How many more years until you think LeBron retires?

[Cavsfansince84]

Thats simply not true. We keep reading about MJ taking a year off and not winning after he returned, over and over.

That was a 32 year old MJ though dude. Big difference between being 32 and 37/38. Generally speaking I think MJ gets a pass for 95 anyhow. I never held it against him really and most just chalk it up to him being rusty. I can't even say how many times I've seen people say MJ never lost after 1990 because they forget 95 even happened. It's just 6/6.

[LesGrossman]

Thats simply not true. We keep reading about MJ taking a year off and not winning after he returned, over and over.

That was a 32 year old MJ though dude. Big difference between being 32 and 37/38. Generally speaking I think MJ gets a pass for 95 anyhow. I never held it against him really and most just chalk it up to him being rusty. I can't even say how many times I've seen people say MJ never lost after 1990 because they forget 95 even happened. It's just 6/6.

The point is, LeBron is to this day being remembered as a unique basketball unicorn, an athletic freak, unstoppable on both ends. But this picture is getting cracks if you see him stand around on D, pointing fingers when he himself is not giving a f**k in first place. You can ignore it for a while or try to cover it up with some carefully picked stats for a while but then he, his 1st team all NBA buddy and all the friends he got to LA failed to even make the post season. How much longer do you think until eventually this is the pciture that sticks with people? Even now, kids start to watch basketball for the first time, they see Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Steph, KD and then this old guy everyone talks about who just walks around on D. I think at some poitn it has to hurt his legacy, and his business and brand. Whats there to gain from playing more seasons, each one less meaningful than the one before? Its more a case of "i cant let go" than "i still have it in me". Hes not the first one to stop too late too. So many of our heroes ended their careers in embarrassing fashion, A.I., Shaq, KG, even Kobe, Nash.

There might be a few reasons to keep playing a while; i think there are twice as many to quit now and conserve whatever imagine is left of him.

[Cavsfansince84]

The point is, LeBron is to this day being remembered as a unique basketball unicorn, an athletic freak, unstoppable on both ends. But this picture is getting cracks if you see him stand around on D, pointing fingers when he himself is not giving a f**k in first place. You can ignore it for a while or try to cover it up with some carefully picked stats for a while but then he, his 1st team all NBA buddy and all the friends he got to LA failed to even make the post season. How much longer do you think until eventually this is the pciture that sticks with people? Even now, kids start to watch basketball for the first time, they see Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Steph, KD and then this old guy everyone talks about who just walks around on D. I think at some poitn it has to hurt his legacy, and his business and brand. Whats there to gain from playing more seasons, each one less meaningful than the one before? Its more a case of "i cant let go" than "i still have it in me". Hes not the first one to stop too late too. So many of our heroes ended their careers in embarrassing fashion, A.I., Shaq, KG, even Kobe, Nash.

There might be a few reasons to keep playing a while; i think there are twice as many to quit now and conserve whatever imagine is left of him.

I don't think LeBron has reached near the point some of the other legends of the last 20 years did. LeBron's defensive effort at times is very questionable but I do think he was better in 2020 on that end than he had been in years. Guys give less effort on defense though when there is less to play for. MJ as a Wizard had fallen off a cliff defensively compared to his Bulls self. I mean Kareem was a shell of his prime self from 87 on. If LeBron is still a top 10-12 player I think he is only adding to his legacy by continuing to play. More so with the points record right in his sights now and things like 40k/10k/10k.

[capfan33]

MJ's legacy didn't suffer from playing with the Wizards for 2 years and missing the playoffs. Kobe's didn't suffer from shot-jacking for 2 years on lottery teams. Hakeem was beyond washed his last 3 years, missed the playoffs twice and decided to join the Raptors for some reason. I can go on and on lol.

Ya, nobody really cares when an atg hangs around too long except those who only saw them at that stage. LeBron could still be a top 12 player at the age of 40 though. How his teams are doing is another thing. The Lakers have to have a healthy AD to do much.

Thats simply not true. We keep reading about MJ taking a year off and not winning after he returned, over and over.

Uhh, that's news to me because people rarely bring that up in my experience. In fact a lot of younger people aren't even aware he lost in 95.

[falcolombardi]

Thats simply not true. We keep reading about MJ taking a year off and not winning after he returned, over and over.

That was a 32 year old MJ though dude. Big difference between being 32 and 37/38. Generally speaking I think MJ gets a pass for 95 anyhow. I never held it against him really and most just chalk it up to him being rusty. I can't even say how many times I've seen people say MJ never lost after 1990 because they forget 95 even happened. It's just 6/6.

