How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem?

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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#21 » by LukaTheGOAT » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:04 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:This is basically to what degree do you value LeBron's playmaking and game management skills over Hakeem's defense. Scoring is pretty close to equal outside of 2009 and 2018 where LeBron switched it to a higher degree but there's no doubt his defense fell off in 2018 with that load. 2009 always gets treated like an outlier but it may have been the highest level of bb any perimeter player has ever played along with peak MJ.


I think I would disagree with this. I think Lebron has some separation from 94 Hakeem in the scoring department.

In 94, Hakeem averaged an adjusted 28.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 4.9%) in the PS. Really good stuff. However, Lebron has several multi-year PS runs that I would argue are probably better. For example, looking at some 3 year stints, Lebron looks better.


Lebron (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 32 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.6%)

Lebron (16-18)-Inflation Adjusted 30.6 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.9%)

Lebron (17-20)-Inflation Adjusted 30.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

Lebron (12-14)-Inflation Adjusted 30.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9%)

Lebron (14-16)-Inflation Adjusted 30.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.9%)

Lebron (13-15)-Inflation Adjusted 29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)

Lebron (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)


Heck, LeBron James against the best of the best defenses (-4 rDRTG or better) in the Playoffs from 2012-2014:

▫️ 27.8 PPG
▫️ 8.7 RPG
▫️ 5.1 APG
▫️ 1.7 SPG
▫️ 1.0 BPG
▫️ 52-39-77 splits
▫️ 60.8 TS% (+10.3 rTS%)
▫️ 32 games played
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#22 » by Cavsfansince84 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:28 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
I think I would disagree with this. I think Lebron has some separation from 94 Hakeem in the scoring department.

In 94, Hakeem averaged an adjusted 28.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 4.9%). Really good stuff. However, Lebron has several multi-year runs that I would argue are probably better. For example, looking at some 3 year stints, Lebron looks better.


Lebron (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 32 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.6%)

Lebron (16-18)-Inflation Adjusted 30.6 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.9%)

Lebron (17-20)-Inflation Adjusted 30.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

Lebron (12-14)-Inflation Adjusted 30.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9%)

Lebron (14-16)-Inflation Adjusted 30.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.9%)

Lebron (13-15)-Inflation Adjusted 29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)

Lebron (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)


Heck, LeBron James against the best of the best defenses (-4 rDRTG or better) in the Playoffs from 2012-2014:

▫️ 27.8 PPG
▫️ 8.7 RPG
▫️ 5.1 APG
▫️ 1.7 SPG
▫️ 1.0 BPG
▫️ 52-39-77 splits
▫️ 60.8 TS% (+10.3 rTS%)
▫️ 32 games played



I agree though I was mainly referring to the playoffs where Hakeem took on a bigger role scoring wise.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#23 » by LukaTheGOAT » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:32 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:
I think I would disagree with this. I think Lebron has some separation from 94 Hakeem in the scoring department.

In 94, Hakeem averaged an adjusted 28.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 4.9%). Really good stuff. However, Lebron has several multi-year runs that I would argue are probably better. For example, looking at some 3 year stints, Lebron looks better.


Lebron (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 32 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.6%)

Lebron (16-18)-Inflation Adjusted 30.6 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.9%)

Lebron (17-20)-Inflation Adjusted 30.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

Lebron (12-14)-Inflation Adjusted 30.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9%)

Lebron (14-16)-Inflation Adjusted 30.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 5.9%)

Lebron (13-15)-Inflation Adjusted 29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)

Lebron (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6%)


Heck, LeBron James against the best of the best defenses (-4 rDRTG or better) in the Playoffs from 2012-2014:

▫️ 27.8 PPG
▫️ 8.7 RPG
▫️ 5.1 APG
▫️ 1.7 SPG
▫️ 1.0 BPG
▫️ 52-39-77 splits
▫️ 60.8 TS% (+10.3 rTS%)
▫️ 32 games played



I agree though I was mainly referring to the playoffs where Hakeem took on a bigger role scoring wise.


Yeah, these numbers are all PS, but gotcha.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#24 » by JordansBulls » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:00 am

Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#25 » by falcolombardi » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:02 am

JordansBulls wrote:Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.


he didnt struggle against howard, he actually scored at will vs orlando lol

he was fine against both pacers and spurs
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#26 » by LukaTheGOAT » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:12 am

falcolombardi wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.


he didnt struggle against howard, he actually scored at will vs orlando lol

he was fine against both pacers and spurs


Lebron vs The Pacers in 2013

28.2 pts per 75 possessions and 5.2 assists per 75 possessions with a rTS% of 11.3!

He had a 12.3 BPM (9.5 OBPM) in that series alone, which is absurd.

Lebron vs the Spurs in 2014

30.7 points and 4.4 assists per 75 possessions with a rTS% of 16.1%.

He had a 12.2 BPM (8.4 OBPM) in that series, which is once again very, very good.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#27 » by JordansBulls » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:15 am

falcolombardi wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.


he didnt struggle against howard, he actually scored at will vs orlando lol

he was fine against both pacers and spurs

Sure he did, he lost with HCA that is struggling.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#28 » by falcolombardi » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:24 am

JordansBulls wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.


he didnt struggle against howard, he actually scored at will vs orlando lol

he was fine against both pacers and spurs

Sure he did, he lost with HCA that is struggling.


but lebron has the most wins without HCA out of all superstars, so does that make him the best player then :nod: :nod:
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#29 » by falcolombardi » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:31 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Lebron has always struggled against elite bigs in series. 2009-2011 he lost with HCA to each of them and none of those were as good as Hakeem. In 2013 went 7 vs Roy Hibbert. 2014 against an older Duncan lost.


he didnt struggle against howard, he actually scored at will vs orlando lol

he was fine against both pacers and spurs


Lebron vs The Pacers in 2013

28.2 pts per 75 possessions and 5.2 assists per 75 possessions with a rTS% of 11.3!

He had a 12.3 BPM (9.5 OBPM) in that series alone, which is absurd.

Lebron vs the Spurs in 2014

30.7 points and 4.4 assists per 75 possessions with a rTS% of 16.1%.

He had a 12.2 BPM (8.4 OBPM) in that series, which is once again very, very good.


i had forgot how absurd lebron offense in 2014 was
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#30 » by scrabbarista » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:55 am

PhiEaglesfan712 wrote:
migya wrote:None.

Lebron never carried a team like that and never had the total package on both ends. Olajuwon in 1994 is a top 5 alltime season for me.

The 2018 season exists. LeBron played all 82 regular season games and all 22 postseason games and led a sorry Cavs team to an NBA Finals sweep by an average of 15 points per game at age 33.


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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#31 » by letskissbro » Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:39 am

09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 20 prob. Hakeem was better in '93 and I think people generally just way overestimate the deviations between LeBron's prime seasons because his role and team situation has changed so often. He and Jordan's sustained primes are better than all but a handful of guys' peaks.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#32 » by 70sFan » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:45 am

falcolombardi wrote:i had forgot how absurd lebron offense in 2014 was

Strong case for his peak offensive season.
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Re: How many Lebron seasons over 1994 Hakeem? 

Post#33 » by 70sFan » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:46 am

letskissbro wrote:09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 20 prob. Hakeem was better in '93 and I think people generally just way overestimate the deviations between LeBron's prime seasons because his role and team situation has changed so often. He and Jordan's sustained primes are better than all but a handful of guys' peaks.

Or people overestimate the difference between prime James/Jordan and other top 10 players ever?

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