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Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread

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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#521 » by Karate Diop » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:20 am

therealbig3 wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Curry is a better player than KD, in what world is he not?


In a world where you factor in defense... KD did not play well against the Celtics, but the fact that Curry has doesn't really move the needle when you look at each player's entire body of work.

You win and you lose as a team, and this Nets team as a whole got progressively worse as the season started to wind down...


There's a bigger gap on offense than defense.

Their body of work: KD needed Curry to win. That's essentially it.


That's an extremely simplified take..

The Warriors played elite team basketball and that's why they were able to beat an injured Cavaliers team in their first meeting, when the Cavaliers had better health in the rematch Curry ultimately couldn't execute in the clutch and was one of the primary reasons the Warriors choked...

The next two championships were delivered by KD and then Curry choked again against the Raptors...

Curry has been great these finals against inferior competition but his "greatness" is vastly overrated. He's never been a put the team on your back for an entire season type player...
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#522 » by therealbig3 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:24 am

Karate Diop wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
In a world where you factor in defense... KD did not play well against the Celtics, but the fact that Curry has doesn't really move the needle when you look at each player's entire body of work.

You win and you lose as a team, and this Nets team as a whole got progressively worse as the season started to wind down...


There's a bigger gap on offense than defense.

Their body of work: KD needed Curry to win. That's essentially it.


That's an extremely simplified take..

The Warriors played elite team basketball and that's why they were able to beat an injured Cavaliers team in their first meeting, when the Cavaliers had better health in the rematch Curry ultimately couldn't execute in the clutch and was one of the primary reasons the Warriors choked...

The next two championships were delivered by KD and then Curry choked again against the Raptors...

Curry has been great these finals against inferior competition but his "greatness" is vastly overrated. He's never been a put the team on your back for an entire season type player...


Both guys have flaws, but KD has been a mediocre playoff performer any time he hasn't played next to Curry.

Curry has shown WAY more production in the clutch and as an overall playoff performer than KD. The only person whose greatness is vastly overrated is KD.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#523 » by Karate Diop » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:56 am

therealbig3 wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
There's a bigger gap on offense than defense.

Their body of work: KD needed Curry to win. That's essentially it.


That's an extremely simplified take..

The Warriors played elite team basketball and that's why they were able to beat an injured Cavaliers team in their first meeting, when the Cavaliers had better health in the rematch Curry ultimately couldn't execute in the clutch and was one of the primary reasons the Warriors choked...

The next two championships were delivered by KD and then Curry choked again against the Raptors...

Curry has been great these finals against inferior competition but his "greatness" is vastly overrated. He's never been a put the team on your back for an entire season type player...


Both guys have flaws, but KD has been a mediocre playoff performer any time he hasn't played next to Curry.

Curry has shown WAY more production in the clutch and as an overall playoff performer than KD. The only person whose greatness is vastly overrated is KD.


I did a quick high level run through of the stats and respectfully disagree... Curry barely has KD beat in efficiency, but that's really it and can at least partially be chalked up to Golden Boy status / calls.

It's easy to pile on KD after he played miserable in this year's playoffs, but if you replaced KD with Curry the Nets don't even make it to the playoffs...
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#524 » by GTR11 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:58 pm

Not going to lie, I wasn't watching much of BSPN and Screaming A for good few years ( random vids on twitter occasionally only, not full shows ) and proud of it. However, watching how JJ just be embarrassing him gives me joy.

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=mFWfxYPOC0vLYzhKhjDq8Q

I mean, Kyrie and AD as great as they are as individual talent. They just not floor raiser type player. They are pure talent you have to somehow implement into a team without expectations. And after this year, I'm really wondering about KD. Are we sure he's that Kobe and MJ we think about, or is he just Kyrie on steroids :dontknow:

I mean given a choice right now. Who'd you rather have Luka or AD, Luka or KD, Luka or Kyrie? Same with Joker, would you have either one of them over Joker?

