What would it take for you to put Curry on Duncan's all-time level?

[Kobe187]

1 more Championship with a FMVP would put him there, both would have 5 Championships with 1 franchise where they were impact players for their respective teams.

[DoctorX]

He's already past him.

As soon as Curry got over his ankle issues that plagued him in his year 2 and 3, he turned the GSW franchise around. Not long after he won his first championship in 2015 and then had his 2016 RS which is the best RS performance of all time. In 2017 he had Durant and took an intentional step back. Durant leaves and Curry immediately goes back to scoring 32ppg. Noting in the second half of the season he averaged 37ppg when the team's seeding came into jeopardy after they went on a L streak while he sat out. This year was an awkward year with major roster changes and injuries, but he started the season as the favorite for MVP going into December. From the trajectory of his career, it's quite obvious to me we lost many all time peak seasons from Curry from him taking a step back for Durant. Curry was a much bigger force than Duncan could ever dream of. He has 4 titles out of the last 7 seasons he's played since his first title in 2015.

Your only argument is his scoring was great and that's why he's better than Duncan. You other argument is because he won 4 in 7 years is also flawed. My response to that is Duncan won 4 in 8 years so it's very similar except Duncan didn't do it with a super team. The '03 title run he had was more impressive than any of Curry's title runs.

[WarriorGM]

Not in an argument against Tim Duncan. Stephs a great player but he is not on Tim's level

I'm unconvinced of that and I don't think there is data out there that predominantly says that.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, Tim Duncan never needed another top 15 all time player in his prime to come and help him win 2 rings. Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

[DoctorX]

People brining up two-way play ignore how much better Curry is at offense than Duncan was. Not saying Curry can be ranked as high as Duncan (at least not yet) but Curry is a level above almost everyone all-time on the offensive side of the floor

Curry was not that much better than Duncan on offense where Curry was a 30 point scorer and Duncan was a 10 point scorer. The gap is actually a lot smaller than that. Duncan was consistently a guy getting you 20 are more in his prime and during the playoffs he had series where averaged 30 a game. He just didn't do it often because he didn't have to win games since he could impact the game also on the defensive end to get the wins.

Also when you mean offense it's not just scoring points. Duncan was getting doubled and tripled in the post which lead to opportunities for guys like Bowen to get wide open shots along with Manu and Parker getting easy buckets. The Spurs whole entire offense was built through him during the first 4 title runs.

[Slim Charlez]

I'm unconvinced of that and I don't think there is data out there that predominantly says that.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, Tim Duncan never needed another top 15 all time player in his prime to come and help him win 2 rings. Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Ginobili the best player in the league? Am I reading this right?

[Slim Charlez]

He's already past him.

As soon as Curry got over his ankle issues that plagued him in his year 2 and 3, he turned the GSW franchise around. Not long after he won his first championship in 2015 and then had his 2016 RS which is the best RS performance of all time. In 2017 he had Durant and took an intentional step back. Durant leaves and Curry immediately goes back to scoring 32ppg. Noting in the second half of the season he averaged 37ppg when the team's seeding came into jeopardy after they went on a L streak while he sat out. This year was an awkward year with major roster changes and injuries, but he started the season as the favorite for MVP going into December. From the trajectory of his career, it's quite obvious to me we lost many all time peak seasons from Curry from him taking a step back for Durant. Curry was a much bigger force than Duncan could ever dream of. He has 4 titles out of the last 7 seasons he's played since his first title in 2015.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, he didn't need 2 of the best 3 players on the opposite team in the finals to be injured to win a title, he didn't need another top 5 guy to join him to win 2 after choking in the finals. Context people.

[DoctorX]

I'm unconvinced of that and I don't think there is data out there that predominantly says that.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, Tim Duncan never needed another top 15 all time player in his prime to come and help him win 2 rings. Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Actually he did have to take part in rebuild which occurred from fall of '01 to fall of '04. After the Spurs got swept by the Lakers in '01 David Robinson was way past his prime. He fell off greatly after '01. The Spurs had 0 all-star players during that 3 years playing with Duncan. They weren't even projected to be a top 4 team in the west heading into the '01-'02 season and most experts had them being around 5-7. That team's second leading scorer was 36 year old David Robinson averaging 12.2 points a game and it's third leading scorer was a 32 year old Steve Smith who averaged 11.6 points a game. Duncan lead that team to the second best record in the West and ended up winning his first MVP. Spurs added Parker and Manu during that stretch but it took them a full 3 years to develop. So yes Duncan did take part in a rebuild he was just that good that the Spurs could still win a ton of games off of his talent. It's why he won back to back MVPs during that stretch.

