Doctor MJ wrote:falcolombardi wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:I asked a question, did you answer?
I understand that Curry has much better defensive teammates, so go ahead, normalize for that, and then please do tell me how you're making a best-in-league level playoff bulletproof defense with Jokic. I'm not asking this cynically - I want nothing more than for Jokic to run off a dynasty - but I have concerns.
doc, i think you may be looking at this from the wrong angle
centers, almost all of them, are vulnerable on the perimeter in the modern game yet we dont see center-less ball taking off (rip tucker ball, you died too soon 2020-2020)
is because even adjusted to their perimeter weakness, teams still need centers for rim protection and rebounding more, there is a reason why centers are still seen as the mpst importan defensive position
jokic doesnt need to be less of a perimeter vulnerability than curry, just like curry doesnt need to be as goof of a rebouding and rim protector as a center
mpst guards, including curry are as much of a "defensive weakness" in modern game as centers, even more so as wings usually can defend guards bettee than they can defend the paint imo,
but we dont see center and guard less all-wing lineups do we? (except for the wacky raptors, god bless them)
if you think jokic is a below average center in defense and curry is above average for a guard then sure
but if you are saying jokic is a worse defender thsn curry cause he is a perimeter vulnerability, that would be like saying curry is worse defender than jokic cause he is a rim protecting vulneeability
guards can be put in situations where their lack of size is a weakness (mainly in the paint) and centers lack of mobility too (in the outside) but of the two centers remaim a fair bit more important
neither jokic is a outlier center who can lock down the perimerer nor is curry a outlier guard who can defend the paint and comtrol the rebounds against bigs
I'm not talking about perimeter vulnerability, I'm talking about vulnerability period.
If you can be targeted effectively, by some way, shape, or form, that's a vulnerability. Then the question becomes how well the opponent can expect to exploit that.
If I can create an elite defense with Curry, but I cannot with Jokic, then to me that's a major edge for Curry.
If anyone disagrees with that, then I think they should elaborate on how they think that can be done.
I agree on jokic being more exploitable and that him being a good defender in the RS turns into him being a pretty bad one in the playoffs
I don’t really think the Warriors defense has shown itself to be super elite these playoffs before in a similar way, in the same way it was the regular season, on an individual series by series basis only based upon the results so far, they had a good defensive series against memphis, more bleh against the nuggets and Mavericks, and against Boston have had 2 great and 2 horrible defensive games
Context matters, they held up fairly well during Jokic minutes they just got killed outside of those in terms of their def rtg (noise), and the Celtics went supernova at the end of game 1, but I think the Warriors defense hasn’t been like super elite these playoffs either
That being said I do think in general Jokic is more exploitable than Curry, in most situations and against most teams because spaced out pick and roll is kind of the modern auto pilot for a lot of the teams on offense
In terms of POY, one thing that isn’t brought up much is the Warriors offense this playoffs.
It’s more complicated than “this offensive cast has shown to be bottom tier and They’re doing great in the playoffs”
But I do think it’s worth noting that the playoff offense has been pretty much, outside of the grizzlies series, has been pretty much a top of the league type especially considering the defenses they have faced.
Especially if you value the postseason heavily, if Curry basically takes a cast that probably is a bottom 5 offense without him and in 3/4 series they have ATG levels of offensive production, particularly with him on the floor, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give him the nod. Especially if he continues a historic performance against a Celtics defense that successfully to a large extent clamped up Durant and Giannis. (Playoff butler built different)
Another way to look at it.
2016 Curry is great, but his playoff performance is a pretty large blot. Would 2022 Curry, as a season, be better than that if he continues his finals performance?
An underwhelming regular season vs a strong WCF run and his best finals by far, or his best RS by far and a decent WCF run when healthy and his worst finals by far
I don’t think that’s a crazy take, and I think Curry that RS was probably the best offensive season of all time in an outlier type of way
I also think when evaluating seasons we should do so under the context of that season.
While I’m not against celebrating great regular seasons, the regular season for players that win (this is of course only if the warriors win) should not be held against them if they won despite lower seeding or something like that
