Your 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[Manocad]

Man, that was def wrong of Mathurin. I'm trying to be self-aware enough not to simp, and I promise people who know me irl don't consider me woke. If it's what I saw it as, maybe she gets a payment when Mathurin gets that bigboy contract. As an aside, I think people, including the vast majority of women are, in the end, okay with a copped feel if they get a big check out of it. She will have the "power" argument, since cheerleaders are pretty much just hawt civilians and NCAA stars are the reason for the season raking in millions for their schools and being idolized. At least, her lawyer would use the power thing. If a payment happens, then of course we might never hear of it. I can't think of how I'm wrong either, because I think "in between the tits" is a violation. I would only argue that she probably wasn't hurt by it enough to get 200k or something (and for a little emphasis I could totally see her being hurt), but irl, I wouldn't even say that around most people to avoid that conversation. Anyways, tell me HOW I'm wrong if you do though please. And, I'm pretty sure we'd all be pissed as hell if our bystander daughters were touched disrespectfully by the popular kid. LOL, I can't stop talking, but I think this all started with talking about Mathurin's character, and I'm gonna try not to think about that, because I don't know him obvi, and everyone's done bad things. It could totally be an impulse control thing that is perfectly normal for young people like him. He didn't have to plan anything or think anything, but it's still a flaw.

You have already made a bigger deal of this than the dancer did.

Okay, you're funny, but I'm just a rambler and I didn't get hurt and she probably was a little bit. If it occurs to her, and that might be unlikely, or if she has a lawyer family friend contact her with a plan, she might make a bigger deal of it than I did. I'm not asking the fella for money. Seriously, I don't wanna be the maudlin dude, but are you saying my "if it happened to our daughter" comment was worth nothing?

I have two daughters. If they don't have a problem with it then I don't have a problem with it. And right now there's no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that the dancer or TCU had any problem with it.

I see that video and you and flow's reactions and you come off like the "woke" society that wakes up just looking to be mad about something. For pete's sake, at least be mad on your own behalf if you want to throw a hissy fit.

[coolness]

You have already made a bigger deal of this than the dancer did.

Okay, you're funny, but I'm just a rambler and I didn't get hurt and she probably was a little bit. If it occurs to her, and that might be unlikely, or if she has a lawyer family friend contact her with a plan, she might make a bigger deal of it than I did. I'm not asking the fella for money. Seriously, I don't wanna be the maudlin dude, but are you saying my "if it happened to our daughter" comment was worth nothing?

I have two daughters. If they don't have a problem with it then I don't have a problem with it. And right now there's no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that the dancer or TCU had any problem with it.

I see that video and you and flow's reactions and you come off like the "woke" society that wakes up just looking to be mad about something. For pete's sake, at least be mad on your own behalf if you want to throw a hissy fit.

LOL, I love your posts, but you might wanna ease on the tone. Not for nice sake even, it just doesn't make enough sense. I don't know if I would feel so good saying that if it was just "hissy fit" to me. You've done it to others when it served no purpose unless some people think it's entertaining. What offends or hurts feelings isn't an exact science, but I would tell my daughter that what he did wasn't okay and that it would be okay if she had some hard feelings. It could roll right off her back and that wouldn't surprise me a lot. And if she ever gets a check, she can justify it by teaching him and larger society a lesson, that even if he was somehow in some really strange hyper childish mood, he has to control himself and, there is something to the idea of "power structures" even though I think a lot of people overdo that one and even rely on it like a religious dogma. But it is a little different to get disrespected by your boss than your co-worker, and even co-workers should respect you. I hope you believe me though (maybe pointlessly) that people who know me irl have accused me of non-woke as a major sin, and some of them have a stereotype (that they might like too much) of anti-wokers being the dumb or in-their-feelings ones. But anyways, message board or whatever, and if we all listened to each other in depth, we would probably respect each others views on most things. I hope I'm not judging you or Mathurin in some petty or hypocritical way though. I've done many bad things in 45 years. If I leave the house and go touch a woman between her titties, I really don't expect it to go well though.

[Manocad]

Okay, you're funny, but I'm just a rambler and I didn't get hurt and she probably was a little bit. If it occurs to her, and that might be unlikely, or if she has a lawyer family friend contact her with a plan, she might make a bigger deal of it than I did. I'm not asking the fella for money. Seriously, I don't wanna be the maudlin dude, but are you saying my "if it happened to our daughter" comment was worth nothing?

