Prime Draymond vs Prime Rodman?

[jasonxxx102]

Draymond is so much better and so much more versatile. Not only is he absolutely elite defensively, he's a borderline elite playmaker and the QB of the entire defense. His communication is 2nd to none and he's rarely out of position. Add in that during his peak he was decent offensively and Rodman gave you absolutely nothing on the offensive end besides offensive rebounding.

Draymond is a better passer
More versatile defender
More versatile offensively

Rodman was a better rebounder.

I just don't understand how you could rationalize Rodman with stats or film. The only thing I can think of are the Bulls homers/GSW haters. Draymond is objectively better in just about every facet of the game.

[kazyv]

Clearly Green to me. I have Draymond as a top 5 player 2x (2016, 2017) and arguably top 5 3x (2015, 2018, 2019). I don't think Rodman was ever top 10 in the league.

Ironically, I think Rodman would develop a three in this era.

last i checked, gsw lost the 2016 finals and got absoutely crushed by lebron. where exactly was draymond in that picture, as a defensive specialist that is supposedly so good, he gets to be top5 in the league mostly off of defense?

First time EVER I've seen somebody hold the 2016 Finals AGAINST Draymond.

Where was he? Dropping a 32-15-9 and scoring as many threes as Curry and Klay combined lol, are you kidding me?

I just like consistency. when i say that draymond is a defensive specialist that excels in his role of the gsw system and then don't blame him for the system failing in 2016, because they as a team were outplayed, I think i'm being consistent. when somebody lifts draymond to the level of a top5 player, I have to ask how it squares with lebron and kyrie going off and winning after being 3-1. because it seems to me, that a defensive player of that stature would be able to show it on the court, when it matters. but that's just me.

[jasonxxx102]

last i checked, gsw lost the 2016 finals and got absoutely crushed by lebron. where exactly was draymond in that picture, as a defensive specialist that is supposedly so good, he gets to be top5 in the league mostly off of defense?

First time EVER I've seen somebody hold the 2016 Finals AGAINST Draymond.

Where was he? Dropping a 32-15-9 and scoring as many threes as Curry and Klay combined lol, are you kidding me?

I just like consistency. when i say that draymond is a defensive specialist that excels in his role of the gsw system and then don't blame him for the system failing in 2016, because they as a team were outplayed, I think i'm being consistent. when somebody lifts draymond to the level of a top5 player, I have to ask how it squares with lebron and kyrie going off and winning after being 3-1. because it seems to me, that a defensive player of that stature would be able to show it on the court, when it matters. but that's just me.

Who has ever said Draymond is a top 5 player? His ranking as a player is totally irrelevant to this discussion anyways.

The discussion is Draymond or Rodman.

Rodman did very little in 97/98 finals.

97 Rodman 2.3/7.7/1.5/0.7/0.2 while shooting 25% from the field and 37% from the line

98 Rodman 3.3/8.3/1/1.2/0.3 shooting 46% from the field and 67% from the line.

Can you find a single finals series when Draymond was that bad?

[Jaivl]

last i checked, gsw lost the 2016 finals and got absoutely crushed by lebron. where exactly was draymond in that picture, as a defensive specialist that is supposedly so good, he gets to be top5 in the league mostly off of defense?

First time EVER I've seen somebody hold the 2016 Finals AGAINST Draymond.

Where was he? Dropping a 32-15-9 and scoring as many threes as Curry and Klay combined lol, are you kidding me?

I just like consistency. when i say that draymond is a defensive specialist that excels in his role of the gsw system and then don't blame him for the system failing in 2016, because they as a team were outplayed, I think i'm being consistent. when somebody lifts draymond to the level of a top5 player, I have to ask how it squares with lebron and kyrie going off and winning after being 3-1. because it seems to me, that a defensive player of that stature would be able to show it on the court, when it matters. but that's just me.

Probably not the best examples because they were better players overall, but where was KG when Dirk torched the Wolves? Where was Duncan when Kobe or Stat torched the Spurs? Where was Howard when LeBron or Kobe torched the Magic? Defense does not work that way.

