[Jake Fisher] The word surrounding OG Anunoby’s trade candidacy

[LBJKB24MJ23]

what in the world are you talking about? what is everyone yapping about with this stuff about OG's role diminishing.

Here are some facts:

Raptors Regular season USG% last year:

1. Pascal (25.8)
2. FVV (23.7)
3. GTj (21.8)
4. OG (20.5)
5. Scottie (19)

Raptors playoff USG last year:

1. Pascal (24.2)
2. GTj (21.8)
3. OG (21.2)

Raptors FGA reg season last year:

1. pascal (17.8)
2. fred (16.9)
3. GTj (15.5)
4. OG (14.5)

Raptors FGA playoffs last year:

1. pascal (17.8)
2. OG (13.7)
3. GTj (13.7)
4. fvv (13.5)
5. Scottie (10.5)

OG FGA reg season career

2017 4.7
2018 6.0
2019 8.2
2020 12.1
2021 14.5

and as for his touches decreasing throughout the year yeah well guess what we started th season without our All-NBA #1 offensive option and OG stepped up and showed he could produce as many of us expected he would. And then Pascal came back and his touches went down. Big whoop. big surprise.

But somehow despite the steady increase in his FGA and USG year over year, and just because the other 3 top scorers on the team get a measly 1 more fGA per game (GTj) or 2 (FVV) or 3 (pascal) in the regular season (but not in the playoffs where he was tied for #2 USG) that out of all that you somehow conclude that his role is diminishing and that he is unhappy because what - he wants to be a 1st option on a sh&tty team instead of a major offensive role on a highly balanced team that is going to be a contender next year? all based on an article that ADMITTED it had no evidence whatsoever for this invented unhappiness and that it was pure conjecture? and this is worth 50 pages as other media hacks riff with more BS on that original BS article?

like wtf?

moreso his role down the stretch of the season and can see where he will end up on the heirarchy of things. its obvious Barnes will now have more of the ball in his hands moving forward. you and i can tell this will be Barnes team moving forward. even if OG was the "third" option going into the season this season, Barnes has already supplanted him because of his ball handing and decision making.

don't need a genius to tell you that your role is going to be diminishing once a higher ceiling playing comes into the system.

OG was injured at the end of season too. so a jump before the playoffs is not surprising. also, what were the quality of touches. FVV got injured and Siakam and Barnes bore of the ball handling duties down the stretch where the ball was moving more (eye test i guess)

additionally, just listening to the podcast, OG would want a bigger contract and more of expanded role. can't do that even if his touches are increasing marginally.

[Madhouse]

moreso his role down the stretch of the season and can see where he will end up on the heirarchy of things. its obvious Barnes will now have more of the ball in his hands moving forward. you and i can tell this will be Barnes team moving forward. even if OG was the "third" option going into the season this season, Barnes has already supplanted him because of his ball handing and decision making.

don't need a genius to tell you that your role is going to be diminishing once a higher ceiling playing comes into the system.

OG was injured at the end of season too. so a jump before the playoffs is not surprising. also, what were the quality of touches. FVV got injured and Siakam and Barnes bore of the ball handling duties down the stretch where the ball was moving more (eye test i guess)

additionally, just listening to the podcast, OG would want a bigger contract and more of expanded role. can't do that even if his touches are increasing marginally.

no, I mean the lack of touches for OG could be a problem, that's what this graphic is supposed to show lol. But yes, I'm not a fan of this touches stat because it really lacks perspective.

[Federalies]

First of all, I want to make it clear I don’t think the Raps trade OG or that they’re actively shopping him. I’m also not sold on OG being “unhappy” with his role other than the general “I think I can do more and it sucks that I got injured and couldn’t prove it”!

That said, if we’re playing the “what if” game then here’s my pitch for a run at the kings #4 pick. Assuming all the chatter has other teams Front Offices giddy with the possibility of an OG type player being available (size+length+defence + potent and potentially expanding offence+ contract value and length+ age), we’d also have to assume the Kings (desperate for a playoff appearance, already locked into a win now plan when they traded for Sabonis) would be one of those teams!