I'm sure as hell taking Luka and Joker without even thinking who's the other option. Giannis will be hard to pass on,, but I can live with it knowing I got Luka. Let alone hearing about about them 3.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#525 » by GTR11 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:38 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=SRMcazepFltpVeiFZFcPgw

If Saltics wont improve next year. Life will become living hell.

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=SRMcazepFltpVeiFZFcPgw

And there vids of how Wiggins and Curry target White. Crazy how they didn't even had to expose Smart as a spot up shooter.

Kenny learned a lot from best in the business. Both Bud and Kerr elite level coaches. Thinking we kept clown who's available for only 34 games a season over top coach hurt my feeling so much right now.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#526 » by gigantes » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:33 pm

Karate Diop wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
That's an extremely simplified take..

The Warriors played elite team basketball and that's why they were able to beat an injured Cavaliers team in their first meeting, when the Cavaliers had better health in the rematch Curry ultimately couldn't execute in the clutch and was one of the primary reasons the Warriors choked...

The next two championships were delivered by KD and then Curry choked again against the Raptors...

Curry has been great these finals against inferior competition but his "greatness" is vastly overrated. He's never been a put the team on your back for an entire season type player...


Both guys have flaws, but KD has been a mediocre playoff performer any time he hasn't played next to Curry.

Curry has shown WAY more production in the clutch and as an overall playoff performer than KD. The only person whose greatness is vastly overrated is KD.


I did a quick high level run through of the stats and respectfully disagree... Curry barely has KD beat in efficiency, but that's really it and can at least partially be chalked up to Golden Boy status / calls.

It's easy to pile on KD after he played miserable in this year's playoffs, but if you replaced KD with Curry the Nets don't even make it to the playoffs...

You both bring interesting, real points IMO, but adding on, I think there's one other ocean-sized disparity between Curry and KD, and it's this--

Chef Curry seems perfectly content to buy in to the system-approach, sacrifice for team success, and even improve his D over the years until he's become a modestly-good defender at age 34, of all ages(!)

Meanwhile, KD? While as luminous, talented, unstoppable & versatile as he is, Durant's always been pretty-much a famous gunslinger, whose concern has not so much been about team systems, but being the baddest man that you build around, for better or worse.

Now, for sure that's hardly unique to KD or many other superstars, but I think it does speak to lots of things we're seeing play out not just in these playoffs, but across years of results. Indeed, you look at the record of teams that built organically, stayed patient, were willing to stay on the downlow for a couple seasons here and there, and... honestly, what's the last finals-team that DIDN'T do it that way...?

So yeah, not to harp on this *yet again*, but IMO Sean Marks completely jettisoned the 'all-in-together' team concept when he hired two super-expensive guns-for-hire in KD&KI, and now we're seeing why that's such a terrible idea via all these other teams who actually get to the finals.

And that's how that works.

All we have here in BRK are an endless series of "coulds" "woulds" and "shoulds."

Eh, maybe let's just mint ourselves a C-W-S Trophy for our beloved Nets? :D
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#527 » by GTR11 » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:13 am

gigantes wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
Both guys have flaws, but KD has been a mediocre playoff performer any time he hasn't played next to Curry.

Curry has shown WAY more production in the clutch and as an overall playoff performer than KD. The only person whose greatness is vastly overrated is KD.


I did a quick high level run through of the stats and respectfully disagree... Curry barely has KD beat in efficiency, but that's really it and can at least partially be chalked up to Golden Boy status / calls.

It's easy to pile on KD after he played miserable in this year's playoffs, but if you replaced KD with Curry the Nets don't even make it to the playoffs...

You both bring interesting, real points IMO, but adding on, I think there's one other ocean-sized disparity between Curry and KD, and it's this--

Chef Curry seems perfectly content to buy in to the system-approach, sacrifice for team success, and even improve his D over the years until he's become a modestly-good defender at age 34, of all ages(!)

Meanwhile, KD? While as luminous, talented, unstoppable & versatile as he is, Durant's always been pretty-much a famous gunslinger, whose concern has not so much been about team systems, but being the baddest man that you build around, for better or worse.