[colts18]

Who has ever said Draymond is a top 5 player? His ranking as a player is totally irrelevant to this discussion anyways.

The discussion is Draymond or Rodman.

Rodman did very little in 97/98 finals.

97 Rodman 2.3/7.7/1.5/0.7/0.2 while shooting 25% from the field and 37% from the line

98 Rodman 3.3/8.3/1/1.2/0.3 shooting 46% from the field and 67% from the line.

Can you find a single finals series when Draymond was that bad?

Did you watch Draymond in the 2022 Finals

[kazyv]

First time EVER I've seen somebody hold the 2016 Finals AGAINST Draymond.

Where was he? Dropping a 32-15-9 and scoring as many threes as Curry and Klay combined lol, are you kidding me?

I just like consistency. when i say that draymond is a defensive specialist that excels in his role of the gsw system and then don't blame him for the system failing in 2016, because they as a team were outplayed, I think i'm being consistent. when somebody lifts draymond to the level of a top5 player, I have to ask how it squares with lebron and kyrie going off and winning after being 3-1. because it seems to me, that a defensive player of that stature would be able to show it on the court, when it matters. but that's just me.

Probably not the best examples because they were better players overall, but where was KG when Dirk torched the Wolves? Where was Duncan when Kobe or Stat torched the Spurs? Where was Howard when LeBron or Kobe torched the Magic? Defense does not work that way.

yep, you got that right. defense doesn't work like that. it takes a team effort and in the end, great offense will beat great defense. that's why the superstars have always been offensive superstars and it's ridicuous to suggest that draymond has that kind of impact. green can't defend 1on5, gsw simply had a good system where everybody played a role and he played his role quite well.

[jasonxxx102]

Who has ever said Draymond is a top 5 player? His ranking as a player is totally irrelevant to this discussion anyways.

The discussion is Draymond or Rodman.

Rodman did very little in 97/98 finals.

97 Rodman 2.3/7.7/1.5/0.7/0.2 while shooting 25% from the field and 37% from the line

98 Rodman 3.3/8.3/1/1.2/0.3 shooting 46% from the field and 67% from the line.

Can you find a single finals series when Draymond was that bad?

Did you watch Draymond in the 2022 Finals

Well 2022 is not prime draymond but even still he absolutely dominated game 6 en route to another ring. For as bad as he was offensively he was still dominant defensively and more useful than any single Rodman year.

[kayess]

Clearly Green, right? His playmaking and ability to space the floor in his prime trumps Rodman's offensive rebounding prowess, and I suppose you could call them roughly equal on defense at best (though higher confidence about Draymond's ceiling as a defender, for sure).

[trex_8063]

I think it's Draymond, and perhaps not all that close.

Rodman is a far better offensive rebounder. He's a little better defensive rebounder, too, but only a little imo. Yeah, I know the difference in their individual rebounding numbers is big, but do not lose sight of the fact that Rodman cannibalized team rebounds [often at the expense of boxing out] to pad his individual rebounding numbers.

But Draymond is otherwise the better defender [I would say comfortably]: he's a much better rim-protector, forces more turnovers [without unnecessary gambles], pretty much just as versatile, too. And more consistently engaged [like EVERY possession], whereas Rodman [anywhere past about '92 anyway] could disengage from sound defensive practices for long stretches [instead focusing pretty exclusively on rebounding].

Draymond is a far better playmaker.

Neither is moving the needle as a scorer, though Green at least had ~3 seasons as a fair-to-good floor-spacer.

And Draymond doesn't generate a toxic atmosphere. Rodman needed the most stern alpha team leaders to NOT go toxic (he STILL sort of did in '98).
From what I've seen/read, Draymond is credited (along with Steph, Kerr) for creating/maintaining the team culture in GS.


So for me, those things add up and easily outweigh Rodman's rebounding edge. Or rather: Draymond's skillset and talents marginally outweigh what Rodman brings to the table......and then the non-toxic factor adds in to make it an easy peesy choice, imo.