While I’m not sure OG gets you #4 on his own, perhaps an OG + GTJ (both Klutch players) for Harrison Barnes + Holmes + #4 + future stuff (protected future 1st rd pick) does?

The Kings get 2 young starters who fill needs, play D and shoot 3’s on decent contracts while TO gets #4 and 2 players who start on most teams but would be likely backup/spot starters on the Raps.

Assuming the Raps take Ivey or Sharpe at 4 and another wing (say Wendell Moore) at #33, you’d have an interesting and potentially exciting team.

FVV/Flynn/Banton/MLE
Ivey or Sharpe/Moore (or another wing prospect)/Svi
Scottie/H Barnes/Justin Champagnie
Pascal/Boucher and or Thad/Yuta on the min
Precious/Holmes/Birch/MLE (i.e. Bamba)

[HumbleRen]

I would be shocked if Kuminga turned into half the player OG is. Definitely has the tools, but just don't see him becoming an all-defence talent.

Will probably never be the defender that OG is but he will be a positive defender and OG won't be half the player Kuminga is on offence due to Kuminga's athleticism.



October - November

3 PPG
2 RPG
0.4 Steals + Blocks
47 True Shooting %

December

8 PPG
1 RPG
0.4 Steals + Blocks
63 True Shooting %

January

9 PPG
4 RPG
0.7 Steals + Blocks
56 True Shooting %

Since All Star Break

12 PPG
4 RPG
1.2 Steals + Blocks
67 True Shooting %
In 22 Minutes per game.

Why do you think he would be a positive defender? There is nothing to really suggest he can even be an average one. He lacks defensive awareness and IQ and has terribly low steal and block rates. In fact, he went half a month without recording a single block or steal. That's not a typo.

And you need to check your numbers...again. LOL. Kuminga had a 61% TS% after the all-star break not 67%. And it's also irrelevant because he was still an awful offensive player this year. His crafted OPM was -0.96 and his crafted DPM was even worse at -1.03.

And athleticism doesn't lead to great offensive ability. Skills and IQ do. Athleticism on top of skills and IQ is obviously a huge bonus but without those first two attributes you're just an athlete. Similar to OG in his rookie season, the majority of Kuminga's made baskets were assisted including 100% of his threes according to Cleaning the Glass. Kuminga shot 73% at the rim and was basically terrible outside of it.

Can Kuminga develop into a great player in this league? Yes, he can. Is it likely? No, it's not. Players with his flaws are always going to face an uphill battle in this league.

There's no real reasons to write him off though or say he probably won't become half the player that OG is when he's literally a year younger than everyone in his draft class. He has the tools to become a positive defender, especially within our system.

You can't teach fluidness within an athlete, I trust in his ability and our coaching staff to instill winning basketball in him, he's already made big strides this year on the Warriors.

[Los_29]

Will probably never be the defender that OG is but he will be a positive defender and OG won't be half the player Kuminga is on offence due to Kuminga's athleticism.



October - November

3 PPG
2 RPG
0.4 Steals + Blocks
47 True Shooting %

December

8 PPG
1 RPG
0.4 Steals + Blocks
63 True Shooting %

January

9 PPG
4 RPG
0.7 Steals + Blocks
56 True Shooting %

Since All Star Break

12 PPG
4 RPG
1.2 Steals + Blocks
67 True Shooting %
In 22 Minutes per game.

Why do you think he would be a positive defender? There is nothing to really suggest he can even be an average one. He lacks defensive awareness and IQ and has terribly low steal and block rates. In fact, he went half a month without recording a single block or steal. That's not a typo.

And you need to check your numbers...again. LOL. Kuminga had a 61% TS% after the all-star break not 67%. And it's also irrelevant because he was still an awful offensive player this year. His crafted OPM was -0.96 and his crafted DPM was even worse at -1.03.

