Doctor MJ wrote:
I'm glad if we can figure out differences in process!
On specific points:
Re: don't believe KG more fluid/agile. This makes me want to ask how you see Robinson's movement. I see him as a bit stilted compared to the most agile bigs. Do you disagree with this?
Re: would have been dumb to make Robinson a ball handler. It's only dumb if it's not good enough. I feel like you're thinking of this as "Robinson's a big, so you want him on the interior.", but the question is always how you get the ball to the man on the interior where he's in a position to attack. If a man can handle the ball on the perimeter - a la Giannis - that's going to make it considerably easier.
Re: Giannis better ball handler than KG. I think Giannis has focused on developing this more than KG or probably more than any earlier big with his height, so in that sense, the answer is "Yes".
Re: KG is good at things you don't need from a big. Ooh, we very much disagree here. To me that's talking like how people talked about KG 20 years ago when they really didn't know what to do with KG. I'd say KG excels at all sorts of stuff that aren't traditionally associated with bigs for understandable reasons, but if he can do those things, it's a missed opportunity not to allow him to do it...and KG's career - despite his top tier impact numbers - was full of missed strategic opportunities because he was ahead of his time.
Re: efficiency. Let's put it like this: In today's game, does anyone NOT want an agile 7-footer who can shoot from long distance very effectively while also being a DPOY level defender? Garnett's efficiency would have been considerably higher had his teams focused on a pace & space model...which all teams today basically have to do to stay competitive.
Re: if he were a better rim protector. I would argue that KG basically defined the state-of-the-art ideal for a defensive big in Boston, and that it's really not too different from Bill Russell's approach. The goal of these players is not the literal blocked shots, but the shot disruption that comes from successfully putting pressure on the opposing offense, and to max that out, you want someone who can threaten shots over as much horizontal ground as possible.
When I see Robinson vs KG and agility:
Robinson had the best combination of speed, agility, quickness, and strength that I have personally seen. He was like guard in a big man's body. So when I see DRob, he can take anyone off the dribble in a one on one situation and I'm talking the best big man defenders...so yes DRob could take Hakeem off the dribble.
When I think of KG in a one on one situation, he's a little more deliberate and his steps are more lanky. KG's twitchiness is not as good as Robinson's.
Here is a video of what I mean:
@:13 DRob got the ball and it was a quick spin move, no hesitation quick steps
@:30 Robinson gets the pass and he's already leaning into his spin move, which I don't see much from KG, he's more deliberate in the post, then the other thing is DRob was able to use his footwork and still finish with power, KG was all finesse
@ 1:40 DRob is able to go right around Olajuwon with a quick upfake
@ 2:01 this is one of the best examples of DRob's quick feet and speed that I don't think KG could do. DRob get's the pass and he gets Hakeem completely leaning the wrong way and goes right by him for a power dunk. This is a one on one situation with Hakeem...a player many people think is the perfect center.
@ 2:11 this shows DRob's twitch reactions on defense guarding Hakeem who does a dream shake to the middle and it looks like he has a step on DRob, but DRob is not only able to recover but cleanly block the little hook shot. KG is not doing that.
Then from 2:16 to 3:25 you see DRob dominating a frontline of Shaq and Horace Grant. That is an intimidating front line but he blocks Shaq's shot twice and these aren't hook shots, these were shots with Shaq going to the basket. @2:27 Drob blocks a Shaq dunk attempt AFTER he stopped ball penetration. I don't think is capable of blocking any dunks by Shaq. KG just does not provide that sort of rim protection.
Here is something else I think is underrated about DRob, is that he had a very effective mid-range game. His jumper set up his driving because everyone would play off him because he was so quick.
@ 4:07 he gets the ball at the top of the key and he fakes a drive to his right and completely backs off Otis Thorpe who was a good defender, and creates about five ft of space to get an open 18ft shot. KG is not doing that, because he does not have the agility to blow by defenders. His fakes aren't faking people enough to open up driving lanes.
@ 4:31 DRob is on the right block with Hakeem on his back and he is so quick he leaves Hakeem flat footed and spins to his left for an uncontested layup
@ 5:08 he does it again to Hakeem going around him for a reverse layup...imo, I don't think KG has that kind of agility, footwork and touch around the basket. He may have done it once or twice but DRob did it consistently and the stats bear that out. Robinson is one of the most efficient players ever.
DRob shot over 50% in 13 of his 15 seasons. His TS% obliterates KG's...DRob's career TS% is .583 and only two seasons did KG even match that.
For example, when we talk about efficiency, many people will say that Michael Jordan was far more efficient that Kobe and its true he was, but the gap between Mike and Kobe is smaller than the gap between DRob and Garnett.
The rest of the video is just more of the same of DRob going around defenders and dunking or getting layups.
So to be fair I looked at a KG's MVP 2004 season and its what I suspected, KG is a mid-range jump shooting fadeaway type big man. Similar to Patrick Ewing where I also criticized him is that 80% of his shots are fadeaways. Kevin uses his length effectively to get shots off. He isn't blowing by people, he isn't crossing people over with his handles, and he takes long strides. Watch how long his strides are in the post compared to DRob. You can't get around people with long strides, you have to be quicker.
Then for the defense, you see a lot of KG blocking shots from guards or weakside...DRob was blocking shots faced up. You saw DRob blocking Hakeem and Shaq head on. That is not what KG is doing. One of the issues I always had with KG is that he never wanted any piece of Shaq.
@ 7:25 to 9:00 they show (I guess) all the highlights from the Lakers-Wolves playoff series and I don't see any blocks of Shaq or really anyone during that series. So I checked BR of how blocks KG had in that series and he had seven...in a six game series, your best defender, this GOAT level defender, this amazingly athletic defender got seven blocks? Really? Where is that legendary defense? Where are the reactions...the quickness...the lateral movement.
In that 1995 series between the Rockets and Spurs where Hakeem went all GOAT, DRob still had 13 blocks and 9 steals in a six game series. But KG at his absolute peak (this is one of those top 10 peaks all time we hear about) and he was very underwhelming when the Wolves needed him to step up. This isn't even Shaq at his best or most dominating. This is Shaq starting to get out of shape. Where was KG?
One thing I don't understand is that if you watch KG...he plays a lot like a 7ft Kobe. So when you hear all the complaints about Kobe taking bad shots...inefficient shots...but then you see KG is taking the same kind of shots but lower efficiency, lower volume and he's a big man. I don't see KG having this athletic advantage where he was doing what he was doing on the court.
Someone should have told KG to stick to the post or mid-range and you would be more effective, but they essentially let KG do whatever he wanted and it was not efficient.
I don't feel sorry for KG, he didn't take advantage of his opportunities and some of that was due to his personality imo.
But if you gave DRob that version of Sam Cassell, Sprewell, Wally and I think he beats the Rockets. Drob had crazy Rodman, Vinny Del Negro, Sean Elliott, and Avery Johnson. Imo, that's no contest.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
