Jayson Tatum Thread – (All-NBA Team, 2024)

[playa-hater]

If Boston does not win 18, there will always be more than one reason..

But as of the time of this post the reasons are

1 - TATUM's well below his average play.

2 - X

3 - Y

4 - Z

reasons XYZ don't matter as much to me.. reason number 1 has to be fixed.

[hugepatsfan]

It's been a nightmare series so far. Hopefully he can do something special in games 6 and maybe 7 but it doesn't look good. It's just been a very rude awakening. Hopefully Tatum takes this and grows from it vs. shrink and wilt under the scrutiny. Its not a death sentence to his career but this is definitely adversity that he needs to grow from. The pressure is on him the rest of the way now. There will be a big monkey on his back to be a more efficient playoff performer.

[tlee324]

Most turnovers in a playoff season in NBA history.

[threrf23]

Most turnovers in a playoff season in NBA history.

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?s=20&t=C-tDJBZIH_GPQAtxtrksYg

[BK_2020]

Most turnovers in a playoff season in NBA history.

That just means he played a lot of games this post-season.
As for rate turnover stats, Tatum is averaging 4.1 turnovers per game. That's really not all that extraordinary. In the playoffs, the ball is in your team's star a lot more than in the regular season. Add to that the stars are now regularly facing top defenses scheming to stop them, 4+ turnovers per game is not unusual.
For example, in this post-season, Tatum is 8th in turnovers per game. Players that are above him are Trae, Middleton, Durant, Jokic, Giannis, Towns, and Harden. In 20-21, 4.1 TO/game would've been 5th. In 19-20, Lebron played 21 games averaging 4 TO per game and won the championship. In 17-18, Lebron averaged 4.3 TO per game in 22 games.
When you look at TOV%, Tatum is 20th in the league this post-season, below some notable names like Chris Paul and Jokic

[tlee324]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

[Feed Your Head]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

[Celticfan_N_FL]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

Like turnovers themselves. If you fumble the ball in traffic that's a bad turnover. If you pass the ball to the other team that's a turnover that gets spun into not being all that bad.

[tlee324]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

[Feed Your Head]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

In the finals? Sure. He needs to shoot the ball much better than he has, inside the three point line. For the playoffs as a whole? He’s putting up numbers that only a handful of players his age in nba history have done. 26/7/6 on a 57% TS, while dealing with all the defensive attention of other teams.

Take a look throughout nba history, take a look at the ages of guys when they win the title, and how their teams finished at his age. You’ll only find a handful of examples throughout the history of the league, especially the last 30 years. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

His shooting has absolutely cost them in these finals. Just like JB being almost equally inefficient (50% TS for Tatum, 51% for Jaylen), Al doing nothing, Smart being all over the place, Rob being hobbled, the bench doing nothing, etc. Tatum the best player so it rightfully reflects him most, but our problem these finals is the entire team playing below their capabilities. And we still can tie it up tomorrow night.

The soft takes are embarrassing though, soft players don’t drive to the rim as much as he has. He just can’t finish them lol. He also has played 400 more minutes than the next closest player since the bubble, and almost 1,000 more than the guy whose played the third most. That’s the opposite of soft, but you do you.

[ConstableGeneva]

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

In the finals? Sure. He needs to shoot the ball much better than he has, inside the three point line. For the playoffs as a whole? He’s putting up numbers that only a handful of players his age in nba history have done. 26/7/6 on a 57% TS, while dealing with all the defensive attention of other teams.

Take a look throughout nba history, take a look at the ages of guys when they win the title, and how their teams finished at his age. You’ll only find a handful of examples throughout the history of the league, especially the last 30 years. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

His shooting has absolutely cost them in these finals. Just like JB being almost equally inefficient (50% TS for Tatum, 51% for Jaylen), Al doing nothing, Smart being all over the place, Rob being hobbled, the bench doing nothing, etc. Tatum the best player so it rightfully reflects him most, but our problem these finals is the entire team playing below their capabilities. And we still can tie it up tomorrow night.

The soft takes are embarrassing though, soft players don’t drive to the rim as much as he has. He just can’t finish them lol. He also has played 400 more minutes than the next closest player since the bubble, and almost 1,000 more than the guy whose played the third most. That’s the opposite of soft, but you do you.