I have two daughters. If they don't have a problem with it then I don't have a problem with it. And right now there's no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that the dancer or TCU had any problem with it.

I see that video and you and flow's reactions and you come off like the "woke" society that wakes up just looking to be mad about something. For pete's sake, at least be mad on your own behalf if you want to throw a hissy fit.

LOL, I love your posts, but you might wanna ease on the tone. Not for nice sake even, it just doesn't make enough sense. I don't know if I would feel so good saying that if it was just "hissy fit" to me. You've done it to others when it served no purpose unless some people think it's entertaining. What offends or hurts feelings isn't an exact science, but I would tell my daughter that what he did wasn't okay and that it would be okay if she had some hard feelings. It could roll right off her back and that wouldn't surprise me a lot. And if she ever gets a check, she can justify it by teaching him and larger society a lesson, that even if he was somehow in some really strange hyper childish mood, he has to control himself and, there is something to the idea of "power structures" even though I think a lot of people overdo that one and even rely on it like a religious dogma. But it is a little different to get disrespected by your boss than your co-worker, and even co-workers should respect you. I hope you believe me though (maybe pointlessly) that people who know me irl have accused me of non-woke as a major sin, and some of them have a stereotype (that they might like too much) of anti-wokers being the dumb or in-their-feelings ones. But anyways, message board or whatever, and if we all listened to each other in depth, we would probably respect each others views on most things. I hope I'm not judging you or Mathurin in some petty or hypocritical way though. I've done many bad things in 45 years. If I leave the house and go touch a woman between her titties, I really don't expect it to go well though.

tl:dr

There are such things as accidents. YOU need to ease up on your tone.

[coolness]

I have two daughters. If they don't have a problem with it then I don't have a problem with it. And right now there's no evidence whatsoever supporting the idea that the dancer or TCU had any problem with it.

I see that video and you and flow's reactions and you come off like the "woke" society that wakes up just looking to be mad about something. For pete's sake, at least be mad on your own behalf if you want to throw a hissy fit.

LOL, I love your posts, but you might wanna ease on the tone. Not for nice sake even, it just doesn't make enough sense. I don't know if I would feel so good saying that if it was just "hissy fit" to me. You've done it to others when it served no purpose unless some people think it's entertaining. What offends or hurts feelings isn't an exact science, but I would tell my daughter that what he did wasn't okay and that it would be okay if she had some hard feelings. It could roll right off her back and that wouldn't surprise me a lot. And if she ever gets a check, she can justify it by teaching him and larger society a lesson, that even if he was somehow in some really strange hyper childish mood, he has to control himself and, there is something to the idea of "power structures" even though I think a lot of people overdo that one and even rely on it like a religious dogma. But it is a little different to get disrespected by your boss than your co-worker, and even co-workers should respect you. I hope you believe me though (maybe pointlessly) that people who know me irl have accused me of non-woke as a major sin, and some of them have a stereotype (that they might like too much) of anti-wokers being the dumb or in-their-feelings ones. But anyways, message board or whatever, and if we all listened to each other in depth, we would probably respect each others views on most things. I hope I'm not judging you or Mathurin in some petty or hypocritical way though. I've done many bad things in 45 years. If I leave the house and go touch a woman between her titties, I really don't expect it to go well though.

tl:dr

There are such things as accidents. YOU need to ease up on your tone.

From what I understand about just myself, it could've been a complete accident, but people gotta be alert, and he has to live with it looking intentional, even if it looked very very quickly intentional. TL;DR, I can think about that, and since we're such BFF's, I'll tell you that someone gave me a stimulant earlier that I couldn't legally get for myself. I don't think it's making me dumber, but certainly could make me extra with the extra talking. It must be that my posts are long, but with forums and Facebook, and everything, we have to take into account other people reading it. In theory, 50 other people could be reading, which makes me want to cover the bases, but also makes me think many won't even attempt to read, because I've done that myself many times.
LOL tone? Idunno, because I was trying to have a good tone, and not even in a fake way. Maybe the conversation should end. If you want, say more and I'll try to respond. I will say that she would likely react worse to me touching her than cool-ass Mathurin if she is an average very young woman. And, if that's insulting to women, then (to the reader, pretty sure you don't care, Manocad) just realize, I'm not gonna compliment dudes either. If she is devious or a go-getter or somehow a college feminist while being a cheerleader or maybe just thinks it's okay all things considered (I wouldn't blame her), then she should look into the money thing. Doesn't hurt to look into things. Could be a missed opportunity. And, even though I feel for Mathurin as a young fella and fellow-sinner, pretty sure he "played stupid games" on this one.