[DoctorX]

He's already past him.

As soon as Curry got over his ankle issues that plagued him in his year 2 and 3, he turned the GSW franchise around. Not long after he won his first championship in 2015 and then had his 2016 RS which is the best RS performance of all time. In 2017 he had Durant and took an intentional step back. Durant leaves and Curry immediately goes back to scoring 32ppg. Noting in the second half of the season he averaged 37ppg when the team's seeding came into jeopardy after they went on a L streak while he sat out. This year was an awkward year with major roster changes and injuries, but he started the season as the favorite for MVP going into December. From the trajectory of his career, it's quite obvious to me we lost many all time peak seasons from Curry from him taking a step back for Durant. Curry was a much bigger force than Duncan could ever dream of. He has 4 titles out of the last 7 seasons he's played since his first title in 2015.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, he didn't need 2 of the best 3 players on the opposite team in the finals to be injured to win a title, he didn't need another top 5 guy to join him to win 2 after choking in the finals. Context people.

He also didn't have to cry and beg Garnett or Dirk to join him after the Lakers swept him in '01 to finally beat them.

[LakersLegacy]

Longevity and another championship or 2

[JRoy]

Curry is an all time great but Duncan is the best at his position in history.

[Edrees]

Curry's peak is above even many of the ATG players. And, those who note that he has not had the sustained excellence of other ATG players, are also correct.

Let's not forget, however, that Curry was the first and only unanimous MVP in league history. In a time when Lebron, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, AD, Kawhi and CP3 were approaching or in the peak of their careers, Curry took every vote. That means something. His peak was unlike anything the league has seen...the titles earned over a relatively short career only affirm his excellence and impact. He's an ATG.

Also think of this...at .694, Curry's career playoff winning percentage is higher than every other ATG player in the league, some by over 10 pts. That may go down in time, but he has led absolutely dominant teams.

He has also led them to the lotto how many times as well? So that is that. It wouldn’t surprise me if at the end of his career he has a handful of non playoff appearances.

I mean I get people live in the moment, but anyone with proper context of the totality of careers right now would realize that he really isn’t close.

Do you want to answer your own question? I think you're using the term "led" loosely. Since 2012, when Curry came back from ankle surgery, Curry-led teams, with Steph healthy, have missed the playoffs once. Once. And in that season (19-20) they lost the play-in game. Our fact checkers have ruled on your post: FALSE.

You can't technically use missing the playoffs against Curry relative to other all time greats. Who knows how many people in the top 10 currently would have missed the playoffs more seasons if they had to do a play in tournament anytime they ended up 7th or 8th seed. Duncan in particular had a lot of seasons where they ended up 7th or 8th. Lots of chances for Duncan to miss the play offs if they had the play in rules when he played.

[JujitsuFlip]

He has also led them to the lotto how many times as well? So that is that. It wouldn’t surprise me if at the end of his career he has a handful of non playoff appearances.

I mean I get people live in the moment, but anyone with proper context of the totality of careers right now would realize that he really isn’t close.

Do you want to answer your own question? I think you're using the term "led" loosely. Since 2012, when Curry came back from ankle surgery, Curry-led teams, with Steph healthy, have missed the playoffs once. Once. And in that season (19-20) they lost the play-in game. Our fact checkers have ruled on your post: FALSE.

You can't technically use missing the playoffs against Curry relative to other all time greats. Who knows how many people in the top 10 currently would have missed the playoffs more seasons if they had to do a play in tournament anytime they ended up 7th or 8th seed. Duncan in particular had a lot of seasons where they ended up 7th or 8th. Lots of chances for Duncan to miss the play offs if they had the play in rules when he played.

Well that's flat out false, Spurs only once finished 7th or 8th while Timmy D played there.

[Edrees]

Do you want to answer your own question? I think you're using the term "led" loosely. Since 2012, when Curry came back from ankle surgery, Curry-led teams, with Steph healthy, have missed the playoffs once. Once. And in that season (19-20) they lost the play-in game. Our fact checkers have ruled on your post: FALSE.

You can't technically use missing the playoffs against Curry relative to other all time greats. Who knows how many people in the top 10 currently would have missed the playoffs more seasons if they had to do a play in tournament anytime they ended up 7th or 8th seed. Duncan in particular had a lot of seasons where they ended up 7th or 8th. Lots of chances for Duncan to miss the play offs if they had the play in rules when he played.