Is the underlined true though??

Rob has been great whenever he's played and that has reflected legitimately on his on/off +/-. Smart's TS% is better than every round in these playoffs and better than his regular season. Main knock on him is his turnovers. I think what White has given is what you'd expect from a 6th or 7th man.

[MagicBagley18]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

Was he soft when he saved our season against the bucks with 46? This is such a ridiculous narrative this soft thing. Has he been good in the finals? No. He needs to be better. His shooting as sucked. He’s underwhelmed for sure.

But soft? Gtfo. If he was soft we wouldn’t even be in the finals- we would have been home 2 rounds ago. Killer mentality like which all nba level Celtic? Bird? so he’s not bird- fair enough.

Pierce? sorry but let me know when pierce was the best player on a team he led to the finals......I’ll wait. I love pierce - probably my favorite Celtic all time but Tatum is a 24 year old guy who needs to play better but he’s not soft.

[Feed Your Head]

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

In the finals? Sure. He needs to shoot the ball much better than he has, inside the three point line. For the playoffs as a whole? He’s putting up numbers that only a handful of players his age in nba history have done. 26/7/6 on a 57% TS, while dealing with all the defensive attention of other teams.

Take a look throughout nba history, take a look at the ages of guys when they win the title, and how their teams finished at his age. You’ll only find a handful of examples throughout the history of the league, especially the last 30 years. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

His shooting has absolutely cost them in these finals. Just like JB being almost equally inefficient (50% TS for Tatum, 51% for Jaylen), Al doing nothing, Smart being all over the place, Rob being hobbled, the bench doing nothing, etc. Tatum the best player so it rightfully reflects him most, but our problem these finals is the entire team playing below their capabilities. And we still can tie it up tomorrow night.

The soft takes are embarrassing though, soft players don’t drive to the rim as much as he has. He just can’t finish them lol. He also has played 400 more minutes than the next closest player since the bubble, and almost 1,000 more than the guy whose played the third most. That’s the opposite of soft, but you do you.

Is the underlined true though??

Rob has been great whenever he's played and that has reflected legitimately on his on/off +/-. Smart's TS% is better than every round in these playoffs and better than his regular season. Main knock on him is his turnovers. I think what White has given is what you'd expect from a 6th or 7th man.

Rob I mentioned is strictly because he’s banged up, he’s been awesome when he’s out there. Smart has been good as a scorer, but I don’t think he’s played as well as he could. I love White, but he’s 11-38 since game 1, which even with the other stuff he brings, just isn’t good enough.

The Jay’s being horribly inefficient is the biggest problem in these finals, obviously. After I’d say Al being worn down, and the bench not being able to hit shots. But this is all with a different kind of grading curve lol, as we are in the finals and can force a game 7 with a win tomorrow. I’m ecstatic with this team in general, just don’t think they’ve played as good as they can, as a whole.

I just hate the lazy takes.

[ConstableGeneva]

In the finals? Sure. He needs to shoot the ball much better than he has, inside the three point line. For the playoffs as a whole? He’s putting up numbers that only a handful of players his age in nba history have done. 26/7/6 on a 57% TS, while dealing with all the defensive attention of other teams.

Take a look throughout nba history, take a look at the ages of guys when they win the title, and how their teams finished at his age. You’ll only find a handful of examples throughout the history of the league, especially the last 30 years. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

His shooting has absolutely cost them in these finals. Just like JB being almost equally inefficient (50% TS for Tatum, 51% for Jaylen), Al doing nothing, Smart being all over the place, Rob being hobbled, the bench doing nothing, etc. Tatum the best player so it rightfully reflects him most, but our problem these finals is the entire team playing below their capabilities. And we still can tie it up tomorrow night.

The soft takes are embarrassing though, soft players don’t drive to the rim as much as he has. He just can’t finish them lol. He also has played 400 more minutes than the next closest player since the bubble, and almost 1,000 more than the guy whose played the third most. That’s the opposite of soft, but you do you.

Is the underlined true though??

Rob has been great whenever he's played and that has reflected legitimately on his on/off +/-. Smart's TS% is better than every round in these playoffs and better than his regular season. Main knock on him is his turnovers. I think what White has given is what you'd expect from a 6th or 7th man.

