OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc.

[HighRyzer83]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

[aq_ua]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

[HarthorneWingo]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

I tried to tell 'em. The entire thing is a scam.

[stuporman]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

You're blaming Biden for inflation?



So he is responsible for the thousands of factors stretching back decades and the tens of thousands of individuals who made decisions over that time resulting in the circumstances were acting on his orders given through time travel I guess?

When people blame Presidents for things like inflation or the price of gas it shows a lack of economic understanding at the least or partisan cuckery at worst. Virtually all politicians in both parties over decades coupled with capitalist interest to profit at any social cost brought the economy to this point.

[HarthorneWingo]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

You're blaming Biden for inflation?



So he is responsible for the thousands of factors stretching back decades and the tens of thousands of individuals who made decisions over that time resulting in the circumstances were acting on his orders given through time travel I guess?

When people blame Presidents for things like inflation or the price of gas it shows a lack of economic understanding at the least or partisan cuckery at worst. Virtually all politicians in both parties over decades coupled with capitalist interest to profit at any social cost brought the economy to this point.

Didn't you know that Biden caused the inflation in Europe too?

[Rastas]

I'm pretty sure it was Biden who planted the Virus in Wuhan also .......... one of Trump's boy's told me.

[knickabocker88]

This (Inflation) was going to happen regardless.

I do want to say, if you're looking to buy a home. I am pretty sure in a few years we will go back to a near zero percent fed rate based on the minutes.

[N Y K]

BTC under 13-17K would be a good entry point to start building a position?

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

Say more please. I'd like to understand why Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies (say ETH) have no economic value.

[HarthorneWingo]

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

Say more please. I'd like to understand why Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies (say ETH) have no economic value.

So you want aq_ua to prove a negative? Nice try.

Why not just tell us what economic value it has instead?

[N Y K]

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

Say more please. I'd like to understand why Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies (say ETH) have no economic value.

So you want aq_ua to prove a negative? Nice try.

Why not just tell us what economic value it has instead?

Prove a negative? I don't know what that means.

I'm just trying to understand the statement he made. I haven't offered any opinion about any cryptocurrency's economic value, so that "why not just tell us...?" question is not for me, sir.

[HarthorneWingo]

Say more please. I'd like to understand why Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies (say ETH) have no economic value.

So you want aq_ua to prove a negative? Nice try.

Why not just tell us what economic value it has instead?

Prove a negative? I don't know what that means.

I'm just trying to understand the statement he made. I haven't offered any opinion about any cryptocurrency's economic value, so that "why not just tell us...?" question is not for me, sir.

Therein lies the problem.

How do you prove the absence of something, for instance, like crypto having no value? How do you prove that God doesn’t exist? Same thing.

[N Y K]

So you want aq_ua to prove a negative? Nice try.

Why not just tell us what economic value it has instead?

Prove a negative? I don't know what that means.

I'm just trying to understand the statement he made. I haven't offered any opinion about any cryptocurrency's economic value, so that "why not just tell us...?" question is not for me, sir.

Therein lies the problem.

How do you prove the absence of something, for instance, like crypto having no value? How do you prove that God doesn’t exist? Same thing.

Hmmm... I can take a stab at this.

I guess we'd need to start with how you're defining "value". If we're talking about the easier definition and want to use monetary value, pick currency and check price. Problem solved! aq_ua alluded to this with the second half of their post about value purely being a function of what the next price someone is willing to pay for the thing.

Economic value? How are we defining economic value? That specifically confused me. Maybe there's something more philosophical here that's worth discussing (so still feel free to let me know what you meant by this @aq_ua).

Is the real question about intrinsic and extrinsic value? IDK, so I asked.

[N Y K]

It definitely could be, but I don't think we are at bottom yet at all. This admin sucks and they will absolutely raise rates to slow inflation that they caused. This will plummet the market even further to include crypto. Buying at bottom prices is how many get rich.