LOL, how this isn't helping the intent of the thread at all, and I hope you are doing okay. I feel like I'm doing okay, and whatever and on and on.
If I say one relevant thing that I don't remember if I've ever said before, it's that I don't think Mathurin busts. Very unlikely. He clearly worked on his game a lot from freshman to sophomore year.

[Manocad]

LOL, I love your posts, but you might wanna ease on the tone. Not for nice sake even, it just doesn't make enough sense. I don't know if I would feel so good saying that if it was just "hissy fit" to me. You've done it to others when it served no purpose unless some people think it's entertaining. What offends or hurts feelings isn't an exact science, but I would tell my daughter that what he did wasn't okay and that it would be okay if she had some hard feelings. It could roll right off her back and that wouldn't surprise me a lot. And if she ever gets a check, she can justify it by teaching him and larger society a lesson, that even if he was somehow in some really strange hyper childish mood, he has to control himself and, there is something to the idea of "power structures" even though I think a lot of people overdo that one and even rely on it like a religious dogma. But it is a little different to get disrespected by your boss than your co-worker, and even co-workers should respect you. I hope you believe me though (maybe pointlessly) that people who know me irl have accused me of non-woke as a major sin, and some of them have a stereotype (that they might like too much) of anti-wokers being the dumb or in-their-feelings ones. But anyways, message board or whatever, and if we all listened to each other in depth, we would probably respect each others views on most things. I hope I'm not judging you or Mathurin in some petty or hypocritical way though. I've done many bad things in 45 years. If I leave the house and go touch a woman between her titties, I really don't expect it to go well though.

tl:dr

There are such things as accidents. YOU need to ease up on your tone.

LOL, Idunno, because I was trying to have a good tone, and not even in a fake way. Maybe the conversation should end. If you want, say more and I'll try to respond. I will say that she would likely react worse to me touching her than Mathurin if she is an average very young woman. And, if that's insulting to women, then (to the reader, pretty sure you don't care, Manocad) just realize, I'm not gonna compliment dudes either. If she is devious or a go-getter or somehow a college feminist while being a cheerleader or maybe just thinks it's okay all things considered (I wouldn't blame her), then she should look into the money thing. Doesn't hurt to look into things. Could be a missed opportunity. And, even though I feel for Mathurin as a young fella and fellow-sinner, pretty sure he "played stupid games" on this one. LOL, how this isn't helping the intent of the thread at all, and I hope you are doing okay. I feel like I'm doing okay, and whatever and on and on.
If I say one relevant thing that I don't remember if I've ever said before, it's that I don't think Mathurin busts. Very unlikely. He clearly worked on his game a lot from freshman to sophomore year.

Let’s skip the mental masturbation.
You have absolutely no idea what Mathurin’s intentions were or how the dancer felt about the incident. That is 100% inarguable and I’ll leave it at that.

[coolness]

tl:dr

There are such things as accidents. YOU need to ease up on your tone.

LOL, Idunno, because I was trying to have a good tone, and not even in a fake way. Maybe the conversation should end. If you want, say more and I'll try to respond. I will say that she would likely react worse to me touching her than Mathurin if she is an average very young woman. And, if that's insulting to women, then (to the reader, pretty sure you don't care, Manocad) just realize, I'm not gonna compliment dudes either. If she is devious or a go-getter or somehow a college feminist while being a cheerleader or maybe just thinks it's okay all things considered (I wouldn't blame her), then she should look into the money thing. Doesn't hurt to look into things. Could be a missed opportunity. And, even though I feel for Mathurin as a young fella and fellow-sinner, pretty sure he "played stupid games" on this one. LOL, how this isn't helping the intent of the thread at all, and I hope you are doing okay. I feel like I'm doing okay, and whatever and on and on.
If I say one relevant thing that I don't remember if I've ever said before, it's that I don't think Mathurin busts. Very unlikely. He clearly worked on his game a lot from freshman to sophomore year.