Rob I mentioned is strictly because he’s banged up, he’s been awesome when he’s out there. Smart has been good as a scorer, but I don’t think he’s played as well as he could. I love White, but he’s 11-38 since game 1, which even with the other stuff he brings, just isn’t good enough.

The Jay’s being horribly inefficient is the biggest problem in these finals, obviously. After I’d say Al being worn down, and the bench not being able to hit shots. But this is all with a different kind of grading curve lol, as we are in the finals and can force a game 7 with a win tomorrow. I’m ecstatic with this team in general , just don’t think they’ve played as good as they can, as a whole.

I just hate the lazy takes.

Agree to disagree with all three. Can't knock Rob for his injury. He's playing through it and has been awesome. Tatum's playing through his but has been very poor as a finisher, not to mention turnover-prone. White's been that way entire playoffs. One game he gives you something on offense, another game he disappears. Solid on defense esp on Curry otherwise. Wasn't much of an issue before so why bring it up now? Smart's consistently gotten into the paint and has been finishing well there despite his limitations. Could push the ball more but bulk of the offense has been geared towards mismatch hunting and that mainly lies on the Jays.

If the Jays just play to their average on offense, none of the other things matter. That's my lazy (but true) take.

[165bows]

Sorry guys I didn't realize having the most turnovers in NBA history was a good thing. Thanks.

It’s not a good thing, but context is obviously needed. He’s turned the ball over too much, but 4.1 a game isn’t some crazy number.

He was having an all time great playoff run for his age, until the finals. Crap timing, but he’s still got time to end it on a high note.

I'm just seeing a lot of excuses and d---riding for him. He has great skill, an extremely likable person off court, but we need to be real when he's not delivering on it. He's soft and does not have the killer mentality of the all-NBA level Celtics in his position before him, and it's costing the team in the end. Maybe he'll develop that, but it's looking dim right now.

Half a dozen guys that have played in the Finals with him are turning it over at a higher rate. TOs are obviously bad but it's not d*ck riding to say he's gotten little help in the Finals, and almost the entire team is turning it over worse based on how many possessions they use.

[Feed Your Head]

Is the underlined true though??

Rob has been great whenever he's played and that has reflected legitimately on his on/off +/-. Smart's TS% is better than every round in these playoffs and better than his regular season. Main knock on him is his turnovers. I think what White has given is what you'd expect from a 6th or 7th man.

Rob I mentioned is strictly because he’s banged up, he’s been awesome when he’s out there. Smart has been good as a scorer, but I don’t think he’s played as well as he could. I love White, but he’s 11-38 since game 1, which even with the other stuff he brings, just isn’t good enough.

The Jay’s being horribly inefficient is the biggest problem in these finals, obviously. After I’d say Al being worn down, and the bench not being able to hit shots. But this is all with a different kind of grading curve lol, as we are in the finals and can force a game 7 with a win tomorrow. I’m ecstatic with this team in general , just don’t think they’ve played as good as they can, as a whole.

I just hate the lazy takes.

Agree to disagree with all three. Can't knock Rob for his injury. He's playing through it and has been awesome. Tatum's playing through his but has been very poor as a finisher, not to mention turnover-prone. White's been that way entire playoffs. One game he gives you something on offense, another game he disappears. Solid on defense esp on Curry otherwise. Wasn't much of an issue before so why bring it up now? Smart's consistently gotten into the paint and has been finishing well there despite his limitations. Could push the ball more but bulk of the offense has been geared towards mismatch hunting and that mainly lies on the Jays.

If the Jays just play to their average on offense, none of the other things matter. That's my lazy (but true) take.

I mean I said them being so inefficient is the teams biggest problem in the finals. And because of that, White and the bench not hitting shots has been magnified.

I don’t think 3.6 turnovers with 7 assists is overtly turnover prone, but that’s semantics. You’re only as good as your best players, and ours haven’t been good enough in the finals. Al being too worn down, White shooting 29% the last 4 games, Grant disappearing, those are just contributing factors. But like you said, if the Jay’s were more efficient, we’d be up 3-2.