Also, I'm just not a BTC believer. The utility of it is outdated generation. There are too many 3rd gen layer 1 alt coins that will pump like 100x, after the bottom. To be fair no one really knows when the bottom is, probably when inflation is under control and this admin is gone.

There is zero economic or mathematical basis to say the value of Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency for that matter) is greater than zero. So, the only way to assign it a “value” is to blindly bet that someone will assign it a higher “value” in the future. No one can tell you what the right bet is, and they’re lying if they tell you otherwise.

I tried to tell 'em. The entire thing is a scam.

Say more please. Seems like you've got an opinion here about the value of cryptocurrencies. Or is this "scam" position "too negative" to explain too?

[Clyde_Style]

Cryptocurrencies are not assets. They are purely speculative gambles based on the Greater Fool Theory.

It became a fantasy world driven strictly by greed. It does not raise capital for ventures. It serves no purpose other than to fuel delusional narratives about value that doesn’t exist. The notion that decoupling from centralized banking systems was an inherent positive that would make it a safe store of value was merely a BS tale used to run up prices and then cash out on the public that got suckered into the scam. Crypto will make a comeback someday perhaps, but the trust is gone so the distance between today and zero is very little. Anyone who pushes back against this is merely arguing from the point of view of speculation which is fine. If you want to gamble on an entry point, good luck, but do it knowing Bitcoin could lose 99% of its value. There is no there there.

[N Y K]

Cryptocurrencies are not assets. They are purely speculative gambles based on the Greater Fool Theory.

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

[Clyde_Style]

Cryptocurrencies are not assets. They are purely speculative gambles based on the Greater Fool Theory.

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

Why are they not assets?

They are only assets based on their trading price being exchangeable into other currencies. That is their sole basis for being called an asset in your porfolio.

The stock market is used to raise capital for actual businesses. Yes, some businesses that do that may be scams, but that does not change the inherent basis for investing in shares of a public company.

Other commodities have some degree of finitude. If there were 500 Billion tons of Gold available it would not be worth much.

Etc etc. Crypto has no value store other than consensus reality. IOW, the only thing backing crypto’s value is faith. The trust factor is gone, because it was all mythological BS about being a more honest decentralized system when the systems were manipulated by shysters, equity ballers and sovereign funds. And maybe a handful of the bitcoin billionaires who re-leveraged their positions to become manipulators in their own right. It’s all smoke and mirrors

And that is the great irony of all the annoying crypto bro nonsense about alternative virtual nation states. The bottom has fallen out because the only way it will ever be legit is to become regulated. Without that it is just a game of who blinks first

[N Y K]

Cryptocurrencies are not assets. They are purely speculative gambles based on the Greater Fool Theory.

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

Why are they not assets?

They are only assets based on their trading price being exchangeable into other currencies. That is their sole basis for being called an asset in your porfolio.

The stock market is used to raise capital for actual businesses. Yes, some businesses that do that may be scams, but that does not change the inherent basis for investing in shares of a public company.

Other commodities have some degree of finitude. If there were 500 Billion tons of Gold available it would not be worth much.

Etc etc. Crypto has no value store other than consensus reality.

Thanks for this. Do you think blockchain technologies are valuable/are assets? Cryptography features? smart contract features?

[N Y K]

Cryptocurrencies are not assets. They are purely speculative gambles based on the Greater Fool Theory.

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

Why are they not assets?

They are only assets based on their trading price being exchangeable into other currencies. That is their sole basis for being called an asset in your porfolio.

The stock market is used to raise capital for actual businesses. Yes, some businesses that do that may be scams, but that does not change the inherent basis for investing in shares of a public company.

Other commodities have some degree of finitude. If there were 500 Billion tons of Gold available it would not be worth much.