And athleticism doesn't lead to great offensive ability. Skills and IQ do. Athleticism on top of skills and IQ is obviously a huge bonus but without those first two attributes you're just an athlete. Similar to OG in his rookie season, the majority of Kuminga's made baskets were assisted including 100% of his threes according to Cleaning the Glass. Kuminga shot 73% at the rim and was basically terrible outside of it.

Can Kuminga develop into a great player in this league? Yes, he can. Is it likely? No, it's not. Players with his flaws are always going to face an uphill battle in this league.

There's no real reasons to write him off though or say he probably won't become half the player that OG is when he's literally a year younger than everyone in his draft class. He has the tools to become a positive defender, especially within our system.

You can't teach fluidness within an athlete, I trust in his ability and our coaching staff to instill winning basketball in him, he's already made big strides this year on the Warriors.

Athleticism alone doesn't make you a good defender. What Kuminga is bad at are things that are very hard to improve upon i.e. basketball IQ, feel for the game. The fact he also is so bad at generating blocks/steals/deflections also doesn't bode well for his defensive upside.

And offensively, he's a terrible passer (worse than OG in his rookie season) and a poor shooter.

[HumbleRen]

Why do you think he would be a positive defender? There is nothing to really suggest he can even be an average one. He lacks defensive awareness and IQ and has terribly low steal and block rates. In fact, he went half a month without recording a single block or steal. That's not a typo.

And you need to check your numbers...again. LOL. Kuminga had a 61% TS% after the all-star break not 67%. And it's also irrelevant because he was still an awful offensive player this year. His crafted OPM was -0.96 and his crafted DPM was even worse at -1.03.

And athleticism doesn't lead to great offensive ability. Skills and IQ do. Athleticism on top of skills and IQ is obviously a huge bonus but without those first two attributes you're just an athlete. Similar to OG in his rookie season, the majority of Kuminga's made baskets were assisted including 100% of his threes according to Cleaning the Glass. Kuminga shot 73% at the rim and was basically terrible outside of it.

Can Kuminga develop into a great player in this league? Yes, he can. Is it likely? No, it's not. Players with his flaws are always going to face an uphill battle in this league.

There's no real reasons to write him off though or say he probably won't become half the player that OG is when he's literally a year younger than everyone in his draft class. He has the tools to become a positive defender, especially within our system.

You can't teach fluidness within an athlete, I trust in his ability and our coaching staff to instill winning basketball in him, he's already made big strides this year on the Warriors.

Athleticism alone doesn't make you a good defender. What Kuminga is bad at are things that are very hard to improve upon i.e. basketball IQ, feel for the game. The fact he also is so bad at generating blocks/steals/deflections also doesn't bode well for his defensive upside.

And offensively, he's a terrible passer (worse than OG in his rookie season) and a poor shooter.

All those things could of been applied to Precious last year. I'm not in the business of writing off 19 year olds in their first year lol.

[goinrogue]

I feel like it’s super obvious either Fred or Gary is the one who should be traded of the top six. Fred has the most trade value. He’s coming off an all-star season and we drafted a point guard who plays the same position as him. I don’t hate Fred, but sell high. Scottie considers himself a PG and played the position when Fred was out - magic Barnes!
OG Is a 3+D who guards every position. Of course every team in the league is going to want him on his reasonable contract.

[Los_29]

There's no real reasons to write him off though or say he probably won't become half the player that OG is when he's literally a year younger than everyone in his draft class. He has the tools to become a positive defender, especially within our system.

You can't teach fluidness within an athlete, I trust in his ability and our coaching staff to instill winning basketball in him, he's already made big strides this year on the Warriors.

Athleticism alone doesn't make you a good defender. What Kuminga is bad at are things that are very hard to improve upon i.e. basketball IQ, feel for the game. The fact he also is so bad at generating blocks/steals/deflections also doesn't bode well for his defensive upside.

