Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4

[BoogieTime]

Against: Your team has been in the lottery for 16 straight seasons. Just a few years back your team passed on a generational talent because they deemed another player the better fit. With the franchise's history and current roster construct you don't possess the luxury of drafting for fit. Take BPA and shoot for a star.

So I guess this is the issue I'm having. Who is to say that Murray isn't BPA?

From what I've read/seen of Ivey there's a lot of question marks. Not a great defender, not a primary ball handler, not a great shooter. So what exactly makes him BPA? He is fast and athletic?

I'm pretty much all the way out on Sharpe. Too much of a mystery for me. From what I've seen the tiers seem to be

Tier 1 - Smith, Chet, Banchero
Tier 2 - Ivey, Sharpe, Murray

Maybe an argument that Daniels has elevated to Tier 2 status? But now days its hard to imagine guys like him becoming a star when they are bad shooters.

BPA in the top 5 leans heavily on player projection/potential. Who will player X be in four years? Most scouts give Ivey the nod over Murray in that department because of age, athleticism, and style of play, and how much room Ivey has to grow.

I like Murray as a player and think he fits best with what the team needs. No complaints from me if he is the pick. But if the Kings are going to pass on higher potential I'd like to see them recoup that value in a trade back.

The value may be the floor.

Does BPA just factor in ceiling?

Its like buying a lottery ticket, some folks like the greater chance of a some type of return over the highest pot

And arguably where the Kings are - owner with win now mandate, GM unextended, fanbase who doesn't attend after 16 losing years, best player going to UFA etc, the floor is more important. Because if a player doesn't pan out, thats 20 years of laughingstock playoff drought, record low attendance, Sabonis gone when Murray might show the team is at least competitive enough to stay, Monte's behind etc.

Floor isnt exciting though so its not going to raise the roof on the mocks.

Thats not to say Ivey's total package of ceiling/floor won't win the day with Monte, who knows. There is a world if we dont trade out where Ivey is appealing to management (even if SG isn't the greatest need on the team), no matter how great that chance is. He's tantalizing and talented in some ways in his own right, and perhaps he represents the ceiling and floor together to management. I think we agree that if he's not the player for the Kings his consensus stock needs to be cashed in on some way, though due to the poor nature of the draft, its playing Russian roulette in how far you could move back for Murray if hes the pick

If they end up drafting in this range and not trading out.

[LightTheBeam]

Against: Your team has been in the lottery for 16 straight seasons. Just a few years back your team passed on a generational talent because they deemed another player the better fit. With the franchise's history and current roster construct you don't possess the luxury of drafting for fit. Take BPA and shoot for a star.

So I guess this is the issue I'm having. Who is to say that Murray isn't BPA?

From what I've read/seen of Ivey there's a lot of question marks. Not a great defender, not a primary ball handler, not a great shooter. So what exactly makes him BPA? He is fast and athletic?

I'm pretty much all the way out on Sharpe. Too much of a mystery for me. From what I've seen the tiers seem to be

Tier 1 - Smith, Chet, Banchero
Tier 2 - Ivey, Sharpe, Murray

Maybe an argument that Daniels has elevated to Tier 2 status? But now days its hard to imagine guys like him becoming a star when they are bad shooters.

BPA in the top 5 leans heavily on player projection/potential. Who will player X be in four years? Most scouts give Ivey the nod over Murray in that department because of age, athleticism, and style of play, and how much room Ivey has to grow.

I like Murray as a player and think he fits best with what the team needs. No complaints from me if he is the pick. But if the Kings are going to pass on higher potential I'd like to see them recoup that value in a trade back.

As would I. Issue being, I imagine Indiana would prefer him over the other 2 guys. So I could see us trading back with Detroit. Just not sure they have anything to give us that makes it interesting. Unless the team wants Grant..

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[BoogieTime]

Ivey at 2 now at nbadraft, maybe despite my thoughts he will jump

Still don't know how that works with none of the top 3 teams needing a SG, offensively or defensively

[codydaze]

Ivey at 2 now at nbadraft, maybe despite my thoughts he will jump

Still don't know how that works with none of the top 3 teams needing a SG, offensively or defensively

For what it's worth, I feel like nbadraft.net always has the worst mocks.

[NYG]

If there's no star player, would you prefer trading down and adding a lesser vet talent?

Not this exactly per se but Something like...

Kings get John Collins, Chris Duarte and 16
Pacers get Mo Harkless and 4
Hawks get Holmes, Holiday, Davis and 6

[LightTheBeam]

If there's no star player, would you prefer trading down and adding a lesser vet talent?