The point is, LeBron is to this day being remembered as a unique basketball unicorn, an athletic freak, unstoppable on both ends. But this picture is getting cracks if you see him stand around on D, pointing fingers when he himself is not giving a f**k in first place. You can ignore it for a while or try to cover it up with some carefully picked stats for a while but then he, his 1st team all NBA buddy and all the friends he got to LA failed to even make the post season. How much longer do you think until eventually this is the pciture that sticks with people? Even now, kids start to watch basketball for the first time, they see Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Steph, KD and then this old guy everyone talks about who just walks around on D. I think at some poitn it has to hurt his legacy, and his business and brand. Whats there to gain from playing more seasons, each one less meaningful than the one before? Its more a case of "i cant let go" than "i still have it in me". Hes not the first one to stop too late too. So many of our heroes ended their careers in embarrassing fashion, A.I., Shaq, KG, even Kobe, Nash.

There might be a few reasons to keep playing a while; i think there are twice as many to quit now and conserve whatever imagine is left of him.

a theory only proven wrong by literally every nba great to ever play past 36

god knows hakeem is remembered as a raptors scrub, shaq as a liability and jordan as a wizards old man

[uberhikari]

Next season is Kareem. The season after he'll probably get really close to 40k points. Then he retires the next season after he hits 40k points and plays with his son. So, 3 years.

[falcolombardi]

Next season is Kareem. The season after he'll probably get really close to 40k points. Then he retires the next season after he hits 40k points and plays with his son. So, 3 years.

i had heard that his son was gonns be draft eligible next year no?

is he any good?

[uberhikari]

Next season is Kareem. The season after he'll probably get really close to 40k points. Then he retires the next season after he hits 40k points and plays with his son. So, 3 years.

i had heard that his son was gonns be draft eligible next year no?

is he any good?

From what I've read/seen his son isn't that good at all.

[falcolombardi]

Next season is Kareem. The season after he'll probably get really close to 40k points. Then he retires the next season after he hits 40k points and plays with his son. So, 3 years.

i had heard that his son was gonns be draft eligible next year no?

is he any good?

From what I've read/seen his son isn't that good at all.

feel bad for whatever poor team picks him to get a 1-year old lebron rental (inb4 they win a ring with 39 years old bron)

[homecourtloss]

Thats simply not true. We keep reading about MJ taking a year off and not winning after he returned, over and over.

That was a 32 year old MJ though dude. Big difference between being 32 and 37/38. Generally speaking I think MJ gets a pass for 95 anyhow. I never held it against him really and most just chalk it up to him being rusty. I can't even say how many times I've seen people say MJ never lost after 1990 because they forget 95 even happened. It's just 6/6.

The point is, LeBron is to this day being remembered as a unique basketball unicorn, an athletic freak, unstoppable on both ends. But this picture is getting cracks if you see him stand around on D, pointing fingers when he himself is not giving a f**k in first place. You can ignore it for a while or try to cover it up with some carefully picked stats for a while but then he, his 1st team all NBA buddy and all the friends he got to LA failed to even make the post season. How much longer do you think until eventually this is the pciture that sticks with people? Even now, kids start to watch basketball for the first time, they see Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Steph, KD and then this old guy everyone talks about who just walks around on D. I think at some poitn it has to hurt his legacy, and his business and brand. Whats there to gain from playing more seasons, each one less meaningful than the one before? Its more a case of "i cant let go" than "i still have it in me". Hes not the first one to stop too late too. So many of our heroes ended their careers in embarrassing fashion, A.I., Shaq, KG, even Kobe, Nash.

There might be a few reasons to keep playing a while; i think there are twice as many to quit now and conserve whatever imagine is left of him.

Embarrassing fashion? He just finished a season in which he scored 30 ppg on 62% TS. He scored more ppg sans FTs than Jordan did in all but 3 of Jordan’s seasons. Obviously you ignore all data that disproves your narratives but in case others are reading, I’ll post the following.

LeBron’s 2022 scoring via play types
61st percentile in transition scoring (was 70th+ percentile for most of the season)
81st percentile in ISO scoring
73rd percentile as the screen-roll ball handler
93rd percentile as the screen-roll roll man
75th percentile in postups
61st percentile in spotups
87th percentile in handoffs
87th percentile on cuts
94th percentile on put backs

He didn’t have the best defensive season in 2021-2022, but was far from the Lakers’ worst defender. You make it sound as if this is the norm. He was a very good defender in 2021 (see DRPM, DRAPM, individual players type, and individual contest numbers), all-NBA defense worthy in 2020, and a net positive on defense in 2019.

2022 LeBron’s contesting shots

Overall, opponents shot -4.7 worse than average on 12.9 shots contested per game
3 Pointers, -2.7
2 Pointers, -6.6%
Less than 6ft, -8.6%
Less Than 10 Ft, -6.8%
Greater Than 15 FT, -2.7%

2020 defense

“Dubious on defense” It doesn’t matter how much evidence is posted—these takes continue.

