Your 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[Manocad]

I would like to apologize to the board.
I said I believed Mathurin was a good character. It was a throw away comment (I thought), and <1% of my first post.
85 posts later......
Man, you guys are intense!

I think it was more like 15 posts but half of them included enough text to account for 150 posts.

[coolness]

I would like to apologize to the board.
I said I believed Mathurin was a good character. It was a throw away comment (I thought), and <1% of my first post.
85 posts later......
Man, you guys are intense!

I think it was more like 15 posts but half of them included enough text to account for 150 posts.

I actually wondered if he was you. He ain't me. Please don't give him credit for all those posts that I gifted to the world.

[JerseyJungle]

Sharpe has the biggest upside potential, the highest ceiling, but he is such a gamble. Unless Weaver knows this cat is a humble, hard working, God-fearing character home-run, I probably stay away, just because he is such an unknown. So he's gone down on my list.

I personally don't agree that he's done anything to demonstrate that he has the highest ceiling. He can jump really high and has a good jab step/step back jumper. Other than that he's pretty much a highlight reel of dunks against guys playing bullfighter defense, i.e. clearly getting out of his way and giving him an open lane. There is literally zero evidence of him doing anything in a game against anyone other than high school kids. That's not to say that he's not worth someone taking the risk because he clearly has some talent, but all that has to happen is for him to hit the NBA and go Saddiq Bey with his jumper at 40% and he becomes a better version of Diallo. I just don't think now is the right time for the Pistons to take that risk and I don't equate best athleticism with highest ceiling considering his body of work.

For example, consider Jalen Green's NBA stats vs G-league. Would anyone argue right now, at this very moment, that Jalen Green has a higher ceiling than Cade? Because they sure as hell did before the draft. And why? Crazy athleticism that Cade didn't have. But 30PPG on 55%/30% in the G-league turned into 17.3 PPG on 42.6%/34.3% in the NBA. If those percentages continue what does that make him? A nice role player, probably the #3 guy on a high level team. Not exactly a terribly high ceiling since that's the same description Bey gets and he's generally described as having below average athleticism. Could I see Sharpe falling into the same mold as Green? Absolutely.

Part of the reason that Sharpe's ceiling is high (you hear that alot, not just from me) is exactly because we don't have a good read on him. His floor is also probably the lowest of the other three (Mathurin, Murray and Ivey). So he's a big gamble - the range is enormous, he could be great, he could be a role player. This is why Weaver makes the big bucks.

I do know some people who still believe Green will blossom. If we re-did last year's draft today, I'd still take Cade. But consider that Green did not get going until March. In seven of the last eight games, Green scored over 30 points, and had a 41 point game over that stretch. I think its not out of the question that his ceiling could be higher than Cade's. I don't think it will be, but I wouldn't call it an absurd argument. After all, Green shot better than Cade from 2 and from 3, and Cade averaged only 0.1 points more for the year. I think Cade has intangibles that Green doesn't have, but there are still Green believers out there.

[whitehops]

Out of Ivey, Mathurin, Murray or Sharpe, I think Ivey needs the ball more, and would be an alternative to Cade bringing up the floor. But he's best at creating his own shot, not necessarily for others. I used to think Cade needed another guy to help with ball handling duties. He needs to cut down on his TO's. But when we did that last year, with Cade on the floor, i'm not convinced we did any better -- would love to see some stats on that.

So if you prefer an alternative to Cade bringing the ball up, Ivey might be the best option. Personally, I'd have Mathurin, Sharpe, or Murray as better options for us.

i think what cade showed in his rookie season is that he can handle a lot of offensive responsibility. put him in pretty much any situation and he can handle it (and often succeed). i think it's important any guard or wing creator we put with cade elevates the supporting cast/balances the offense, more than taking the ball out of cade's hands specifically because he isn't able.

i have had many different thoughts/theories the last couple days about how ivey and cade would work together and one thing that really makes me want to just see it out of curiosity is that they are sheer polar opposites in style of play. cade plays slow, physical, methodically and always at his pace. ivey on the other hand might be the fastest player in the league and often plays at 90-100% speed lol. i know we often think of spacing as purely 3 point shooting but if a defense loads up on cade's side and the ball is swung to ivey he can blow by his man and get to the rim in a second.

i think the two very different ways (cade slow/ivey fast) of putting pressure on the rim could definitely work, but it would require ivey to play a pretty different role than he did in college which muddies the projection. the good thing is that he could start learning from day one and they'd have great chemistry by the time they need contract extensions.

[mattao313]

Coolness is on Addys staying up arguing with Manocad

Coolness is the first guy I ever seen out talk him lmao.

Sent from my 5087Z using RealGM mobile app

[Jsindto]

I've heard JEIII say this, and that the IDEA of Ivey on the Pistons is definitely intriguing. And if him and Cade blend well together, they could be the best backcourt in basketball in 3-5 years. But it could also be oil and water and just end up meh as well. I'd personally go for it because the upside is so great, but I don't think of it as some grandslam.