[kcktiny]

I must admit I do get a good laugh when some come here and claim Green was the better defender, this despite the fact that when through each player's first ten years in the league:

- Rodman was named DPOY twice (over all-time great defensive Cs like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Patrick Ewing in their prime), Green once, and...
- Rodman was named all-defensive 1st team 7 times, Green 4 times...

Rodman is in the HOF despite averages of just 7.3 pts/g and 1.8 ast/g. He's there because of his defense first, and then his rebounding.

If you seriously think Green is the better defender I suggest you go and actually watch some Pistons, Spurs, or Bulls games on YouTube - full games - and never take your eyes off of Rodman when he's on defense. Watch a master at work.

Talk about recency bias.

[70sFan]

Rodman peaked quite high, but I'd take Green comfortably.

[jasonxxx102]

I must admit I do get a good laugh when some come here and claim Green was the better defender, this despite the fact that when through each player's first ten years in the league:

- Rodman was named DPOY twice (over all-time great defensive Cs like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Patrick Ewing in their prime), Green once, and...
- Rodman was named all-defensive 1st team 7 times, Green 4 times...

Rodman is in the HOF despite averages of just 7.3 pts/g and 1.8 ast/g. He's there because of his defense first, and then his rebounding.

If you seriously think Green is the better defender I suggest you go and actually watch some Pistons, Spurs, or Bulls games on YouTube - full games - and never take your eyes off of Rodman when he's on defense. Watch a master at work.

Talk about recency bias.

There's a distinction to be made here. Draymond is a much more cerebral defender whereas Rodman was much more physical.

I'll take the guy who's quarterbacking the defense and making the system work over the guy who was physically more dominant.

[Doctor MJ]

Who do you think was the better player in their era?

Green. I understand the theory of Rodman being the more effective player when he played because of the rebounding, but I don't see evidence of even that in practice, and there's an entire dimension of Green as "quickest brain in the room" and "tough leader who keeps others in line".

The whole thing where Jordan had to fly to Vegas to grab the irresponsible dumbass of a 3rd star by the ear to bring him back to the team? If that happened on Golden State, Green would be in Jordan's role.

[Doctor MJ]

I must admit I do get a good laugh when some come here and claim Green was the better defender, this despite the fact that when through each player's first ten years in the league:

- Rodman was named DPOY twice (over all-time great defensive Cs like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Patrick Ewing in their prime), Green once, and...
- Rodman was named all-defensive 1st team 7 times, Green 4 times...

Rodman is in the HOF despite averages of just 7.3 pts/g and 1.8 ast/g. He's there because of his defense first, and then his rebounding.

If you seriously think Green is the better defender I suggest you go and actually watch some Pistons, Spurs, or Bulls games on YouTube - full games - and never take your eyes off of Rodman when he's on defense. Watch a master at work.

Talk about recency bias.

I'd suggest not laughing at people who try to use their own assessments rather than relying on the votes of other people.

Re: Watch a master at work. If you can't see Green is a master in his own right doing things Rodman didn't do, then you're missing important stuff. These two guys are not outliers for the same reasons.

[kcktiny]

I'd suggest not laughing at people who try to use their own assessments rather than relying on the votes of other people.

It's easy to laugh at anyone who ignores the opinions of those who watched these players play the most - NBA coaches and NBA sportswriters/broadcasters. I've watched a ton of NBA basketball over the years, yet that doesn't even come close to how much these people watched as their daily vocation, as a group. I value that input - greatly - even when it does not match my opinion.

Re: Watch a master at work. If you can't see Green is a master in his own right doing things Rodman didn't do, then you're missing important stuff.

Did I at any point in time say Green was not? What I did say was that the player voted all-defensive 1st 7 times and DPOY twice over just an 8 year span was, and that those that did not believe he was should take the opportunity to actually watch him play.

Rodman last played full time some 25 years ago, and started his career some 36 years ago. How often did you see him play?

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