williams. Sky is the limit for Franz. I'd be shocked if he didn't make at least a couple ASGs in his career. What he did at 19 was incredibly impressive for any rookie, especially one drafted mid lottery.

[sco]

Dude Franz Wagner can guard the 1-4 spots and was a revelation on a horrible team at 19 years old. There was a stretch where as the 1st option he was actually putting up an efficient 20 points a night. He faded late but that's a typical rookie.

I love pat but Franz Wagner is basically the player we all hoped for in Williams. Sky is the limit for Franz. I'd be shocked if he didn't make at least a couple ASGs in his career. What he did at 19 was incredibly impressive for any rookie, especially one drafted mid lottery.

As a UofM fan, I was high on Wagner. That said, there's no telling if the Bulls would have taken him. I thought he was a bit of a reach there.