Is Andrew Wiggins the worst second option of all time on a title team?

[ChaseDown]

Wiggins made every cent of that contract for this year with all those incentive bonuses I bet on that. Definitely far from the “worst”.

[Cavsfansince84]

Wiggins averaged 18.3ppg on 51.5% ts.
In the 75 finals Barry's second leading scorer was Jamaal Wilkes who averaged 11.5ppg on 37% ts.

[Ursusamericanus]

Who was Hakeem's 2nd option in 1994? Vernon Maxwell shooting 36% from the field overall and 23% from 3... I'll go with that. This thread is an insult to Wiggins.

[skones]

2011 Mavericks had Jason Terry. That has to be worse.

In the sense of "2nd option" I think Terry was better just given that I think he was a flat out better scorer than Wiggins. As for Wiggins being the 2nd option on this team? That's a nope for me. The Dubs did it by committee.

[vagelis]

Wiggins all around performance and impact with scoring, rebounds, steals and blocks in finals reminded Scottie Pippen.

Their athletic ability is comparable too

[Bank Shot]

Tony Parker in 2003 is the answer. That version of TP wouldn't even be a top 5 player on the Warriors. In the playoffs, he averaged 14.7 PPG and 3.5 APG on 46.8 TS% while playing zero D and getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the finals.

[DonaldSanders]

Yeah the Warriors didn't have a traditional 2nd option guy. Thinking about the chips since 1980, I noted the cases where the options seemed similar:

Man I didn't realize how balanced that '82 Lakers team was until I looked at the Finals stats, wow!

I think Pau Gasol is also very similar to some of the cases you have marked. 2019 Siakam and 1999 Robinson are stronger #2 options IMO... and 2022 Wiggins might be on par with him.

Kinda interesting, a better comp to 2022 Steph/Wiggins than I would have thought: Pau averaged less than I had remembered -- the pace was slightly slower, but not by much and Pau averaged 18.6ppg both Finals series. I'd say he was a bit more of a legit 2nd option, where Wiggins is cleaning up a lot more for the Warriors -- but the gap is less than I expected.

And yes, our 1980s team were stacked! It's why I have Larry higher on my All-Time list ahead of Magic and Kareem.

Yeah those early 80s Laker teams are just unbelievably stacked. Not a single 20ppg scorer for the series but they had SIX guys averaging over 13ppg! Fricken Bob McAdoo as a 4th option in his later years, what a crazy team.

[CobraCommander]

KD started this thread

Wiggins a stud -

Lock the thread

[LAL1947]

Tony Parker in 2003 is the answer. That version of TP wouldn't even be a top 5 player on the Warriors. In the playoffs, he averaged 14.7 PPG and 3.5 APG on 46.8 TS%

Quoting the stats like that seems a little unfair. The Spurs were a defensive team and matches involving them generally involved less possessions per game.

Playoff stats per 100 Possessions:
Parker 2003: 22.8 points, 5.5 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.0 turnovers
Wiggins 2022: 23.4 points, 2.6 assists, 10.6 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.9 turnovers

Duncan 2003: 30.6 points, 6.6 assists, 19.1 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 4.1 blocks, 3.9 turnovers
Curry 2022: 38.4 points, 8.3 assists, 7.4 rebounds, 1.9 steals, 0.5 blocks, 3.7 turnovers

Looks like Warriors fans may have more of a case to put Steph in the conversation with Duncan than with Kobe.

[HMFFL]

He wasn't the second option. He was the defense's first option. Huge difference.

Yes, people are becoming annoying classifying Wiggins as Steph's #2 guy. The agenda is clear.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[timO]

Kobe 00

Hamilton 04

oneal 06

Terry 11

Duncan 14

[dockingsched]

Wiggins with 11500 points in the league, more than Kawhi Leonard and close to Jimmy Butler who are 4 years older.
But people think he is not a good offensive player.

People cannot realize what a players tools are.
Wiggins is more talented than many players who people consider superstars.

Wiggins averaged 18.5 ppg in finals without plays for him.
If Wiggins gets plays for him he can easily go to 25ppg again.
But there is an hierarchy in Warriors which had Thompson to get plays and screens and Wiggins not.
It is not about how talented Wiggins is.
It is about the Warriors hierarchy and the trio of Curry, Thompson, Green that cannot break for another player not named Durant.

50% of his 2’s and 90% of his 3s are assisted. If he had more plays called for him and had to actually create, his scoring would go down. He needs better players around him that get plays called for them instead of him, that draw doubles and get him open shots.

[DonaldSanders]

He wasn't the second option. He was the defense's first option. Huge difference.

Yes, people are becoming annoying classifying Wiggins as Steph's #2 guy. The agenda is clear.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Er... what is the agenda? I think there are some semantic issues here, a lot of people are thinking of second option as a #2 level player on the title team, not just a 2nd option on offense.

A lot of us on the Warriors genuinely think Wiggins is the #2 guy overall now, closely followed by Draymond. The Warriors may not have the strongest #2 but we have a super deep team, any Warrior fan will tell you that. There's a solid drop-off from Steph but then tons of solid talent.

Look up advanced stats for the playoffs, Wiggins has a really clear case for being considered the #2 guy on the Warriors overall.

[LAL1947]

I think Pau Gasol is also very similar to some of the cases you have noted. 2019 Siakam and 1999 Robinson are stronger #2 options IMO... and 2022 Wiggins might be on par with him. Yet I feel Wiggins may have provided more overall impact than Pau through the quality of his defense on the opposing team's best player.