Etc etc. Crypto has no value store other than consensus reality. IOW, the only thing backing crypto’s value is faith. The trust factor is gone, because it was all mythological BS about being a more honest decentralized system when the systems were manipulated by shysters, equity ballers and sovereign funds. And maybe a handful of the bitcoin billionaires who re-leveraged their positions to become manipulators in their own right. It’s all smoke and mirrors

And that is the great irony of all the annoying crypto bro nonsense about alternative virtual nation states. The bottom has fallen out because the only way it will ever be legit is to become regulated. Without that it is just a game of who blinks first

What backs the value of other modern world currencies?

[Clyde_Style]

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

Why are they not assets?

They are only assets based on their trading price being exchangeable into other currencies. That is their sole basis for being called an asset in your porfolio.

The stock market is used to raise capital for actual businesses. Yes, some businesses that do that may be scams, but that does not change the inherent basis for investing in shares of a public company.

Other commodities have some degree of finitude. If there were 500 Billion tons of Gold available it would not be worth much.

Etc etc. Crypto has no value store other than consensus reality.

Thanks for this. Do you think blockchain technologies are valuable/are assets? Cryptography features? smart contract features?

Blockchains and Smart Contracts will matter, but it is very possible they will never matter in the way the mythologizers want them to be. Think logistics. Think joint venture transactional record keeping. IOW, it may help with some aspects of transactional integrity, but it does not necessarily change that it will probably mostly be in the service of business processes that have already existing for a long time and are already automated or becoming more so

AI is a much bigger force overall. That’s what will change our realities the most.

But for all the guys who create systems built on crazy BS like buying an expensive pair of sneakers to make money from walking are mostly clever ponzi schemers. People have wound themselves up over stuff like that and self-governed meta spaces. Don’t ever forget that most of it is going to developed to exploit human addiction to technology using game theory, not fresh alternatives to doing business as usual that will save the planet from environmental disaster and the wars and famines that are looming. The metaverse will make a new wealthy class from its exploits no doubt, but it will be mostly meaningless BS dressed up in fancy justifications to hide the truth that they will mostly be used to exploit our attention for profit

Online community is still driven by systems like the one we’re using here. Reddit is brilliant in part because it is not obsfuscated by laborious nonsense about the means towards the end of sharing opinions. But every decade there will be another 1939 World’s Fair that predicts the future and much of it will be a big hustle that makes us more gullible towards shiny objects and less human

[Clyde_Style]

That might be true, I guess I just wonder why?

Why are they not assets?

They are only assets based on their trading price being exchangeable into other currencies. That is their sole basis for being called an asset in your porfolio.

The stock market is used to raise capital for actual businesses. Yes, some businesses that do that may be scams, but that does not change the inherent basis for investing in shares of a public company.

Other commodities have some degree of finitude. If there were 500 Billion tons of Gold available it would not be worth much.

Etc etc. Crypto has no value store other than consensus reality. IOW, the only thing backing crypto’s value is faith. The trust factor is gone, because it was all mythological BS about being a more honest decentralized system when the systems were manipulated by shysters, equity ballers and sovereign funds. And maybe a handful of the bitcoin billionaires who re-leveraged their positions to become manipulators in their own right. It’s all smoke and mirrors

And that is the great irony of all the annoying crypto bro nonsense about alternative virtual nation states. The bottom has fallen out because the only way it will ever be legit is to become regulated. Without that it is just a game of who blinks first

What backs the value of other modern world currencies?

There’s a big difference between a crypto wallet and a treasury bond. People like to argue that state issued paper is inherently worthless or that it is a consensus reality that the rest of the world invests in U.S. Treasury Bonds as a safe haven, but until the U.S. defaults on its obligations it is a system with regulatory controls that allow you to transact in the real world and have recourse in legal ways when you are owed an obligation based on those currencies. There is no such infrastructure for crypto. The myth was decentralization was a strength, but without regulatory oversight it became a weakness. There is no systemic backstop for the value of Bitcoin other than speculators trying to time when to buy low