Official Liverpool FC Thread II

SgtPepper · Post #161 » by **SgtPepper** » Sat May 28, 2022 10:37 pm

Eh TAA along with Thiago are the most important playmakers for Liverpool especially when the opposition is bunkered. I don't think he can be blamed for this game considering he had the hardest defensive assignment when there's much worse performers like Keita, Dijk, Salah.

Title count aside, this and last season have been quite good for improving the long-term value of the squad. Konate, Jota, Diaz, Matip development make the starting lineup of forwards and defenders pretty fungible.

There's one tactical weakness that's part of Jurgen Klopp's systems that Liverpool has consistently suffered from - building play from a press resistant midfield. The consequence of this is that Spanish sides which are toothless like the Atleti of the past 2 seasons or the current VIllareal who can outplay them only in midfield then make a whole game strategy around taking control of the game from there at select times to engineer a few chances that decide the tie. If German football is about the counterpress, Spanish football is about combination play (give and go's where 2-3 teammates attack/progress via particular empty spaces).

That's not quite what happened in the CL final, but the fact Madrid's press-resistant core (Modric, Alaba, Militao, Benzema, formerly Marcelo and Ramos too) were not isolated by counterpress left breathing room for those players to change the tempo and play progression.

Post #162 » by **Cactus Jack** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:04 pm

SgtPepper wrote:Eh TAA along with Thiago are the most important playmakers for Liverpool especially when the opposition is bunkered. I don't think he can be blamed for this game considering he had the hardest defensive assignment when there's much worse performers like Keita, Dijk, Salah.

Title count aside, this and last season have been quite good for improving the long-term value of the squad. Konate, Jota, Diaz, Matip development make the starting lineup of forwards and defenders pretty fungible.

There's one tactical weakness that's part of Jurgen Klopp's systems that Liverpool has consistently suffered from - building play from a press resistant midfield. The consequence of this is that Spanish sides which are toothless like the Atleti of the past 2 seasons or the current VIllareal who can outplay them only in midfield then make a whole game strategy around taking control of the game from there at select times to engineer a few chances that decide the tie. If German football is about the counterpress, Spanish football is about combination play (give and go's where 2-3 teammates attack/progress via particular empty spaces).

That's not quite what happened in the CL final, but the fact Madrid's press-resistant core (Modric, Alaba, Militao, Benzema, formerly Marcelo and Ramos too) were not isolated by counterpress left breathing room for those players to change the tempo and play progression.

Keita was a late sub.

VVD certainly didn't have his best game. Salah & the front three we're held in check for the most part. Credit to Madrid. The shots they did have on target we're cleaned up by Courtois. He had a game.

TAA was caught watching on the goal. But he has a reputation for that. He often is careless & will be out of position or not marking his man. There we're numerous times throughout the game when he would make a poor pass that would give away possession. Which would also lead to counter opportunities. This is nothing new. It's one aspect to his game that is frustrating.

Foye · Post #163 » by **Foye** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:09 pm

Cactus Jack wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:Eh TAA along with Thiago are the most important playmakers for Liverpool especially when the opposition is bunkered. I don't think he can be blamed for this game considering he had the hardest defensive assignment when there's much worse performers like Keita, Dijk, Salah.

Title count aside, this and last season have been quite good for improving the long-term value of the squad. Konate, Jota, Diaz, Matip development make the starting lineup of forwards and defenders pretty fungible.

There's one tactical weakness that's part of Jurgen Klopp's systems that Liverpool has consistently suffered from - building play from a press resistant midfield. The consequence of this is that Spanish sides which are toothless like the Atleti of the past 2 seasons or the current VIllareal who can outplay them only in midfield then make a whole game strategy around taking control of the game from there at select times to engineer a few chances that decide the tie. If German football is about the counterpress, Spanish football is about combination play (give and go's where 2-3 teammates attack/progress via particular empty spaces).

That's not quite what happened in the CL final, but the fact Madrid's press-resistant core (Modric, Alaba, Militao, Benzema, formerly Marcelo and Ramos too) were not isolated by counterpress left breathing room for those players to change the tempo and play progression.

Keita was a late sub.

VVD certainly didn't have his best game. Salah & the front three we're held in check for the most part. Credit to Madrid. The shots they did have on target we're cleaned up by Courtois. He had a game.