Not this exactly per se but Something like...

Kings get John Collins, Chris Duarte and 16
Pacers get Mo Harkless and 4
Hawks get Holmes, Holiday, Davis and 6

Id consider just cutting the Hawks out and doing Harkless + 4 for Duarte + #6. Guess it really depends who the Pacers/Detroit wanted. Id do it if we could get Murray at 6

[BoogieTime]

We can't read too much into not getting potential draft picks in here for workouts for obvious reasons, but I guess we intend to work out Dyson Daniels and not much else so far? He also mentioned the Kings and Spurs as ideal landing spots.

I haven't studied his game, and he doesn't appear to be a win now option (which makes me think the team won't spend the entirety of the the 4th pick on him to be sure), but the more options the FO likes the more they can trade down and pick up assets. And he doesn't play a position that we have potential starters at like SG, I guess (strictly)

It would still surprise me if they just went with a typical younger player with floor with a large degree of this pick though, instead of moving it for win now assets

[Silver Man]

If there's no star player, would you prefer trading down and adding a lesser vet talent?

Not this exactly per se but Something like...

Kings get John Collins, Chris Duarte and 16
Pacers get Mo Harkless and 4
Hawks get Holmes, Holiday, Davis and 6

With Sabonis here I've got zero interest in Collins.

[City of Trees]

We can't read too much into not getting potential draft picks in here for workouts for obvious reasons, but I guess we intend to work out Dyson Daniels and not much else so far?

They have been pretty quiet about workouts but I've seen some big names visiting Sac. Players have been posting pics on their stories

[bibby1023]

Hornets shopping #15 in hopes of landing Myles turner. Do we have enough to add to Holmes to beat that value? I’m going to say no, but would be nice to get back into the mid-late 1st

[CraftylikeaFox]

Can someone give me the argument against Murray at #4? (or even trading down with Detroit to grab him?)

He's by far the most polished guy of the bunch (arguably the entire draft). Hes insanely efficient. Can score inside, outside, transition, half court. He blocks shots, he gets steals, hes got good size.

I get that he's older and will be 22 by time of the draft, what are the other knocks? On paper he seems like the perfect fit next to Sabonis/Fox/Barnes and can make an immediate impact.

My thoughts on him just involve how pessimistic I am about the team as a whole. I don't have any faith in a Fox/Sabonis core taking us to the playoffs/play in. Every team that made it this year should be better than us next year no matter who we draft. If the Blazers land Ayton, the Lakers get serious, and Jalen Green takes the next step / Rockets rookie makes an immediate impact, the only team I am confident we will be better than are the Thunder.

Probably wishful thinking, but if we aren't in the playoff picture next year as I am anticipating, then I have to think we blow it up for good. At that point the only player(s) off the table will be this years rookie and possibly Davion. If that becomes the case, I want to roll with the guy with the higher potential, which is Ivey.

[BoogieTime]

Hornets shopping #15 in hopes of landing Myles turner. Do we have enough to add to Holmes to beat that value? I’m going to say no, but would be nice to get back into the mid-late 1st

I have Turner as the move down target at 6 if we don’t take a big (if Murray isn’t our target) and aren’t picking at 4. I like him more than Duarte or Brogdon at this point, and we have SG options

I still don’t mind the combo of him and Sabonis, overall

[BoogieTime]

I've shared my thoughts on Ivey in regards to the team needs of the top 3 drafting teams, but just to play "who do you think falls" if someone, Ivey or whoever, crashes the top of the consensus:

All these consensus picks have negatives, even in my unqualified opinion of reading posts here and there (haven't studied these prospects). Chet, is a talented unicorn, but his body is a bit unprecedented in terms of how thin he is, yes? You don't know if he is ever going to play center, and you don't know how he'll fare on the perimeter as a 4, so, question marks. Jabari, really doesn't have the diversified offensive talent that most would like for a pick this high. And some folks question parts of Banchero's game as well.

I think despite him being the consensus overall top pick, I think the non diversified offense of Jabari is going to rub some of these rebuilding teams the wrong way who are looking for high star ceiling, while his defense might not have the same upside of Chets. I think he might be most likely if someone falls

[Dadouv47]

Would SAC do #12 + Dort + Denver lotto protected 2023 FRP + Detroit 2023 FRP (heavily protected) for #4 ?

Dort is probably not "the" guy you guys want but he's still pretty young and could help the Kings short and long term. Add a nice prospect at 12 and two future FRPs to improve your roster is decent value I guess.