Let’s skip the mental masturbation.
You have absolutely no idea what Mathurin’s intentions were or how the dancer felt about the incident. That is 100% inarguable and I’ll leave it at that.

LOL, I actually edited and added more, hoping to slip it in before you read it. I've never said I knew Mathurin's intentions. I think the closest I got is that he needs to be alert, but since I said he "played stupid games" I deserve the response, but I somehow also basically said it could be an accident, and tried to describe how that could happen with impulse control and even said that I've done things I didn't understand or plan. If she felt disrespected or people who cared about her felt she was disrespected, that would be the most obvious interpretation though. I never said I knew how she felt. I said I wouldn't be very surprised if it rolled of her back. We're all unique snowflakes in how we take things and moods happen and whatever. If "inarguable" just means we don't know Mathurin and her on the inside in this one, then we've both been there this whole time, although I'll take a tiny bit of blame on how I explained it on Mathurin. There is also the idea that "there are no accidents" and hmmmm.... liking girls too much as a young man and being careless from arrogance as a young superstar.....**** people of all ages and statuses have to be careful. I could go homeless junkie and still be arrogant and not careful with ladies unless I watch it. And people are gonna go by how it looks. And, I still can't believe you wouldn't have any recommendations for your daughters on that, but you did say they might not feel anything bad. You might think I shouldn't respond so much. Maybe I shouldn't, but you gotta understand that you make it hard not too, when you accuse me of this and that. Even a little here and there mixed with your larger points make it hard, and I try not to do that with you. I wanted to only talk about the ideas and not accuse you, so I'm sorry if I did. LOL, if you're still reading. And, what's this "mental masturbation?" It can't be a good thing, but we're basketball fans sharing insights and making best guesses about millionaires who are awesome at something we suck at relatively, so maybe realgm is "mental masturbation" in some way, but can be fun and friendly and whatever too.

[coolness]

LOL, I did say it was "def wrong of Mathurin" in one of the early posts about it. EDIT: I'm coming in a bit too apologetic, because in the same post, I said he "didn't have to plan or think anything" (the copped feel between the titties) END EDIT: I was going by looks like most people probs will. And, accidents ain't an excuse necessarily, but I would certainly feel for him if it was just an accident, as I've had some strange things I couldn't explain including blurting stuff out naughty or even wholesome for some reason. If it wasn't an accident, then he would be pretty dumb to do it on camera, but young people are dumb and even old people. I think it's one of those things we gotta just man up and not do though by being alert and carrying respectful thoughts around and lol EDIT: do it for his own sake too, which is far from woke. END-EDIT If I was giving him advice, I would tell him to somehow hold himself accountable. If this counts as mental masturbation or even bothering Manocad, then Idunno, I'll just try to post about basketball next time. I can't remember if I've done this before here. Again, I took a stimulant earlier and I'm assuming you didn't, so maybe I'm wrong for even going online now ha!

[flow]

LOL, I did say it was "def wrong of Mathurin" in one of the early posts about it. I was going by looks like most people probs will. And, accidents ain't an excuse necessarily, but I would certainly feel for him if it was just an accident, as I've had some strange things I couldn't explain including blurting stuff out naughty or even wholesome for some reason. I think it's one of those things we gotta just man up and not do though by being alert and carrying respectful thoughts around. If I was giving him advice, I would tell him to somehow hold himself accountable. If this counts as mental masturbation or even bothering Manocad, then Idunno, I'll just try to post about basketball next time. I can't remember if I've done this before here. Again, I took a stimulant earlier and I'm assuming you didn't, so maybe I'm wrong for even going online now ha!

Don't worry yourself. Mental masturbation is what Manocad lives for. Regardless of the topic.

[coolness]

LOL, I did say it was "def wrong of Mathurin" in one of the early posts about it. I was going by looks like most people probs will. And, accidents ain't an excuse necessarily, but I would certainly feel for him if it was just an accident, as I've had some strange things I couldn't explain including blurting stuff out naughty or even wholesome for some reason. I think it's one of those things we gotta just man up and not do though by being alert and carrying respectful thoughts around. If I was giving him advice, I would tell him to somehow hold himself accountable. If this counts as mental masturbation or even bothering Manocad, then Idunno, I'll just try to post about basketball next time. I can't remember if I've done this before here. Again, I took a stimulant earlier and I'm assuming you didn't, so maybe I'm wrong for even going online now ha!