Now, for sure that's hardly unique to KD or many other superstars, but I think it does speak to lots of things we're seeing play out not just in these playoffs, but across years of results. Indeed, you look at the record of teams that built organically, stayed patient, were willing to stay on the downlow for a couple seasons here and there, and... honestly, what's the last finals-team that DIDN'T do it that way...?

So yeah, not to harp on this *yet again*, but IMO Sean Marks completely jettisoned the 'all-in-together' team concept when he hired two super-expensive guns-for-hire in KD&KI, and now we're seeing why that's such a terrible idea via all these other teams who actually get to the finals.

And that's how that works.

All we have here in BRK are an endless series of "coulds" "woulds" and "shoulds."

Eh, maybe let's just mint ourselves a C-W-S Trophy for our beloved Nets? :D


1. Raptors-> did they draft Lowry? Kawhi? Gasol? Ibaka? Miami -> did they draft LBJ? Bosh? Allen? Posey? Pistons ? How many home grown talent was there? Dirk led Mavs, how many did they have. Lakers with Shaq, Gasol, Odom, Horry etc. The list is actually is much much bigger than you make it sound to be.

Now let me ask you a question. How many organically build teams didn't win one?

Why same coaches win over and over again?

2. How often GM's say not to top 5 or 15 player?

https://clutchpoints.com/nets-news-team-owner-joe-tsai-made-call-to-fire-kenny-atkinson/

Why owner talks to players and not GM who hired him and than fire coach.

The deal had come together quickly, from Harden kind-of, sort-of expressing a desire to leave two days earlier to a call between team owners Joe Tsai and Josh Harris that spurred things along and finally to frantic negotiations the morning of the trade deadline
.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/16/inside-48-hours-that-sent-james-harden-to-76ers-reshaped-nets/

Why owner makes trades? Why do we have GM spot?

3. How exactly thing work?
A- do we compare different generations?
B- is there a specific formula?
C- market play any role?
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#528 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:26 pm

GTR11 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=SRMcazepFltpVeiFZFcPgw

If Saltics wont improve next year. Life will become living hell.

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=SRMcazepFltpVeiFZFcPgw

And there vids of how Wiggins and Curry target White. Crazy how they didn't even had to expose Smart as a spot up shooter.

Kenny learned a lot from best in the business. Both Bud and Kerr elite level coaches. Thinking we kept clown who's available for only 34 games a season over top coach hurt my feeling so much right now.


Sean Marks needs to be fired along with Steve Nash.

It's inexcusable to hire a complete novice when the team has a limited window to win. You think Nash would have come up with the adjustments Kerr has made?

I'm so sick right now.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#529 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:29 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:

I don't recall the Nets playing a street ball offense under Kenny though


Ball movement was a little better but it was basically chuck up as many threes as you can regardless of whether you're making them and then never make an adjustment when they're not falling...

I'd rather have Kenny, but again, given his own flaws, unless he's changed philosophies I don't think he would be the answer either...

That's true, but I think that's partly a function of how bad the talent on those rosters was. They had to follow the analytics, because they lacked super efficient mid range players.


Exactly, our best mid range player was D'Angelo Russell, who is inefficient as hell.

Kenny would coach circles around Nash. It's not even close. But KD and Kyrie are a pair of clowns who don't want to be coached, play team oriented basketball, or win. They're just here to have fun hooping at the fans' expense.

This is why they really signed here, so they can dick around without any scrutiny. If KD was on the Knicks and he played the way he played during a first round sweep, or if Kyrie said the things that he said following a sweep, they wouldn't be able to even show their faces in public. They would be run out of town.

I'm not spending a dime on this team until Steve Nash is gone and Joe Tsai wakes up. The Nets are a terrible product.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#530 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:50 pm

Read on Twitter


a guy who put in years of work and study to become a head coach.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#531 » by Gooner » Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:55 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
Ball movement was a little better but it was basically chuck up as many threes as you can regardless of whether you're making them and then never make an adjustment when they're not falling...