Goal for OKC would be to take a high upside guy in Ivey and trade Dort because I don't like the fit with Giddey and SGA long term.

[City of Trees]

Would SAC do #12 + Dort + Denver lotto protected 2023 FRP + Detroit 2023 FRP (heavily protected) for #4 ?

Dort is probably not "the" guy you guys want but he's still pretty young and could help the Kings short and long term. Add a nice prospect at 12 and two future FRPs to improve your roster is decent value I guess.

Goal for OKC would be to take a high upside guy in Ivey and trade Dort because I don't like the fit with Giddey and SGA long term.

Dort and the highest pick coming back is #12? Yea I'd pass. I like Dort but he isn't a large enough asset to justify splitting a highly valuable asset like #4 into smaller parts.

Much smaller by the sound of those protections. If you want Sac to bite you'll need two future lotto picks with super light protections.

[LightTheBeam]

Would SAC do #12 + Dort + Denver lotto protected 2023 FRP + Detroit 2023 FRP (heavily protected) for #4 ?

Dort is probably not "the" guy you guys want but he's still pretty young and could help the Kings short and long term. Add a nice prospect at 12 and two future FRPs to improve your roster is decent value I guess.

Goal for OKC would be to take a high upside guy in Ivey and trade Dort because I don't like the fit with Giddey and SGA long term.

Dort and the highest pick coming back is #12? Yea I'd pass. I like Dort but he isn't a large enough asset to justify splitting a highly valuable asset like #4 into smaller parts.

Much smaller by the sound of those protections. If you want Sac to bite you'll need two future lotto picks with super light protections.

I don't even think that gets it done, unless it was worked into a 3 way deal with those picks going elsewhere and a win now player coming to Sac. Dort is a nice defender, it would be fun to watch a backcourt of him and Mitchell, but man would that team struggle to score efficiently.

[SelfishPlayer]

IMO the Kings have invested too much in seemingly all positions besides small forward. I say draft Eason at 4 if Jabari, Chet, and Banchero are off the board. We already know what talented point guards and shooting guards look like playing with Fox. They have all been traded away. The Kings need new energy, an athletic SF with great length. No more guards and power forwards.

[BoogieTime]

IMO the Kings have invested too much in seemingly all positions besides small forward. I say draft Eason at 4 if Jabari, Chet, and Banchero are off the board. We already know what talented point guards and shooting guards look like playing with Fox. They have all been traded away. The Kings need new energy, an athletic SF with great length. No more guards and power forwards.

Have they invested in someone playing off Sabonis? I like Barnes but someone has to be protecting the rim, and Harrison can play SF although its questionable his best position. Whats wrong with Murray?

[SelfishPlayer]

IMO the Kings have invested too much in seemingly all positions besides small forward. I say draft Eason at 4 if Jabari, Chet, and Banchero are off the board. We already know what talented point guards and shooting guards look like playing with Fox. They have all been traded away. The Kings need new energy, an athletic SF with great length. No more guards and power forwards.

Have they invested in someone playing off Sabonis? I like Barnes but someone has to be protecting the rim, and Harrison can play SF although its questionable his best position. Whats wrong with Murray?

The Kings are bad obviously, but they also aren't very young. They can use the versatility Eason projects to bring. They traded away Haliburton, who they should've kept. The Kings should simply finally invest in the small forward position. Murray is an older prospect that projects as an NBA PF. I don't believe he should be in high lottery consideration.

What have Sabonis and Barnes produced while at the center and PF positions together?

[City of Trees]

IMO the Kings have invested too much in seemingly all positions besides small forward. I say draft Eason at 4 if Jabari, Chet, and Banchero are off the board. We already know what talented point guards and shooting guards look like playing with Fox. They have all been traded away. The Kings need new energy, an athletic SF with great length. No more guards and power forwards.

Have they invested in someone playing off Sabonis? I like Barnes but someone has to be protecting the rim, and Harrison can play SF although its questionable his best position. Whats wrong with Murray?

The Kings are bad obviously, but they also aren't very young. They can use the versatility Eason projects to bring. They traded away Haliburton, who they should've kept. The Kings should simply finally invest in the small forward position. Murray is an older prospect that projects as an NBA PF. I don't believe he should be in high lottery consideration.

What have Sabonis and Barnes produced while at the center and PF positions together?

I agree with your logic I think you're spot on. But is Eason a SF tho? His size/length and Offensive game tells me PF.