Don't worry yourself. Mental masturbation is what Manocad lives for. Regardless of the topic.

LOL, I do like the the fella and his posts though. I'm glad you were contradicting him too. Pure gangster.

[coolness]

LOL, I watched that short vid and knew what it looked like, but didn't even read the part where Mathurin apologized and something about the athletic director? That whole real life real world thing is a female dog.

Anyways, Mark Williams is solid including physical gifts. Jalen Duren is not as safe, and just wanted to give Mark Williams that comment about his gifts (look up his measurements if you haven't) because that's pretty much all people say about Duren. Duren couldn't put up super big numbers for some reason against weaker competition, which doesn't have to be bad in the long run, but he just didn't, and that's all we know. If anyone can tell me if you've seen Duren mocked super high (I haven't, but a tweet said the Pistons were "considering" him or "looking at him" or whatever like two weeks ago), then please drop the info please.

If anyone can talk about Jovic and Dieng some and their projected slots, go for it. The stuff I know about Jovic didn't help, but nbadraft.net erased his past season where he somehow regressed in a big way across the stats. The stuff I've heard confused me and all I've heard about Dieng is that he ran some offense, but the stats don't look like he did, even if assists aren't given as generously where he's playing, which I've never heard that either, but in Europe, yes, the assists might not be given out so much. Jovic supposedly can shoot, which he did better the year before last, and on Dieng, someone (pretty sure a "professional" fan/reporter) seems to think he has this upside and mentioned Giannis in the same thought. Giannis was 6'9" and skinny as Chet starting out, iirc.

[mattao313]

Being super athletic and raw/young usually means you have a higher ceiling than unathletic older players. That said, for every young athletic Kobe or KG their are plenty of other guys that didn't have to drive to be great. A lot of it comes down to the mental tests they do on players today to see where their mind really is, and even that is hard because they have agents training them on the type of questions they will get and how to best answer them.

I actually think Duren might have the highest upside in the entire draft but the odds are pretty overwhelming that he won't be the best player based on what we know. In 2012 some analysts mentioned Drummond to be the 2nd highest upside guy in the draft after Anthony Davis, but that didn't mean that he was ever going to reach that upside or that he had the mental aspect and drive for the game that some other guys in that draft had.

Drummond falling to Detroit was the dream scenario for Motor City basketball fans. Drummond has a downright freakish combination of athleticism and size, and pairing him with a terrific passing big like Greg Monroe can only help his development. There’s an argument to be made that Drummond has an even higher ceiling than Anthony Davis. The question with Drummond is his work ethic and motor, but if he starts giving his all, there are going to be lots of GMs answering questions about why they passed on him. – Seth Sommerfeld

And in the same draft Draymond Green....

Draymond Green is somewhat of an enigma entering the NBA. At 6'6'' 235 pounds, Green doesn't really fit into any position on the court. He's not athletic enough to be a small forward, and he's a bit undersized to bang in the paint as a power forward. Green has a lot to work on coming into the NBA, but he also has a lot to offer. Green will bring immediate production to the court on the glass, and he'll also be able to bring some scoring off the bench with his deep range and smooth stroke. On the defensive side of the ball though, Green will be somewhat of a liability, especially at the small forward position. Green lacks the athleticism and lateral agility it takes to defend NBA talent on the perimeter, and that will keep him from being as productive as he possibly could during his rookie year.

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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[coolness]

Being super athletic and raw/young usually means you have a higher ceiling than unathletic older players. That said, for every young athletic Kobe or KG their are plenty of other guys that didn't have to drive to be great. A lot of it comes down to the mental tests they do on players today to see where their mind really is, and even that is hard because they have agents training them on the type of questions they will get and how to best answer them.

I actually think Duren might have the highest upside in the entire draft but the odds are pretty overwhelming that he won't be the best player based on what we know. In 2012 some analysts mentioned Drummond to be the 2nd highest upside guy in the draft after Anthony Davis, but that didn't mean that he was ever going to reach that upside or that he had the mental aspect and drive for the game that some other guys in that draft had.

Drummond falling to Detroit was the dream scenario for Motor City basketball fans. Drummond has a downright freakish combination of athleticism and size, and pairing him with a terrific passing big like Greg Monroe can only help his development. There’s an argument to be made that Drummond has an even higher ceiling than Anthony Davis. The question with Drummond is his work ethic and motor, but if he starts giving his all, there are going to be lots of GMs answering questions about why they passed on him. – Seth Sommerfeld

And in the same draft Draymond Green....