[ConstableGeneva]

Rob I mentioned is strictly because he’s banged up, he’s been awesome when he’s out there. Smart has been good as a scorer, but I don’t think he’s played as well as he could. I love White, but he’s 11-38 since game 1, which even with the other stuff he brings, just isn’t good enough.

The Jay’s being horribly inefficient is the biggest problem in these finals, obviously. After I’d say Al being worn down, and the bench not being able to hit shots. But this is all with a different kind of grading curve lol, as we are in the finals and can force a game 7 with a win tomorrow. I’m ecstatic with this team in general , just don’t think they’ve played as good as they can, as a whole.

I just hate the lazy takes.

Agree to disagree with all three. Can't knock Rob for his injury. He's playing through it and has been awesome. Tatum's playing through his but has been very poor as a finisher, not to mention turnover-prone. White's been that way entire playoffs. One game he gives you something on offense, another game he disappears. Solid on defense esp on Curry otherwise. Wasn't much of an issue before so why bring it up now? Smart's consistently gotten into the paint and has been finishing well there despite his limitations. Could push the ball more but bulk of the offense has been geared towards mismatch hunting and that mainly lies on the Jays.

If the Jays just play to their average on offense, none of the other things matter. That's my lazy (but true) take.

I mean I said them being so inefficient is the teams biggest problem in the finals. And because of that, White and the bench not hitting shots has been magnified.

I don’t think 3.6 turnovers with 7 assists is overtly turnover prone, but that’s semantics. You’re only as good as your best players, and ours haven’t been good enough in the finals. Al being too worn down, White shooting 29% the last 4 games, Grant disappearing, those are just contributing factors. But like you said, if the Jay’s were more efficient, we’d be up 3-2.

Just to be clear, I'm grateful the Jays have taken the Cs as far as six games in the Finals so far. I'm not the type to discredit what they've done second half of the year by bringing up other team's injuries or whatever when we've had health issues of our own. Just from bird's eye view, they've been great and have surpassed my expectations to start the season. But in the moment, the desire to win is really strong lol. They've had their moments (spurts here and there) but both have fallen short of what's expected from a team's top players at this final stage. So if each of them can muster just two more great performances, please please please and thank you.

[Feed Your Head]

Agree to disagree with all three. Can't knock Rob for his injury. He's playing through it and has been awesome. Tatum's playing through his but has been very poor as a finisher, not to mention turnover-prone. White's been that way entire playoffs. One game he gives you something on offense, another game he disappears. Solid on defense esp on Curry otherwise. Wasn't much of an issue before so why bring it up now? Smart's consistently gotten into the paint and has been finishing well there despite his limitations. Could push the ball more but bulk of the offense has been geared towards mismatch hunting and that mainly lies on the Jays.

If the Jays just play to their average on offense, none of the other things matter. That's my lazy (but true) take.

I mean I said them being so inefficient is the teams biggest problem in the finals. And because of that, White and the bench not hitting shots has been magnified.

I don’t think 3.6 turnovers with 7 assists is overtly turnover prone, but that’s semantics. You’re only as good as your best players, and ours haven’t been good enough in the finals. Al being too worn down, White shooting 29% the last 4 games, Grant disappearing, those are just contributing factors. But like you said, if the Jay’s were more efficient, we’d be up 3-2.

Just to be clear, I'm grateful the Jays have taken the Cs as far as six games in the Finals so far. I'm not the type to discredit what they've done second half of the year by bringing up other team's injuries or whatever when we've had health issues of our own. Just from bird's eye view, they've been great and have surpassed my expectations to start the season. But in the moment, the desire to win is really strong lol. They've had their moments (spurts here and there) but both have fallen short of what's expected from a team's top players at this final stage. So if each of them can muster just two more great performances, please please please and thank you.

I agree with everything here. It’s bummed me out seeing them both be so inefficient, I’m just hoping for a big time performance tomorrow night, and then just go all out in game 7.

[tlee324]

Well I don't mind being in the minority here. If you're happy with all this, to each one's own I guess. I hope he kicks up his force a LOT more tonight, or we're done.

And I get it, he's not even in his prime yet. This could all change after this series into a glorious future, but right now I just find it frustrating.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

All of the above is true. No one should take that away from him. No one can really. But it's also true he needs to step up big time in game 6 so we can get a game 7.