LeBron was the driver of their regular season success and was their best/second best defensive player at the age of 35 while being the primary offense initiator which is pretty much unprecedented.

2020 March 31st before the bubble:

LeBron On, AD off, 777 minutes: 113.5 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg, +10.3 [DRtg equivalent to 2nd best in the NBA], points differential equivalent to an all-time teams’.

AD ON, LeBron off, 572 minutes: 111.9 ORtg, 114.4 DRtg, -2.5 [DRtg equivalent to 28th in the NBA], points differential like that of a lottery team.

RPM:

James, +9.58 (6th on offense, 4th on defense; before the “formula change,” James had a historic RPM)
Davis, +2.53

RAPM:

James, +3.5 (5th overall, 32nd on offense, 4th on defense)
Davis, +.60 (130th overall, 240th on offense, 105 on defense)

2020 Lakers’ DRtg when player is on court:

THT: 111.2
Rondo: 107.3
KCP: 107.2
AD: 106.4
Howard: 106.4
Green: 106.0
McGee: 105.7
Kuzma: 105.2
Dion: 105.0
Bradley: 104.0
Morris: 103.4
Daniels: 102.7
Cook: 102.5
Caruso: 101.0
Dudley: 98.4

2020 DRtgs for LeBron Pairs:

James + Cook: 90.8 (11.7 better with LeBron)
James + Rondo: 100.1 (7.2 better with LeBron)
James + Caruso: 95.1 (5.9 better with LeBron)
James + Kuzma: 99.8 (5.4 better with LeBron)
James + Davis: 103.2 (3.2 better with LeBron)
James + KCP: 104.2 (3.0 better with LeBron)
James + Howard: 104.5 (1.9 better with LeBron)
James + Green: 104.7 (1.3 better with LeBron)
James + Bradley: 103.1 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + Morris: 102.5 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + McGee: 105.2 (.7 better with LeBron)
James + Daniels: 102.6 (.1 better with LeBron)
James + Dudley: 102.1 (3.7 worse with LeBron)

LeBron 2020 play type tracking defense as of July 31st

Post up: .63 PPP, top 7%
Pick and roll ball handler: .68 PPP, top 8%
Spot up: .82 PPP, top 12%
ISO: .76 PPP, top 25%
Handoffs: .77 PPP, top 25%
Off screens: .91, top 42%

LeBron’s contesting shots before the bubble

Overall, opponents shot -5.4% worse than average
3 Pointers, -7.4%
2 Pointers, -4.4%
Less than 6ft, -6.7%
Less Than 10 Ft, -4.7%
Greater Than 15 FT, -6.1%

2020-2021 defense

Spot up: .81 PPP, top 10%
Pick and roll ball handler: .75 PPP, top 17%
ISO: .72 PPP, top 19%
Post up: .80 PPP, top 24%
Roll man,: .93, top 38%
Off screens: .96, top 47%
Handoffs: .93 PPP, top 50%

LeBron’s contesting shots

Overall, opponents shot -6.3% worse than average (5th best among players contesting 6+ shots per game)
3 Pointers, -6.2% (11th best among players contesting 3+ three-pointers per game)
2 Pointers, -6.1%
Less than 6ft, -7.7%
Less Than 10 Ft, -6.3%
Greater Than 15 FT, -6.0%

+2.10 DRPM, top 8%
+1.21 DRAPM, top 5%

[falcolombardi]

That was a 32 year old MJ though dude. Big difference between being 32 and 37/38. Generally speaking I think MJ gets a pass for 95 anyhow. I never held it against him really and most just chalk it up to him being rusty. I can't even say how many times I've seen people say MJ never lost after 1990 because they forget 95 even happened. It's just 6/6.

The point is, LeBron is to this day being remembered as a unique basketball unicorn, an athletic freak, unstoppable on both ends. But this picture is getting cracks if you see him stand around on D, pointing fingers when he himself is not giving a f**k in first place. You can ignore it for a while or try to cover it up with some carefully picked stats for a while but then he, his 1st team all NBA buddy and all the friends he got to LA failed to even make the post season. How much longer do you think until eventually this is the pciture that sticks with people? Even now, kids start to watch basketball for the first time, they see Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Steph, KD and then this old guy everyone talks about who just walks around on D. I think at some poitn it has to hurt his legacy, and his business and brand. Whats there to gain from playing more seasons, each one less meaningful than the one before? Its more a case of "i cant let go" than "i still have it in me". Hes not the first one to stop too late too. So many of our heroes ended their careers in embarrassing fashion, A.I., Shaq, KG, even Kobe, Nash.

There might be a few reasons to keep playing a while; i think there are twice as many to quit now and conserve whatever imagine is left of him.