Draymond Green is somewhat of an enigma entering the NBA. At 6'6'' 235 pounds, Green doesn't really fit into any position on the court. He's not athletic enough to be a small forward, and he's a bit undersized to bang in the paint as a power forward. Green has a lot to work on coming into the NBA, but he also has a lot to offer. Green will bring immediate production to the court on the glass, and he'll also be able to bring some scoring off the bench with his deep range and smooth stroke. On the defensive side of the ball though, Green will be somewhat of a liability, especially at the small forward position. Green lacks the athleticism and lateral agility it takes to defend NBA talent on the perimeter, and that will keep him from being as productive as he possibly could during his rookie year.

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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AND-1 since you're 100% right, but what's weird is some really good college centers (and I'll include Duren, why not?) aren't getting that many minutes. And, I wanna say more than half of NBA teams don't give centers the minutes they used to. Duren could have a very slight Dwight Howard potential, but even young Dwight might have to jump through more hoops these days depending on the team. What counts as a trad center these days that is as important to the team as in the past? A few great stars, but I'm guessing even solid dudes like Capella aren't as important as they used to be. That would be a reason to draft him lower unless he is exceptional. My best center in this draft is Banchero if he gets the minutes there, and he wouldn't be like trad centers. There would be a big gap between him and Williams/Duren.

[The Moose]

Being super athletic and raw/young usually means you have a higher ceiling than unathletic older players. That said, for every young athletic Kobe or KG their are plenty of other guys that didn't have to drive to be great. A lot of it comes down to the mental tests they do on players today to see where their mind really is, and even that is hard because they have agents training them on the type of questions they will get and how to best answer them.

I actually think Duren might have the highest upside in the entire draft but the odds are pretty overwhelming that he won't be the best player based on what we know. In 2012 some analysts mentioned Drummond to be the 2nd highest upside guy in the draft after Anthony Davis, but that didn't mean that he was ever going to reach that upside or that he had the mental aspect and drive for the game that some other guys in that draft had.

Drummond falling to Detroit was the dream scenario for Motor City basketball fans. Drummond has a downright freakish combination of athleticism and size, and pairing him with a terrific passing big like Greg Monroe can only help his development. There’s an argument to be made that Drummond has an even higher ceiling than Anthony Davis. The question with Drummond is his work ethic and motor, but if he starts giving his all, there are going to be lots of GMs answering questions about why they passed on him. – Seth Sommerfeld

And in the same draft Draymond Green....

Draymond Green is somewhat of an enigma entering the NBA. At 6'6'' 235 pounds, Green doesn't really fit into any position on the court. He's not athletic enough to be a small forward, and he's a bit undersized to bang in the paint as a power forward. Green has a lot to work on coming into the NBA, but he also has a lot to offer. Green will bring immediate production to the court on the glass, and he'll also be able to bring some scoring off the bench with his deep range and smooth stroke. On the defensive side of the ball though, Green will be somewhat of a liability, especially at the small forward position. Green lacks the athleticism and lateral agility it takes to defend NBA talent on the perimeter, and that will keep him from being as productive as he possibly could during his rookie year.

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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I wouldn't agree he has the highest ceiling in the draft, that would be Paolo, but for me Duren's ceiling is arguably top 5. I would say the consensus top 4 guys Paolo/Ivey/Chet/Jabari have good arguments of having a higher ceiling, but outside of that its open field.

Already been through this but I think people are mischaracterising him. Offensively he has shown clear signs, not just flashes, of being able to play in the short roll and as a passer in DHO's and from the high post. Will be a great screener, offensive rebounder and has a freakish frame.
He played in a terrible system and also didn't even play with a PnR point guard at Memphis which figures to be a strong suit for him at the NBA level.

Defensively has outlier ground coverage vertically and laterally, can guard in space, switch on the perimeter, protect the rim, play in drops. He highpoint's blocks that almost nobody else in the NBA would reach. As long as that short range jumper keeps coming along I think he has outcomes of being a poor mans Bam on offense and a Rob Williams type on defense. The biggest point though is that there is a type of center that we are seeing getting played off the court in the playoffs, but that isn't Duren.

