Is it possible peak Magic was closer to peak Jordan than conventional wisdom suggests?

ceiling raiser · Post #1 » by **ceiling raiser** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:12 pm

The thread about Squared's 80s-90s RAPM got me thinking about this a lot.

It seems the prevailing belief is that Magic's peak is a couple of rungs below the GOATs. But what if he was actually very close to Jordan in impact?

If this is the case, I think he has a very strong top 5 GOAT case, even with 12 (well 11 quality) years. One short of Russell.

What do you think?

prolific passer · Post #2 » by **prolific passer** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:21 pm

They won all the mvps from 87-91 and the one who lost out was the runner up basically.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #3 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:52 pm

Don't agree on couple of rungs. I mean some may see it that way but I see them as quite close offensively(even in the playoffs where MJ sort of set himself apart) then obviously behind defensively. Overall in their top 2-3 seasons its at most one rung. Part of this is Magic was among the most playoff resilient players of all time. I don't think this makes him top 5 all time though. Still in the 6-8 range.

Jaivl · Post #4 » by **Jaivl** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:59 pm

Yeah I think he would be on that top 5 tier... which goes as low as #9 for me right now, #10 if counting Magic. I have him #10 already, so it's possible he doesn't even rise for me lol.

Proxy · Post #5 » by **Proxy** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:01 pm

I think this could be true for a few players, but we really won't know until better masurements for them become available.

For example, I feel someone like Oscar Robertson would look like an RAPM god for the 60s(might even look more impressive than Magic or Bird when I think about those teams and his WOWY results), if we had that data and i'm sure he'd be viewed more optimistically with that(not saying he'd be some Jordan level player).

Magic would probably be viewed at that level by more people though yeah

TheGOATRises007 · Post #6 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:32 pm

Not sure how much those numbers are verifiable compared to other metrics considering the limited sample size and lesser data overall for the era.

Either way, I don't think Magic is a couple of rungs below others in GOAT peaks. He has a top 10 peak to me clearly and arguably a top 5 peak.

No-more-rings · Post #7 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:41 pm

One would have to believe one or both of these things, for that to be true.

1. Jordan’s defense is very overrated

and/or

2. Magic was clearly better as an offensive player.

We can debate how good Jordan’s defense really was. He was excellent and usually disciplined, but don’t think he was anywhere near an anchor. Still he was clearly a lot better at that than Magic. Magic certainly has a case for offense, but I can’t imagine it’s anything significant.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #8 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:04 am

The top 15 peaks are all on par. Anything else is largely hyperbole

LukaTheGOAT · Post #9 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:27 am

With 2 or 3 more years similar to his ’91 season he would probably bs in that Duncan, Wilt, etc. group fighting for a top 5 spot I would argue.

So if you boosted his peak to around Jordan leve he would definitely be there easily for me.

70sFan · Post #10 » by **70sFan** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:39 am

An Unbiased Fan wrote:The top 15 peaks are all on par. Anything else is largely hyperbole

This

scrabbarista · Post #11 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:54 pm

Jaivl wrote:Yeah I think he would be on that top 5 tier... which goes as low as #9 for me right now, #10 if counting Magic. I have him #10 already, so it's possible he doesn't even rise for me lol.

Where do you have Bird?

EDIT: Also, did you mean peaks or careers? I was thinking careers, but I may have misunderstood.

No-more-rings · Post #12 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:10 pm

An Unbiased Fan wrote:The top 15 peaks are all on par. Anything else is largely hyperbole

Not really though. The seperation definitely adds up between 1 and 15.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #13 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:45 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
An Unbiased Fan wrote:The top 15 peaks are all on par. Anything else is largely hyperbole

Not really though. The seperation definitely adds up between 1 and 15.

The problem is we don't really have any perfect way of measuring it and whether we consider a peak to be a series, a playoff run or a full season and how winning/losing impacts how we view a player. I think within the context of a full season it does get closer. I will say that had Wilt just been a 65% ft shooter on average he'd probably be head and shoulders above some years.