2007 Duncan vs 2008 Kobe

[LAL1947]

Spoiler:

All of that are your assumptions. In reality you have no idea how it would end up. It was a tied series and it's not uncommon for teams to win the series in that situation.

By the way, unsurprisingly game 5 was by far Suns best defensive game of the series without Amare. Spurs killed Amare on defense throughout the series. It's not a given they would have fared better with him in the first place.


Do you have any evidences to back this statement up?


Duncan averaged 29/14/1 on 62 TS% during the first 4 games of the series. Try to be a bit more objective.


You do the same, Duncan would have been top candidate without a ring. There are plenty of evidences. You're not listening. Are you there for discussion, or you care only to force your narrative?

Just admit the Suns and Nash had the Spurs and Duncan beat. I can't think of another reason why a team would have a player of theirs injure the best player on another team, unless they are desperate. Robery Horry did not do something like this while on the Lakers or Rockets. Isn't it strange how he did it after joining the Spurs, the same team who also employed Bowen, and had Bowen constantly trying to injure the other team's best guard/wing (like Kobe)? Also, Duncan didn't even finish Top 3 in the MVP votes. Not in 2004-05, not in 2005-06, not in 2006-07.

It would also be nice if you could admit Kobe was the better player in 2006-07. Thanks.

I won't admit any of these, because I don't agree with you. I don't see any reason why I should, you present no arguments here outside of your opinions.

Lol, these are not my opinions.... everything in this post you replied to is a frikkin' FACT!!

1) Did Horry try to injure a best player on another team when he was on Lakers/Rockets? No
2) Did Bruce Bowen also try to injure the best players on other teams? Yes
3) Which team did both of these play for when they did the dirty deeds? The Spurs
4) Did Steve Nash have his team running circles around the Spurs in Game 4? Yes
5) What happened next? The Spurs took out Steve Nash. Check
6) Duncan was not in Top 3 of MVP votes for those seasons. Check

All FACTS! Including that Kobe was better than Duncan.

Also, do you think you are not pushing your own opinion here too? I've provided plenty of arguments in the past in other threads. All you do is dismiss them and simply rehash the same Timmy-myths over and over again. I think your bias for Duncan is actually than worse than my bias for Kobe. Also, I think you and Chuck have been shaping the crazy Timmy-loving narrative here for years. It is why the RealGM PC board is the only place that considers him a Top 5 All-Time.

[No-more-rings]

I’d rather have Kobe though i’m not sure how i’d make a strong case for it.

[Dutchball97]

Just admit the Suns and Nash had the Spurs and Duncan beat. I can't think of another reason why a team would have a player of theirs injure the best player on another team, unless they are desperate. Robery Horry did not do something like this while on the Lakers or Rockets. Isn't it strange how he did it after joining the Spurs, the same team who also employed Bowen, and had Bowen constantly trying to injure the other team's best guard/wing (like Kobe)? Also, Duncan didn't even finish Top 3 in the MVP votes. Not in 2004-05, not in 2005-06, not in 2006-07.

It would also be nice if you could admit Kobe was the better player in 2006-07. Thanks.

It was 2-2 after 4 games and the spurs were better on the road in this matchup.Just look at the 2005 WCF.

On one hand, you pretend to be reasonable... then on the other hand, you say something as biased as this.

1) The Suns were a much improved and stronger team in 2006-07 compared to 2004-05.

2) Game 4 ended with the momentum completely in the Suns favor.

3) Game 5 was a Home game for the Suns. They would've won it if they had Amar'e and Diaw. They only lost Game 5 by 3 points even without them.

4) The Game 5 loss deflated the Suns and gave impetus to the Spurs for Game 6 at San Antonio. If Phoenix wins Game 5 as they should have, the Spurs and Duncan were not great at come-backs and likely lose Game 6 from the pressure. Game 7 would have been a Home game for the Suns too.

I'm just wondering since I don't think I've seen you mention it but do you feel the same way about the 2002 WCF? They're not exactly equal situations but still it's a series many people regard as controversial at the least. If this were the case would it similarly impact the value of Kobe and Shaq that year?