If his ceiling is DPOY upside defensively, with the ability on offense to play as both an elite rim runner/lob threat + short roller/ connective offensive piece, that to me is a very high ceiling.

[buzzkilloton]

Jalen Duren just played his senior year of high school at Memphis. He had ups and downs but its obv their is big time talent there. As stated it wasnt the ideal system for him. Hes not even 19 until November he has time to add alot of stuff to his game.

All that said I'm not drafting him at pick 5. I'll take him over Keegan Murray though. If we had a second pick somehow I'd grab him in the top 10.

[mattao313]

Being super athletic and raw/young usually means you have a higher ceiling than unathletic older players. That said, for every young athletic Kobe or KG their are plenty of other guys that didn't have to drive to be great. A lot of it comes down to the mental tests they do on players today to see where their mind really is, and even that is hard because they have agents training them on the type of questions they will get and how to best answer them.

I actually think Duren might have the highest upside in the entire draft but the odds are pretty overwhelming that he won't be the best player based on what we know. In 2012 some analysts mentioned Drummond to be the 2nd highest upside guy in the draft after Anthony Davis, but that didn't mean that he was ever going to reach that upside or that he had the mental aspect and drive for the game that some other guys in that draft had.



And in the same draft Draymond Green....

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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AND-1 since you're 100% right, but what's weird is some really good college centers (and I'll include Duren, why not?) aren't getting that many minutes. And, I wanna say more than half of NBA teams don't give centers the minutes they used to. Duren could have a very slight Dwight Howard potential, but even young Dwight might have to jump through more hoops these days depending on the team. What counts as a trad center these days that is as important to the team as in the past? A few great stars, but I'm guessing even solid dudes like Capella aren't as important as they used to be. That would be a reason to draft him lower unless he is exceptional. My best center in this draft is Banchero if he gets the minutes there, and he wouldn't be like trad centers. There would be a big gap between him and Williams/Duren.

I agree that's why I don't want ayton for what he cost. In the modern NBA C is probably the least important position. Traditional post up guys are completely dead and limited rim runners arent that valuable as they can get played off the court by small quick guys and 6'8 forwards can hold their own against them on the boards.

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[coolness]

Jalen Duren just played his senior year of high school at Memphis. He had ups and downs but its obv their is big time talent there. As stated it wasnt the ideal system for him. Hes not even 19 until November he has time to add alot of stuff to his game.

All that said I'm not drafting him at pick 5. I'll take him over Keegan Murray though. If we had a second pick somehow I'd grab him in the top 10.

I think Duren is the only one in the past 2-3 months who gets mocked really high here and outside of the lotto there. *shrug*

[mattao313]

Being super athletic and raw/young usually means you have a higher ceiling than unathletic older players. That said, for every young athletic Kobe or KG their are plenty of other guys that didn't have to drive to be great. A lot of it comes down to the mental tests they do on players today to see where their mind really is, and even that is hard because they have agents training them on the type of questions they will get and how to best answer them.

I actually think Duren might have the highest upside in the entire draft but the odds are pretty overwhelming that he won't be the best player based on what we know. In 2012 some analysts mentioned Drummond to be the 2nd highest upside guy in the draft after Anthony Davis, but that didn't mean that he was ever going to reach that upside or that he had the mental aspect and drive for the game that some other guys in that draft had.



And in the same draft Draymond Green....

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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I wouldn't agree he has the highest ceiling in the draft, that would be Paolo, but for me Duren's ceiling is arguably top 5. I would say the consensus top 4 guys Paolo/Ivey/Chet/Jabari have good arguments of having a higher ceiling, but outside of that its open field.

Already been through this but I think people are mischaracterising him. Offensively he has shown clear signs, not just flashes, of being able to play in the short roll and as a passer in DHO's and from the high post. Will be a great screener, offensive rebounder and has a freakish frame.
He played in a terrible system and also didn't even play with a PnR point guard at Memphis which figures to be a strong suit for him at the NBA level.

Defensively has outlier ground coverage vertically and laterally, can guard in space, switch on the perimeter, protect the rim, play in drops. He highpoint's blocks that almost nobody else in the NBA would reach. As long as that short range jumper keeps coming along I think he has outcomes of being a poor mans Bam on offense and a Rob Williams type on defense. The biggest point though is that there is a type of center that we are seeing getting played off the court in the playoffs, but that isn't Duren.