[Kilo]

Who was ranked #1 HS the last few years, or top 5 each year even? Does that mean something. Cade was right? Sharpe would be 2023 #1 OA favorite if he went to college next year - and isn't the class pretty stacked?

[Manocad]

Sharpe has the biggest upside potential, the highest ceiling, but he is such a gamble. Unless Weaver knows this cat is a humble, hard working, God-fearing character home-run, I probably stay away, just because he is such an unknown. So he's gone down on my list.

I personally don't agree that he's done anything to demonstrate that he has the highest ceiling. He can jump really high and has a good jab step/step back jumper. Other than that he's pretty much a highlight reel of dunks against guys playing bullfighter defense, i.e. clearly getting out of his way and giving him an open lane. There is literally zero evidence of him doing anything in a game against anyone other than high school kids. That's not to say that he's not worth someone taking the risk because he clearly has some talent, but all that has to happen is for him to hit the NBA and go Saddiq Bey with his jumper at 40% and he becomes a better version of Diallo. I just don't think now is the right time for the Pistons to take that risk and I don't equate best athleticism with highest ceiling considering his body of work.

For example, consider Jalen Green's NBA stats vs G-league. Would anyone argue right now, at this very moment, that Jalen Green has a higher ceiling than Cade? Because they sure as hell did before the draft. And why? Crazy athleticism that Cade didn't have. But 30PPG on 55%/30% in the G-league turned into 17.3 PPG on 42.6%/34.3% in the NBA. If those percentages continue what does that make him? A nice role player, probably the #3 guy on a high level team. Not exactly a terribly high ceiling since that's the same description Bey gets and he's generally described as having below average athleticism. Could I see Sharpe falling into the same mold as Green? Absolutely.

Part of the reason that Sharpe's ceiling is high (you hear that alot, not just from me) is exactly because we don't have a good read on him. His floor is also probably the lowest of the other three (Mathurin, Murray and Ivey). So he's a big gamble - the range is enormous, he could be great, he could be a role player. This is why Weaver makes the big bucks.

I do know some people who still believe Green will blossom. If we re-did last year's draft today, I'd still take Cade. But consider that Green did not get going until March. In seven of the last eight games, Green scored over 30 points, and had a 41 point game over that stretch. I think its not out of the question that his ceiling could be higher than Cade's. I don't think it will be, but I wouldn't call it an absurd argument. After all, Green shot better than Cade from 2 and from 3, and Cade averaged only 0.1 points more for the year. I think Cade has intangibles that Green doesn't have, but there are still Green believers out there.

I never said an assumption that Green could still have a higher ceiling than Cade is an absurd argument; that certainly could still be the case. But it could also not be. I will however admit that I'm confused as to how not knowing much about Sharpe equates to him having the highest potential ceiling; my point is that it's the exact opposite. Absolutely a lot of people are saying it, and the logic is always the same--crazy athleticism = high ceiling. Personally I'll take proven ability, like shooting 55%/40%, as better evidence of a high ceiling than just jumping really high.

[Manocad]

Who was ranked #1 HS the last few years, or top 5 each year even? Does that mean something. Cade was right? Sharpe would be 2023 #1 OA favorite if he went to college next year - and isn't the class pretty stacked?

That's a somewhat bold prediction considering Sharpe hasn't even played against college competition yet. Now, certainly if he demonstrated the same level of relative performance in college that he did in high school, sure, I could see him being favored to go #1. But that hasn't happened yet.

[FloridaMan78]

Who was ranked #1 HS the last few years, or top 5 each year even? Does that mean something. Cade was right? Sharpe would be 2023 #1 OA favorite if he went to college next year - and isn't the class pretty stacked?

Wemba and Scoot are #1 and #2 next year. I think that’s why Sharpe didn’t stay. He couldn’t really up his stock and really only fall.

[Manocad]

Who was ranked #1 HS the last few years, or top 5 each year even? Does that mean something. Cade was right? Sharpe would be 2023 #1 OA favorite if he went to college next year - and isn't the class pretty stacked?

Wemba and Scoot are #1 and #2 next year. I think that’s why Sharpe didn’t stay. He couldn’t really up his stock and really only fall.

I disagree completely. If Sharped stayed and played next year, even if he finished as the #3 prospect behind Wemba and Scoot he goes top 3 in the draft. It would be a miracle for him to go top 3 in this draft so he absolutely could have risen his stock if we're simply looking at what he could have done next year vs what he did this year relative to his draft position.

I think Sharpe didn't stay because he wanted the money sooner. He sure as hell didn't up his stock by not playing at Kentucky; he was likely protecting himself from injury and getting into the draft as soon as he could. And that's not to say that's the answer, but sure seems pretty logical to me.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think there's a non-zero chance OKC takes Sharpe or Ivey at #2 and throws all our expectations off the map.

[FloridaMan78]

Who was ranked #1 HS the last few years, or top 5 each year even? Does that mean something. Cade was right? Sharpe would be 2023 #1 OA favorite if he went to college next year - and isn't the class pretty stacked?