As to Kobe vs Duncan in 2007 it just seems too be too close statistically to confidentally say either of them is 'clearly' the more impactful player that year. Looking at the boxscore stats they have the exact same PER of 26.1, both had exactly 13 WS and a 0.1 difference in their VORP (6.2 for Duncan and 6.1 for Kobe). Looking at how they were viewed by the media at the time you'll see both making 1st team All-NBA with Kobe 3rd in MVP voting and Duncan right behind him at 4th. Duncan does have an edge in impact stats as his PI RAPM is 7.02 compared to Kobe's 4.66. Duncan is also ahead in NPI RAPM by a margin of 4.38 to 2.63. This is all regular season though, in the play-offs Duncan takes a bit more of a lead in the boxscore stats but Kobe has a better NPI RAPM. Everything here is comparable enough to me that I don't really understand the absolutism from either side on this topic.

[70sFan]

Just admit the Suns and Nash had the Spurs and Duncan beat. I can't think of another reason why a team would have a player of theirs injure the best player on another team, unless they are desperate. Robery Horry did not do something like this while on the Lakers or Rockets. Isn't it strange how he did it after joining the Spurs, the same team who also employed Bowen, and had Bowen constantly trying to injure the other team's best guard/wing (like Kobe)? Also, Duncan didn't even finish Top 3 in the MVP votes. Not in 2004-05, not in 2005-06, not in 2006-07.

It would also be nice if you could admit Kobe was the better player in 2006-07. Thanks.

I won't admit any of these, because I don't agree with you. I don't see any reason why I should, you present no arguments here outside of your opinions.

Lol, these are not my opinions.... everything in this post you replied to is a frikkin' FACT!!

1) Did Horry try to injure a best player on another team when he was on Lakers/Rockets? No
2) Did Bruce Bowen also try to injure the best players on other teams? Yes
3) Which team did both of these play for when they did the dirty deeds? The Spurs
4) Did Steve Nash have his team running circles around the Spurs in Game 4? Yes
5) What happened next? The Spurs took out Steve Nash. Check
6) Duncan was not in Top 3 of MVP votes for those seasons. Check

All FACTS! Including that Kobe was better than Duncan.

Also, do you think you are not pushing your own opinion here too? I've provided plenty of arguments in the past in other threads. All you do is dismiss them and simply rehash the same Timmy-myths over and over again. I think your bias for Duncan is actually than worse than my bias for Kobe. Also, I think you and Chuck have been shaping the crazy Timmy-loving narrative here for years. It is why the RealGM PC board is the only place that considers him a Top 5 All-Time.

I'm done with you, I don't have the patience to discuss with someone accusing me of creating myths and forcing false narratives. If you don't like PC Board and feel we all have no clue about basketball, why are you here? I can say with 100% confidence that we will live without your deep analyses and well thoughts takes.

[Jaivl]

I am not able to separate that much - they are tied for me.

[LAL1947]

I won't admit any of these, because I don't agree with you. I don't see any reason why I should, you present no arguments here outside of your opinions.

Lol, these are not my opinions.... everything in this post you replied to is a frikkin' FACT!!

1) Did Horry try to injure a best player on another team when he was on Lakers/Rockets? No
2) Did Bruce Bowen also try to injure the best players on other teams? Yes
3) Which team did both of these play for when they did the dirty deeds? The Spurs
4) Did Steve Nash have his team running circles around the Spurs in Game 4? Yes
5) What happened next? The Spurs took out Steve Nash. Check
6) Duncan was not in Top 3 of MVP votes for those seasons. Check

All FACTS! Including that Kobe was better than Duncan.

Also, do you think you are not pushing your own opinion here too? I've provided plenty of arguments in the past in other threads. All you do is dismiss them and simply rehash the same Timmy-myths over and over again. I think your bias for Duncan is actually than worse than my bias for Kobe. Also, I think you and Chuck have been shaping the crazy Timmy-loving narrative here for years. It is why the RealGM PC board is the only place that considers him a Top 5 All-Time.

I'm done with you, I don't have the patience to discuss with someone accusing me of creating myths and forcing false narratives. If you don't like PC Board and feel we all have no clue about basketball, why are you here? I can say with 100% confidence that we will live without your deep analyses and well thoughts takes.

I didn't ask you to engage me in conversation. Stop quoting me, post your opinion to the OP and move along.

[ceiling raiser]

I’m not a Duncan fan (don’t dislike him and also don’t think he was boring - just always preferred KG playstyle wise) but I feel like he has a better case for GOAT than for being outside of the top 5 or 10. Shrugs.