Kinda interesting, a better comp to 2022 Steph/Wiggins than I would have thought: Pau averaged less than I had remembered -- the pace was slightly slower, but not by much and Pau averaged 18.6ppg both Finals series. I'd say he was a bit more of a legit 2nd option, where Wiggins is cleaning up a lot more for the Warriors -- but the gap is less than I expected.

Thanks for considering the point and accepting it too. Quite a few people scoff when I say that here because they don't even want to consider it... and then end up accusing me of trying to make Kobe look better, haha.

[Woodsanity]

Off the top of my head, I actually can't recall a worse second option on a title team.

If he truly is the worst second option of all time on a title team, the gravity of Curry is even more powerful than originally thought.

The only title in recent memory that can compare is Dirk's, but Terry was better offensively than Wiggins.

He held Tatum the first option to 13 pts 6-18....

[SOA]

Andrew Wiggins was the second leading scorer. He averaged the most rebounds. And he guarded the other team's best player. Not sure how you could say he was the worst second option.

There are many teams that have worse stats or responsibilities than that.

Siakam in 2019 averaged 20/8/4 ad not nearly the defensive presence.

Andre Iguodala averaged less point and rebounds while guarding LeBron in 15.

Kawhi averaged 18/6/2 against LeBron in 14.

Terry averaged 18/3/2 in 2011.

Gasol in 09 put up 18/9/2....

Antoine Walker put up 14/6 in 06. Shaq put up 14/10 in 06.

Tony Parker pit up 14/4 in 2003.

Pippen put up 17/7/5 in 98. 16/8/5 in 96.

Maxwell put up 14/3/3 in 94.

Dennis Johnson put up 18/5 in 1984.

Jamal Wilkes put up 12/10 with the Warriors in 1975.

[cam24thomas]

1994 NBA Finals PPG:
Olajuwon 26.9
Maxwell 13.4
Horry 10.3
Cassell 10.0

[cupcakesnake]

The concept of a "second option" can be a square peg in a round hole for some teams. Yes there are teams where a scoring/playmaking/usage hierarchy is clear (Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Gasol, Luka/Brunson, Embiid/Harden, Giannis/Middleton). But plenty of teams aren't really like that.

Steph was the clear offensive centerpiece in Golden State, and Draymond is the defensive centerpiece. Then you have Poole and Klay getting up more shots per possession than Wiggins, and clearly more emphasized in the offense. On offense he clearly lived off scraps (close outs and spots ups), and on defense he was sometimes their best player.

He ended up having the most consistent 2-way run of any Warrior not named Curry. Does that make him the "second option"? Maybe. Is it an interesting discussion or helpful to understand why the Warriors are good? No. Ultimately it ends up a low-tier way to measure how impressive the "#1 option" was. If you want to understand Curry or the Warriors, there are better questions to ask than WHO IS ROBIN?

[Rich Michmond]

He was kinda like Jamaal Wilkes on Rick Barry's Warriors: undersized as a power forward, crashed the boards, played tough defense, and could score when necessary (on moderate efficiency). Both teams had no real offensive star other than their leader, and Wiggins/Wilkes were probably the second most important players overall behind Curry/Barry.

[og15]

Wiggins with 11500 points in the league, more than Kawhi Leonard and close to Jimmy Butler who are 4 years older.
But people think he is not a good offensive player.

People cannot realize what a players tools are.
Wiggins is more talented than many players who people consider superstars.

Wiggins averaged 18.5 ppg in finals without plays for him.
If Wiggins gets plays for him he can easily go to 25ppg again.
But there is an hierarchy in Warriors which had Thompson to get plays and screens and Wiggins not.
It is not about how talented Wiggins is.
It is about the Warriors hierarchy and the trio of Curry, Thompson, Green that cannot break for another player not named Durant.

To the bolded, such as?

Why would a team want Wiggins scoring 25 ppg? His defense would not be as good, you maybe don't get the same rebounding activity, and he's not an efficient enough scorer or a playmaker to make it positive. That's how you take him from useful complimentary player to high counting stats with little to no impact player. Even in the finals, he wasn't particularly efficient with his scoring, but it was good enough for the situation.

He had a TS% of 53.5% or lower in 5/6 games, 4 of those were 50.7% or lower and he took as many FGA as he scored points in 3/6 games. Overall he shot 45/30 and scored 18.3 ppg with 16.8 FGA and 2.2 FTA and committed 1.8 turnovers. There's nothing particularly impressive in isolation any that, it was enough to get the job done, but in a different situation or team it would be more than inadequate.

He wasn't the second option. He was the defense's first option. Huge difference.

Yes, people are becoming annoying classifying Wiggins as Steph's #2 guy. The agenda is clear.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Er... what is the agenda? I think there are some semantic issues here, a lot of people are thinking of second option as a #2 level player on the title team, not just a 2nd option on offense.

A lot of us on the Warriors genuinely think Wiggins is the #2 guy overall now, closely followed by Draymond. The Warriors may not have the strongest #2 but we have a super deep team, any Warrior fan will tell you that. There's a solid drop-off from Steph but then tons of solid talent.

Look up advanced stats for the playoffs, Wiggins has a really clear case for being considered the #2 guy on the Warriors overall.

Second option is not the same as second best player. If OP wanted to say second best player, they could have, but since the OP said second option, mentioned the impact of Curry's gravity, cited Terry and said offensively, clearly this was about offensive option. If people start arguing inconsistent with the actual thread question, then it muddies the discussion.