TAA was caught watching on the goal. But he has a reputation for that. He often is careless & will be out of position or not marking his man. There we're numerous times throughout the game when he would make a poor pass that would give away possession. Which would also lead to counter opportunities. It's one aspect to his game that is frustrating.

Arnold had so many chances to deliver anything, he just wasn’t mentally ready for the game.

Post #164 » by **Cactus Jack** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:13 pm

Foye wrote:Arnold had so many chances to deliver anything, he just wasn’t mentally ready for the game.

He had to play well for Liverpool to win. He didn't.

SgtPepper · Post #165 » by **SgtPepper** » Sat May 28, 2022 11:35 pm

This will be my last response on this issue because long discussions in these sort of situations often amount to trolling.
This is the crux of the problem:

Cactus Jack wrote:Salah & the front three we're held in check for the most part. The shots they did have on target were cleaned up by Courtois. He had a game.

This is something TAA has little to no influence over. If anything, Klopp could have changed tactics so Mane became a winger to bully Carvajal better. Mane destroyed Carva in 2018 till Carva was subbed off in injury.

Also why isn't the same standard applied to uncreative starters like Robertson, Hendo? that play began when Modric ran deep to free Valverde from Diaz & Robertson and then delivered a reverse thru ball to Valverde.

TAA was hedging between blocking the Valverde far post open shot and the pass to Vinicius; it wasn't goal watching. Trent had 60+% of the goalmouth to guard because the gk and centerbacks pressed so far high into the left corner.

Post #166 » by **Cactus Jack** » Sun May 29, 2022 12:22 am

Maybe I'm being too hard on him. But that's just how I see it. No one should get a pass.

danfantastk32 · Post #167 » by **danfantastk32** » Wed Jun 1, 2022 4:01 pm

Well it looks like Mane will be moving on. Apparently Bayern and he have agreed. I guess Liverpool have set a $42m asking price.

www.si.com/soccer/liverpool/transfers

Wow, the last couple weeks just get worse. I'd much rather lose Salah, than Mane. Hell.....we might lose both.

danfantastk32 · Post #168 » by **danfantastk32** » Tue Jun 7, 2022 6:34 am

Small victory.....but we resigned Milner. I like him. He's past it....but he's probably the closest thing to "old school" we got. Teams need a guy or two from that mold.

HIF · Post #169 » by **HIF** » Tue Jun 7, 2022 7:54 am

danfantastk32 wrote:Small victory.....but we resigned Milner. I like him. He's past it....but he's probably the closest thing to "old school" we got. Teams need a guy or two from that mold.

He's Liverpool's Marc Albrighton. :wink:

danfantastk32 · Post #170 » by **danfantastk32** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:02 pm

$100 mil for Nunez? I don't know too much about the guy. Several teams are interested, so he must be decent. He's got a motor, and will prob fit in nicely. But jeez....$100mil?!! Sounds like Mane is all but out the door. Really a shame. I'd love to keep him, and move Salah. Truth is...for a signing like this, I would steel myself to hear both are leaving.

Well, I did say I wanted to get younger. I'd like to see a midfielder, and a defender come on. We need a replacement for Matip, IMO. He's not bad....just not great.

Hopefully Nunez backs up that price-tag. Hate to have that amount of pressure heaped on a 23-24 year old..but this is modern sports. More youth is a good thing though, and Klopp seems to know what the hell he's doing. So I'm excited.

Baseline81 · Post #171 » by **Baseline81** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:06 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:$100 mil for Nunez? I don't know too much about the guy. Several teams are interested, so he must be decent. He's got a motor, and will prob fit in nicely. But jeez....$100mil?!! Sounds like Mane is all but out the door. Really a shame. I'd love to keep him, and move Salah. Truth is...for a signing like this, I would steel myself to hear both are leaving.

Well, I did say I wanted to get younger. I'd like to see a midfielder, and a defender come on. We need a replacement for Matip, IMO. He's not bad....just not great.

Hopefully Nunez backs up that price-tag. Hate to have that amount of pressure heaped on a 23-24 year old..but this is modern sports. More youth is a good thing though, and Klopp seems to know what the hell he's doing. So I'm excited.