Wemba and Scoot are #1 and #2 next year. I think that’s why Sharpe didn’t stay. He couldn’t really up his stock and really only fall.

I disagree completely. If Sharped stayed and played next year, even if he finished as the #3 prospect behind Wemba and Scoot he goes top 3 in the draft. It would be a miracle for him to go top 3 in this draft so he absolutely could have risen his stock if we're simply looking at what he could have done next year vs what he did this year relative to his draft position.

I think Sharpe didn't stay because he wanted the money sooner. He sure as hell didn't up his stock by not playing at Kentucky; he was likely protecting himself from injury and getting into the draft as soon as he could. And that's not to say that's the answer, but sure seems pretty logical to me.

I guess you see a big difference between pick 3 to 5, I don't. Its only around a mil difference. And the risk of getting hurt or not playing well is totally not worth it.

[Manocad]

Wemba and Scoot are #1 and #2 next year. I think that’s why Sharpe didn’t stay. He couldn’t really up his stock and really only fall.

I disagree completely. If Sharped stayed and played next year, even if he finished as the #3 prospect behind Wemba and Scoot he goes top 3 in the draft. It would be a miracle for him to go top 3 in this draft so he absolutely could have risen his stock if we're simply looking at what he could have done next year vs what he did this year relative to his draft position.

I think Sharpe didn't stay because he wanted the money sooner. He sure as hell didn't up his stock by not playing at Kentucky; he was likely protecting himself from injury and getting into the draft as soon as he could. And that's not to say that's the answer, but sure seems pretty logical to me.

I guess you see a big difference between pick 3 to 5, I don't. Its only around a mil difference. And the risk of getting hurt or not playing well is totally not worth it.

You're disregarding the possibility that he could have played next year, dominated, and gone #1.

[MotownMadness]

Hoping Ivey is Weavers target. He should be attainable with the win now Kings being our only real threat to take him. No reason we couldn't work out a small deal even if we dont want to risk them taking him.

If Ivey can create separation with his explosive burst to the rim at the next level then he's gonna produce

[edmunder_prc]

i have had many different thoughts/theories the last couple days about how ivey and cade would work together and one thing that really makes me want to just see it out of curiosity is that they are sheer polar opposites in style of play. cade plays slow, physical, methodically and always at his pace. ivey on the other hand might be the fastest player in the league and often plays at 90-100% speed lol. i know we often think of spacing as purely 3 point shooting but if a defense loads up on cade's side and the ball is swung to ivey he can blow by his man and get to the rim in a second.

i think the two very different ways (cade slow/ivey fast) of putting pressure on the rim could definitely work, but it would require ivey to play a pretty different role than he did in college which muddies the projection. the good thing is that he could start learning from day one and they'd have great chemistry by the time they need contract extensions.

Can't triple team Cade with Ivey waiting to get the ball with a full head of steam going at the basket. It simply wont work.

It would mean that the 3/4/5 should all be able to hit the 3 well though. Bey is good, but the 4 and 5 spot will need some work.

[FloridaMan78]

I disagree completely. If Sharped stayed and played next year, even if he finished as the #3 prospect behind Wemba and Scoot he goes top 3 in the draft. It would be a miracle for him to go top 3 in this draft so he absolutely could have risen his stock if we're simply looking at what he could have done next year vs what he did this year relative to his draft position.

I think Sharpe didn't stay because he wanted the money sooner. He sure as hell didn't up his stock by not playing at Kentucky; he was likely protecting himself from injury and getting into the draft as soon as he could. And that's not to say that's the answer, but sure seems pretty logical to me.

I guess you see a big difference between pick 3 to 5, I don't. Its only around a mil difference. And the risk of getting hurt or not playing well is totally not worth it.

You're disregarding the possibility that he could have played next year, dominated, and gone #1.

Even if he did he wouldn't jump Wemba or Scoot. Lower competition.

[MotownMadness]

Maybe Kings will feel a little forced into taking Murray after Ivey publicly announcing he doesn't want to play there.

Murray fits their needs well and might be BPA to them now. Teams will want to trade up for Ivey but if Kings drop past us then they risk not being able to get Murray cause we also like him.

[rmfc]

Maybe Kings will feel a little forced into taking Murray after Ivey publicly announcing he doesn't want to play there.

Murray fits their needs well and might be BPA to them now. Teams will want to trade up for Ivey but if Kings drop past us then they risk not being able to get Murray cause we also like him.

Unless the plan for the Kings is to move on from Fox soon, Ivey is not really a good fit there. Unless some team in the top 3 takes Ivey and causes one of the bigs to fall, I think that the Kings will draft Murray.

[Kilo]

A guy ranked #1 in his HS class vs a guy who didn't get a sniff from big programs out of HS and only broke out three years out when he'd physically more mature than most he's playing against.

Call up Houston and accept any trade ask outside of Cade Cunningham to move up from #5 to #3. Get Paolo. Then you build from there going forward.