I'd rather have Kenny, but again, given his own flaws, unless he's changed philosophies I don't think he would be the answer either...

That's true, but I think that's partly a function of how bad the talent on those rosters was. They had to follow the analytics, because they lacked super efficient mid range players.


Exactly, our best mid range player was D'Angelo Russell, who is inefficient as hell.

Kenny would coach circles around Nash. It's not even close. But KD and Kyrie are a pair of clowns who don't want to be coached, play team oriented basketball, or win. They're just here to have fun hooping at the fans' expense.

This is why they really signed here, so they can dick around without any scrutiny. If KD was on the Knicks and he played the way he played during a first round sweep, or if Kyrie said the things that he said following a sweep, they wouldn't be able to even show their faces in public. They would be run out of town.

I'm not spending a dime on this team until Steve Nash is gone and Joe Tsai wakes up. The Nets are a terrible product.


I don't think Nets are ver gonna win the title with Nash. They have talent, KD, Kyrie, SImmons and Harris could be a great foundation for success, but I just can't see that guy coaching a team to a title. Basketball gods won't let that happen. :lol:
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#532 » by gigantes » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:57 pm

Gooner wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:That's true, but I think that's partly a function of how bad the talent on those rosters was. They had to follow the analytics, because they lacked super efficient mid range players.

Exactly, our best mid range player was D'Angelo Russell, who is inefficient as hell.

Kenny would coach circles around Nash. It's not even close. But KD and Kyrie are a pair of clowns who don't want to be coached, play team oriented basketball, or win. They're just here to have fun hooping at the fans' expense.

This is why they really signed here, so they can dick around without any scrutiny. If KD was on the Knicks and he played the way he played during a first round sweep, or if Kyrie said the things that he said following a sweep, they wouldn't be able to even show their faces in public. They would be run out of town.

I'm not spending a dime on this team until Steve Nash is gone and Joe Tsai wakes up. The Nets are a terrible product.

I don't think Nets are ver gonna win the title with Nash. They have talent, KD, Kyrie, SImmons and Harris could be a great foundation for success, but I just can't see that guy coaching a team to a title. Basketball gods won't let that happen. :lol:

^ agree with most ^

Hiring Nash for a win-now team was pretty much the hallmark of... something being WAY the fluff off.

Even if Marks started with Nash instead of Kenny, at least it would have made a modicum of sense. Because that way, by the time Marks decided to jettison the original plan for big name sharpshooters, he'd at least have a legit-ish HC with 3-4 years of working experience.

Let's also not forget the primary reason why Nash was hired in the first place (and no, I disagree that it was sheerly cronyism)-- it was to be a 'no fuss,' compliant extension of Marks himself, standing right on the sidelines. By comparison, we all know Kenny Atkinson at this point, a strong (if reserved in public) personality, who has a load of beliefs about how to do things the right way.

For sure just my opinion at this point, but I believe Marks simply couldn't handle that over the long haul, and opted for the infinitely softer, gentler, yes-man in Steve Nash, someone he knew and felt sure would always fall *way* more in line like Kenny. Plus willingly bend over for the big-name stars, of course.

Marks to me either needs to go back to Pop School, or to demonstrate that he's learned from his colossal series of terrible decisions the past few years. Lately he seems too much invested in saving face, tripling-down, and justifying his now hefty paycheck, pandering to an owner's chronic desire for a title, resultant in nothing more than a high-end treadmill, at the end of the day. One savaged by lost, future picks and trade-swaps blown out the door.

Like-- Billy / Mikhael / Dmitri... is that just you, hiding behind the Marks mask?

***

Btw, speaking about Rob Williams (earlier), I'm still kinda cringing about how the Celt's med staff / trainers brought him back so quickly from having meniscus tissue removed, and now *every* game it's a total crapshoot whether draining the knee will do any good at all, whether getting enough deep-tissue massage, blood-therapy will help, and whether working through a level of knee pain that nobody would normally entertain is actually worth it in the long run.