Embarrassing fashion? He just finished a season in which he scored 30 ppg on 62% TS. He scored more ppg sans FTs than Jordan did in all but 3 of Jordan’s seasons. Obviously you ignore all data that disproves your narratives but in case others are reading, I’ll post the following.

LeBron’s 2022 scoring via play types
61st percentile in transition scoring (was 70th+ percentile for most of the season)
81st percentile in ISO scoring
73rd percentile as the screen-roll ball handler
93rd percentile as the screen-roll roll man
75th percentile in postups
61st percentile in spotups
87th percentile in handoffs
87th percentile on cuts
94th percentile on put backs

He didn’t have the best defensive season in 2021-2022, but was far from the Lakers’ worst defender. You make it sound as if this is the norm. He was a very good defender in 2021 (see DRPM, DRAPM, individual players type, and individual contest numbers), all-NBA defense worthy in 2020, and a net positive on defense in 2019.

2022 LeBron’s contesting shots

Overall, opponents shot -4.7 worse than average on 12.9 shots contested per game
3 Pointers, -2.7
2 Pointers, -6.6%
Less than 6ft, -8.6%
Less Than 10 Ft, -6.8%
Greater Than 15 FT, -2.7%

2020 defense

“Dubious on defense” It doesn’t matter how much evidence is posted—these takes continue.

LeBron was the driver of their regular season success and was their best/second best defensive player at the age of 35 while being the primary offense initiator which is pretty much unprecedented.

2020 March 31st before the bubble:

LeBron On, AD off, 777 minutes: 113.5 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg, +10.3 [DRtg equivalent to 2nd best in the NBA], points differential equivalent to an all-time teams’.

AD ON, LeBron off, 572 minutes: 111.9 ORtg, 114.4 DRtg, -2.5 [DRtg equivalent to 28th in the NBA], points differential like that of a lottery team.

RPM:

James, +9.58 (6th on offense, 4th on defense; before the “formula change,” James had a historic RPM)
Davis, +2.53

RAPM:

James, +3.5 (5th overall, 32nd on offense, 4th on defense)
Davis, +.60 (130th overall, 240th on offense, 105 on defense)

2020 Lakers’ DRtg when player is on court:

THT: 111.2
Rondo: 107.3
KCP: 107.2
AD: 106.4
Howard: 106.4
Green: 106.0
McGee: 105.7
Kuzma: 105.2
Dion: 105.0
Bradley: 104.0
Morris: 103.4
Daniels: 102.7
Cook: 102.5
Caruso: 101.0
Dudley: 98.4

2020 DRtgs for LeBron Pairs:

James + Cook: 90.8 (11.7 better with LeBron)
James + Rondo: 100.1 (7.2 better with LeBron)
James + Caruso: 95.1 (5.9 better with LeBron)
James + Kuzma: 99.8 (5.4 better with LeBron)
James + Davis: 103.2 (3.2 better with LeBron)
James + KCP: 104.2 (3.0 better with LeBron)
James + Howard: 104.5 (1.9 better with LeBron)
James + Green: 104.7 (1.3 better with LeBron)
James + Bradley: 103.1 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + Morris: 102.5 (.9 better with LeBron)
James + McGee: 105.2 (.7 better with LeBron)
James + Daniels: 102.6 (.1 better with LeBron)
James + Dudley: 102.1 (3.7 worse with LeBron)

LeBron 2020 play type tracking defense as of July 31st

Post up: .63 PPP, top 7%
Pick and roll ball handler: .68 PPP, top 8%
Spot up: .82 PPP, top 12%
ISO: .76 PPP, top 25%
Handoffs: .77 PPP, top 25%
Off screens: .91, top 42%

LeBron’s contesting shots before the bubble

Overall, opponents shot -5.4% worse than average
3 Pointers, -7.4%
2 Pointers, -4.4%
Less than 6ft, -6.7%
Less Than 10 Ft, -4.7%
Greater Than 15 FT, -6.1%

2020-2021 defense

Spot up: .81 PPP, top 10%
Pick and roll ball handler: .75 PPP, top 17%
ISO: .72 PPP, top 19%
Post up: .80 PPP, top 24%
Roll man,: .93, top 38%
Off screens: .96, top 47%
Handoffs: .93 PPP, top 50%

LeBron’s contesting shots

Overall, opponents shot -6.3% worse than average (5th best among players contesting 6+ shots per game)
3 Pointers, -6.2% (11th best among players contesting 3+ three-pointers per game)
2 Pointers, -6.1%
Less than 6ft, -7.7%
Less Than 10 Ft, -6.3%
Greater Than 15 FT, -6.0%

+2.10 DRPM, top 8%
+1.21 DRAPM, top 5%

whay was lebron rpm pre formula change?