Well that's flat out false, Spurs only once finished 7th or 8th while Timmy D played there.

Guess you are right. Not sure why I remember it happening 3 times. The 2nd time I remembered was in 2017-2018, had Ginobli and Parker still on the team, so probably where I got confused.

Either way, that's 1 time he could have missed the playoffs if he had to do a play in tournament. That would cancel out Curry missing the playoffs for the one season he played and missed it because of play in tourmament rules.

Also my point still stands if other top 10 players got 7th-8th seed more than the one time Duncan did.

[FlyingArrow]

Curry's peak is above even many of the ATG players. And, those who note that he has not had the sustained excellence of other ATG players, are also correct.

Let's not forget, however, that Curry was the first and only unanimous MVP in league history. In a time when Lebron, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, AD, Kawhi and CP3 were approaching or in the peak of their careers, Curry took every vote. That means something. His peak was unlike anything the league has seen...the titles earned over a relatively short career only affirm his excellence and impact. He's an ATG.

Also think of this...at .694, Curry's career playoff winning percentage is higher than every other ATG player in the league, some by over 10 pts. That may go down in time, but he has led absolutely dominant teams.

He has also led them to the lotto how many times as well? So that is that. It wouldn’t surprise me if at the end of his career he has a handful of non playoff appearances.

I mean I get people live in the moment, but anyone with proper context of the totality of careers right now would realize that he really isn’t close.

Do you want to answer your own question? I think you're using the term "led" loosely. Since 2012, when Curry came back from ankle surgery, Curry-led teams, with Steph healthy, have missed the playoffs once. Once. And in that season (19-20) they lost the play-in game. Our fact checkers have ruled on your post: FALSE.

So his team was in the lottery his first two seasons. And his 3rd season when he was hurt. And 2019-20 when he was hurt. And I wouldn't hold 2020-21 against him since they made the playin game as the 8th seed. But that's still 4 seasons. Duncan was 1st team all-NBA as a rookie, and although the Spurs pretty much threw away one year of playoffs when he was injured, he was healthy enough to get them to the playoffs every season. 2016 gives Curry a higher peak than Duncan (and pretty much anyone), but not enough to make up for Duncan's longevity and defense.

Curry is still battling Bird, Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, and Shaq for a spot in the top 10. He does make the top 10 in my book, but not cracking the top 5 or beating out Duncan.

[Raps in 4]

1 or 2 more rings.

Duncan won:

1x ring with a declining (but still very good) David Robinson
3x rings with Manu and Parker (plus a washed up DRob for one of the rings)
1x ring as a role player (he was 5th on his team in usage rate in 2014)

His supporting cast has generally been around the level of Steph's during his non-KD years, so if Steph can win one or two more (depending on where you rate Robinson's level in 1999) without a superstar teammate, they'll be tied in my eyes, with both having strong cases for top-5 all-time.

[hauntedcomputer]

To get younger and dumber.

[WarriorGM]

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, Tim Duncan never needed another top 15 all time player in his prime to come and help him win 2 rings. Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Actually he did have to take part in rebuild which occurred from fall of '01 to fall of '04. After the Spurs got swept by the Lakers in '01 David Robinson was way past his prime. He fell off greatly after '01. The Spurs had 0 all-star players during that 3 years playing with Duncan. They weren't even projected to be a top 4 team in the west heading into the '01-'02 season and most experts had them being around 5-7. That team's second leading scorer was 36 year old David Robinson averaging 12.2 points a game and it's third leading scorer was a 32 year old Steve Smith who averaged 11.6 points a game. Duncan lead that team to the second best record in the West and ended up winning his first MVP. Spurs added Parker and Manu during that stretch but it took them a full 3 years to develop. So yes Duncan did take part in a rebuild he was just that good that the Spurs could still win a ton of games off of his talent. It's why he won back to back MVPs during that stretch.

Fair enough point but that does not capture the gap in the rebuilding task between the two. Top 4 in the west? In comparison the 2021 Warriors were projected by ESPN to be 14th—and not in the league but just in the West. Of course that probably exaggerated a little just because it is BSPN and they consistently find ways to gaslight people about Curry. Still the exaggeration would be in the underestimation of Steph not in the assessment of the putridness of that roster he was working with.

Tim Duncan never choked a 3-1 finals lead, Tim Duncan never needed another top 15 all time player in his prime to come and help him win 2 rings. Tim Duncan never missed the playoffs.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Ginobili the best player in the league? Am I reading this right?