If his ceiling is DPOY upside defensively, with the ability on offense to play as both an elite rim runner/lob threat + short roller/ connective offensive piece, that to me is a very high ceiling.

Maybe moose even tho I definitely respect your draft knowledge I just don't see it. I don't think a occasional mid range jumper and pass will elevate him beyond just a rim running defensive C. Robert Williams is a good player but at the end of the day he's still a role player. I think Duren is a lot closer to DeAndre Jordan than Joakim Noah ( what you described seem like him imo)

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[buzzkilloton]

What makes you think Duren has the highest ceiling in the draft? He's a pure rim runner defensive C he's very limited on offense, him being 18 is the only 'big potential' he has.

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AND-1 since you're 100% right, but what's weird is some really good college centers (and I'll include Duren, why not?) aren't getting that many minutes. And, I wanna say more than half of NBA teams don't give centers the minutes they used to. Duren could have a very slight Dwight Howard potential, but even young Dwight might have to jump through more hoops these days depending on the team. What counts as a trad center these days that is as important to the team as in the past? A few great stars, but I'm guessing even solid dudes like Capella aren't as important as they used to be. That would be a reason to draft him lower unless he is exceptional. My best center in this draft is Banchero if he gets the minutes there, and he wouldn't be like trad centers. There would be a big gap between him and Williams/Duren.

I agree that's why I don't want ayton for what he cost. In the modern NBA C is probably the least important position. Traditional post up guys are completely dead and limited rim runners arent that valuable as they can get played off the court by small quick guys and 6'8 forwards can hold their own against them on the boards.

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This is why I wouldnt take Duren at 5 he plays center. To pay off value there is a speculative bet on him developing something special were not today seeing. Can that happen? Sure look at Keegan Murray who will be 22 in Aug compared to Durens whos 19 in Nov. big improvements can pop up in that amount of time. Likely he ends up more of a utility guy whos useful but more of a top 8-10 guy for me.

[mattao313]

AND-1 since you're 100% right, but what's weird is some really good college centers (and I'll include Duren, why not?) aren't getting that many minutes. And, I wanna say more than half of NBA teams don't give centers the minutes they used to. Duren could have a very slight Dwight Howard potential, but even young Dwight might have to jump through more hoops these days depending on the team. What counts as a trad center these days that is as important to the team as in the past? A few great stars, but I'm guessing even solid dudes like Capella aren't as important as they used to be. That would be a reason to draft him lower unless he is exceptional. My best center in this draft is Banchero if he gets the minutes there, and he wouldn't be like trad centers. There would be a big gap between him and Williams/Duren.

I agree that's why I don't want ayton for what he cost. In the modern NBA C is probably the least important position. Traditional post up guys are completely dead and limited rim runners arent that valuable as they can get played off the court by small quick guys and 6'8 forwards can hold their own against them on the boards.

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This is why I wouldnt take Duren at 5 he plays center. To pay off value there is a speculative bet on him developing something special were not today seeing. Can that happen? Sure look at Keegan Murray who will be 22 in Aug compared to Durens whos 19 in Nov. big improvements can pop up in that amount of time. Likely he ends up more of a utility guy whos useful but more of a top 8-10 guy for me.

Exactly and even then I think mark Williams is the better player if you're looking for that skill set.

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[buzzkilloton]

I agree that's why I don't want ayton for what he cost. In the modern NBA C is probably the least important position. Traditional post up guys are completely dead and limited rim runners arent that valuable as they can get played off the court by small quick guys and 6'8 forwards can hold their own against them on the boards.

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This is why I wouldnt take Duren at 5 he plays center. To pay off value there is a speculative bet on him developing something special were not today seeing. Can that happen? Sure look at Keegan Murray who will be 22 in Aug compared to Durens whos 19 in Nov. big improvements can pop up in that amount of time. Likely he ends up more of a utility guy whos useful but more of a top 8-10 guy for me.

Exactly and even then I think mark Williams is the better player if you're looking for that skill set.

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Well Duren could still develop into more on offense then Williams. He played in a bad system for him and hes pretty young. Again its speculative and that can burn you on these bigs but I can see the ceiling.

I like Williams as well. I prefer Duren but still I get why many like Williams better. Both would be nice if we got a extra pick imo.