And offensively, he's a terrible passer (worse than OG in his rookie season) and a poor shooter.

All those things could of been applied to Precious last year. I'm not in the business of writing off 19 year olds in their first year lol.

We aren’t writing him off though, we are discussing whether or not we should trade an elite, versatile defender and fringe all-star on a great contract for him.

[NinjaBro]

OG can CAPABLY guard/switch 1-5 at a good level and also shoot 3s at an efficient clip.

He's also 24 (going on 25-years-old) which means he's entering the prime of his career and there's clearly more levels of development left in his game.

He's on a great contract.

Oh and he's also playoff proven.

I wonder why teams would want him?

Right. There’s a decent chance he ends up more impactful than Pascal, and teams can see it coming.

My guess is that this is just truly teams trying to drive his value down and stir up controversy that isn’t there.

The numbers and eye test both backup the fact that we’ve asked him to increase his role each year and Nick’s messaging publicly is that OG needs to do more. You think with the rapport that Masai has with these guys, that OG would really go to the media with something like this? I doubt it. He’s going to Masai. The only logical part about it is that there may be some concern from OG’s camp (Fischer, importantly, notes this as other franchise executive speculation) that his touches will go down with Scottie’s development. Someone in the pecking order is going to lose touches, and with OG being as young as he is, he’s going to have a potentially max deal to be playing for. That’s a legitimate concern. But it’s on Nick and Masai to figure that out and manage it. If we can get Kawhi to buy in with all the other personalities on that roster, I don’t doubt we can find a way to make this work. It’s probably a bit of a weird situation, though, because Fred and Pascal don’t strike me as guys who will willingly give up shots.

At the end of the day, I don’t see them moving him. I think they would rightfully move FVV or Pascal before they moved OG.

I love OG and don't want him traded unless for a huge overpay. That said I don't see it how he can be more effective than Pascal. He's too clumsy, his handles need a lot of work. Pascal has made allstar and all nba twice now. Only covid derailed his season but even then he led the raptors to the 2nd best seed in the entire league as the number one option. Feels like Pascal is very underrated here even by our own fans.

[bluerap23]

Athleticism alone doesn't make you a good defender. What Kuminga is bad at are things that are very hard to improve upon i.e. basketball IQ, feel for the game. The fact he also is so bad at generating blocks/steals/deflections also doesn't bode well for his defensive upside.

And offensively, he's a terrible passer (worse than OG in his rookie season) and a poor shooter.

All those things could of been applied to Precious last year. I'm not in the business of writing off 19 year olds in their first year lol.

We aren’t writing him off though, we are discussing whether or not we should trade an elite, versatile defender and fringe all-star on a great contract for him.

There is literally zero chance we would trade OG for Kuminga

[Psubs]

I feel like it’s super obvious either Fred or Gary is the one who should be traded of the top six. Fred has the most trade value. He’s coming off an all-star season and we drafted a point guard who plays the same position as him. I don’t hate Fred, but sell high. Scottie considers himself a PG and played the position when Fred was out - magic Barnes!
OG Is a 3+D who guards every position. Of course every team in the league is going to want him on his reasonable contract.

Trade OG for #4 (Ivey) and Holiday

Trade FVV and #33 for #5 (Sharpe) and CoJo

Package (Flynn, Holiday, Svi (waive) and Birch for S&T Nurkic)

PG CoJo/Banton/Ivey
SG Trent - Harris/Sharpe
SF Barnes - Champagnie/Banton
PF Siakam - Thadd - Boucher
C Precious/Nurkic - Boucher

[Psubs]

All those things could of been applied to Precious last year. I'm not in the business of writing off 19 year olds in their first year lol.

We aren’t writing him off though, we are discussing whether or not we should trade an elite, versatile defender and fringe all-star on a great contract for him.