Blame RAPM

[a8bil]

He has also led them to the lotto how many times as well? So that is that. It wouldn’t surprise me if at the end of his career he has a handful of non playoff appearances.

I mean I get people live in the moment, but anyone with proper context of the totality of careers right now would realize that he really isn’t close.

Do you want to answer your own question? I think you're using the term "led" loosely. Since 2012, when Curry came back from ankle surgery, Curry-led teams, with Steph healthy, have missed the playoffs once. Once. And in that season (19-20) they lost the play-in game. Our fact checkers have ruled on your post: FALSE.

So his team was in the lottery his first two seasons. And his 3rd season when he was hurt. And 2019-20 when he was hurt. And I wouldn't hold 2020-21 against him since they made the playin game as the 8th seed. But that's still 4 seasons. Duncan was 1st team all-NBA as a rookie, and although the Spurs pretty much threw away one year of playoffs when he was injured, he was healthy enough to get them to the playoffs every season. 2016 gives Curry a higher peak than Duncan (and pretty much anyone), but not enough to make up for Duncan's longevity and defense.

Curry is still battling Bird, Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, and Shaq for a spot in the top 10. He does make the top 10 in my book, but not cracking the top 5 or beating out Duncan.

I don't think we're in much disagreement...but I think to hold the two first seasons of Curry's career against him is a bit ludicrous. Think about the squad in his first year. Top games/minute guys were: Monte Ellis, Anthony Morrow, Corey Maggette, Anthony Tolliver and CJ Watson -- that defines putrescence. Duncan's 1st year team: Duncan, Robinson, Avery Johnson, Del Negro, Sean Elliot and Jaren Jackson. Robinson at least was a HOF player. The following year, GSW added David Lee and Dorell Wright, and dropped Maggette. But in neither of curry's first 2 years was it "his" team. Ellis was leading the team no where, and Curry was getting the same number of shots as Maggette, Wright and Lee. Ellis was getting around 8 more shots per game. It wasn't until management realized they needed to add by subtracting Ellis that GSW made Curry the team leader and they started on this run.

[Blame Rasho]

So yeah he wasn’t good enough to be an impact player with Monta have it all Ellis on his team. Says a lot about my point. He very well might have a handful of non playoff appearances like I said.

Speaking of that 7th seeded spurs team… they upset the 2nd seeded mavs and that was their worst regular season team.

18 years of playoffs, a streak of 50 games won including one in a 66 game season on top of all the hardware and awards.

[DoctorX]

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Actually he did have to take part in rebuild which occurred from fall of '01 to fall of '04. After the Spurs got swept by the Lakers in '01 David Robinson was way past his prime. He fell off greatly after '01. The Spurs had 0 all-star players during that 3 years playing with Duncan. They weren't even projected to be a top 4 team in the west heading into the '01-'02 season and most experts had them being around 5-7. That team's second leading scorer was 36 year old David Robinson averaging 12.2 points a game and it's third leading scorer was a 32 year old Steve Smith who averaged 11.6 points a game. Duncan lead that team to the second best record in the West and ended up winning his first MVP. Spurs added Parker and Manu during that stretch but it took them a full 3 years to develop. So yes Duncan did take part in a rebuild he was just that good that the Spurs could still win a ton of games off of his talent. It's why he won back to back MVPs during that stretch.

Fair enough point but that does not capture the gap in the rebuilding task between the two. Top 4 in the west? In comparison the 2021 Warriors were projected by ESPN to be 14th—and not in the league but just in the West. Of course that probably exaggerated a little just because it is BSPN and they consistently find ways to gaslight people about Curry. Still the exaggeration would be in the underestimation of Steph not in the assessment of the putridness of that roster he was working with.

Duncan got swept twice. Tim Duncan never actually had to experience a full rebuild. He started his career with a player who as it so happens some consider a top 15 player of all-time. After that he played with a player primarily responsible for beating Team USA with Duncan on it in the Olympics and with hindsight using the more advanced analytics of today may even have had an argument of being the best player in the league. Then later in his career was joined by a future perennial top 4 player in the league.

Ginobili the best player in the league? Am I reading this right?

Blame RAPM

That '01-'02 Spurs team was pretty bad. There are very few guys who would have been able to get them to the playoffs in their primes. Put Curry on that team and they are still a lottery team. You can't penalize Duncan for being that great that he could still win a ton of games regardless of who he played with and say his rebuild doesn't count. Duncan, LeBron, Shaq are the only 3 guys I have seen in my lifetime where you could put them on the worst team in the league in their primes and that team would end up winning a minimum of 50 games due to their talent level.