Mark Goldbridge of the United Stand:

Read on Twitter

danfantastk32 · Post #172 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:29 am

Baseline81 wrote:Mark Goldbridge of the United Stand:

Read on Twitter

Nice....hope he's right. And that he remains at Liverpool for a while.

Post #173 » by **Baphomet** » Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:25 pm

Baseline81 wrote:Mark Goldbridge of the United Stand:

Read on Twitter

As much as I enjoy Goldbridge, especially during United meltdowns, he isn't known for the accuracy of his takes.

I mean, he could easily be right, but you have to fancy any forward going to Liverpool's current setup where they create chances galore.

Baseline81 · Post #174 » by **Baseline81** » Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:23 pm

Baphomet wrote:As much as I enjoy Goldbridge, especially during United meltdowns, he isn't known for the accuracy of his takes.

I mean, he could easily be right, but you have to fancy any forward going to Liverpool's current setup where they create chances galore.

Despite being a Manchester United fan, I find his takes to be unbias when it concerns players and transfers of other clubs. When Núñez was being linked to the Red Devils, their fans were elated, but as soon as Liverpool signed him, those same fans turned and began calling him the Uruguayan Andy Carroll.

Post #175 » by **Baphomet** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:05 pm

Baseline81 wrote:Despite being a Manchester United fan, I find his takes to be unbias when it concerns players and transfers of other clubs. When Núñez was being linked to the Red Devils, their fans were elated, but as soon as Liverpool signed him, those same fans turned and began calling him the Uruguayan Andy Carroll.

I agree, I think he is pretty fair and unbiased too. However, there's a proclivity for older/savvier United fans like Goldbridge to hoist Ten Hag up as a messianic figure and anything he says or does is treated as absolute truth at the moment, given that he alone represents hope at the club after a dismal few years. If Ten Hag wants Nunez, he must be an absolute monster. If Ten Hag wants to get rid of say, I don't know, Bruno, he must be right. It's the only hope they realistically have, given what an absolute disaster both the business and footballing sides of Man United have been in recent years. Spurs fans have gone through the same thing with Conte but the proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

There's also a psychological element of United fans licking their wounds when it comes to their own sorry state and the success of their most hated rivals, especially when it pertains to market activity.

Having said that, you're absolutely right that football fans are fickle, although those are typically younger fans on social media. One day United are signing the next great striker in Darwin Nunez, the next day Liverpool have signed him and now Darwin's a twat and they no longer believe in evolution and have become young earth creationists.

Personally I think he will be excellent as Liverpool's recruitment is typically outstanding, but I haven't seen enough of him to really give a strong opinion either way.

SgtPepper · Post #176 » by **SgtPepper** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:02 am

As a neutral, Nunez joining liverpool has less marginal upside compared to him joining other clubs since this Pool are already very centre heavy whether at cb or cf. IMO Pool's biggest issues is the left flank, whether for alternative true left wingers or for alternative threats to Robertson. I believe Nunez may be Liverpool's 1st overpriced signing since 2019 and may portend a Firmino exit over the coming year.

danfantastk32 · Post #177 » by **danfantastk32** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:41 am

SgtPepper wrote:As a neutral, Nunez joining liverpool has less marginal upside compared to him joining other clubs since this Pool are already very centre heavy whether at cb or cf. IMO Pool's biggest issues is the left flank, whether for alternative true left wingers or for alternative threats to Robertson. I believe Nunez may be Liverpool's 1st overpriced signing since 2019 and may portend a Firmino exit over the coming year.

Yeah I don't think Liverpool splash like this, unless they know a couple guys are heading out the door.

danfantastk32 · Post #178 » by **danfantastk32** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:48 pm

Well Mane, I am a little confused as you seem to be a great fit here at Liverpool. We're currently one of the top clubs. We're playing great, and your a huge part of it, with a starting positions virtually guaranteed. Why you want to leave, I don't understand. But you seem to be a guy who does his own thing, and plays by his own rules.

Sad to see you go, bud. But thank you for 6 incredible years.....with some great trophies! I wish you the best. YNWA

HIF · Post #179 » by **HIF** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:12 am

Mané seems a really nice guy but has moved on from Liverpool rather quickly.

HIF · Post #180 » by **HIF** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:22 am

Minamino going to Monaco.