There is literally zero chance we would trade OG for Kuminga

What about Siakam, Flynn and Svi for Wiggins, Kuminga, Wiseman, 2023 1st pick and 2025 1st pick?

PG FVV - Banton - Harris
SG Trent/Wiggins - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

Then at the deadline trade FVV, Wiggins and many many 1st picks for Beal?

PG Beal - Banton - Harris
SG Trent - Beal - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

[lobosloboslobos]

What about Siakam, Flynn and Svi for Wiggins, Kuminga, Wiseman, 2023 1st pick and 2025 1st pick?

PG FVV - Banton - Harris
SG Trent/Wiggins - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

Then at the deadline trade FVV, Wiggins and many many 1st picks for Beal?

PG Beal - Banton - Harris
SG Trent - Beal - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

did you mean to post this in the 'Trades I made up on bath salts' thread?

[Madhouse]

We aren’t writing him off though, we are discussing whether or not we should trade an elite, versatile defender and fringe all-star on a great contract for him.

There is literally zero chance we would trade OG for Kuminga

What about Siakam, Flynn and Svi for Wiggins, Kuminga, Wiseman, 2023 1st pick and 2025 1st pick?

PG FVV - Banton - Harris
SG Trent/Wiggins - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

Then at the deadline trade FVV, Wiggins and many many 1st picks for Beal?

PG Beal - Banton - Harris
SG Trent - Beal - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

Beal isn't that good.

[no dice]

We aren’t writing him off though, we are discussing whether or not we should trade an elite, versatile defender and fringe all-star on a great contract for him.

There is literally zero chance we would trade OG for Kuminga

What about Siakam, Flynn and Svi for Wiggins, Kuminga, Wiseman, 2023 1st pick and 2025 1st pick?

PG FVV - Banton - Harris
SG Trent/Wiggins - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

Then at the deadline trade FVV, Wiggins and many many 1st picks for Beal?

PG Beal - Banton - Harris
SG Trent - Beal - #33
SF OG - Kuminga/Champagnie
PF Barnes - Thadd - Kuminga
C Precious - Wiseman

This ain 2k man.

[KenoP13]

The season started with OG having completely free reign on offense. Pascal was on the trade market. It ended with Pascal being our primary scorer and OG playing primarily off ball.

OG will want to maximize his talent and future contract. I can see being unsatisfied in a year. His contract will eventually end in two years.

[Asif16]

Would you guys do Kuminga + Wiseman for OG?

[Los_29]

Would you guys do Kuminga + Wiseman for OG?

In my opinion there is just way too much risk. Don't think Wiseman is a modern day big even if he reaches his potential (which I don't think is high) and Kuminga is just so raw. Even if he reaches his ceiling (which will be difficult), it's hard to see him as being a much better player than OG.

Another concern is his age. A few scouts mentioned this last year.

He was born in Democratic Republic of Congo where only 25% of kids are born with birth certificates, and didn’t move to America until 2016 when he should have received advice to lie about his age to maximize his odds of an NBA future.

And there is a HUGE difference between 18 vs 19 vs 20, especially for a kid like Kuminga who you are betting on to make a major leap in skill level. So if he is 18, it is completely reasonable to take him in the #5-7 range as he is currently projected. But if he is 19, he takes a hit to his stock and perhaps belongs in the mid-1st. And if he is 20, he likely belongs in round 2. And if he is 21+, then he arguably does not deserve to be drafted.

If Kuminga had more in his bag, it's probably a risk worth taking but given his weaknesses a type of trade like this can set this franchise back years if it doesn't pan out.

[tdotrep2]

Would you guys do Kuminga + Wiseman for OG?

throw in moody

[HumbleRen]

That trade isn't happening for both sides. Kuminga is their future. Masai wants to win now with Pascal and FVV so he definitely isn't trading OG for a 19 year old.

If it was up to me ? I'd probably do that trade if it included Wiseman and Moody but it'll never happen lol.