IMO Isaiah was right to tweak these guys, like he did a little earlier.
I mean yeah, I can understand hardass, oldschool Danny Ainge perpetrating this shizzle, but Brad Stevens...?

Maybe it just shows that every team is a complete bag of idiots when it comes to a particular area.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#533 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:40 am

Curry is clearly better than Durant at this point in their careers. Curry sent Boston packing while we got swept. That speaks volumes.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#534 » by gigantes » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:04 am

*^(#@RAO*(&@#$IAOIYASF*&@!$

FUUUU.... UUUU.. UUU... DAMMIT!!!
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#535 » by GTR11 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 am

MrDollarBills wrote:Curry is clearly better than Durant at this point in their careers. Curry sent Boston packing while we got swept. That speaks volumes.


There's one thing that separates greats from good players. It's their mental approach. KD and Kyrie will never ever get to the point where LBJ and Curry are. Them guys just notch above.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#536 » by GTR11 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:02 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=7cV5kPsPGN7sHtTH3HZbXg

This is what makes sport greatest watch ever. I'm so exited to see what WC going look like next year. LAC, GSW, Grizz, Luka and Joker all will have that next level of competitive spirit going.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#537 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:12 am

GTR11 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Curry is clearly better than Durant at this point in their careers. Curry sent Boston packing while we got swept. That speaks volumes.


There's one thing that separates greats from good players. It's their mental approach. KD and Kyrie will never ever get to the point where LBJ and Curry are. Them guys just notch above.


Yep. KD is mentally weak, Kyrie could care less.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#538 » by Gooner » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:51 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Curry is clearly better than Durant at this point in their careers. Curry sent Boston packing while we got swept. That speaks volumes.


There's one thing that separates greats from good players. It's their mental approach. KD and Kyrie will never ever get to the point where LBJ and Curry are. Them guys just notch above.


Yep. KD is mentally weak, Kyrie could care less.


Warriors winning another title is a reality check for KD. He won the championship with the Warriors, but he is not a part of their championship core. He has no business walking around talking about championship habits until he wins one as a fundamental part of the team.

The fact that he always defends himself on twitter shows that he doesn't really get it. He believes that Curry gets too much credit at his expense, and I don't think he was too far away from saying something disrespectful about him on twitter few days ago. What he doesn't understand is that nobody is questioning his skillset. It's his championship pedigree that's being questioned. Whether KD likes it or not, he is still unproven in that regard. That's what puts Steph ahead of him, but he thinks he is superior because he is a better iso player. That's his mentality.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#539 » by MGrand15 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:43 pm

These KD narratives are honestly the dumbest thing in the world. Everyone complains about Stephen A and First Take and that type of media. That's basically what dominates 95% of NBA discussion. Very weird stuff.

Look at how LBJ and Curry performed when their supporting casts weren't healthy. Basketball is a team game. The whole organization top to bottom matters.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2021-22 Season Thread 

Post#540 » by Soca » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 pm

Gooner wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
There's one thing that separates greats from good players. It's their mental approach. KD and Kyrie will never ever get to the point where LBJ and Curry are. Them guys just notch above.


Yep. KD is mentally weak, Kyrie could care less.


Warriors winning another title is a reality check for KD. He won the championship with the Warriors, but he is not a part of their championship core. He has no business walking around talking about championship habits until he wins one as a fundamental part of the team.

The fact that he always defends himself on twitter shows that he doesn't really get it. He believes that Curry gets too much credit at his expense, and I don't think he was too far away from saying something disrespectful about him on twitter few days ago. What he doesn't understand is that nobody is questioning his skillset. It's his championship pedigree that's being questioned. Whether KD likes it or not, he is still unproven in that regard. That's what puts Steph ahead of him, but he thinks he is superior because he is a better iso player. That's his mentality.


You have my curiosity here. What did he say?

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