Jordan’s teams were shockingly healthy

[lessthanjake]

I’ve been thinking about how often times the team that wins the championship is determined by which top team actually remains fully healthy in the playoffs. You can go back through the playoffs the last bunch of years and basically tell a story about how every championship team was substantially healthier than the best team they played in the playoffs. And this got me thinking back to those 1990s Bulls team. I didn’t recall them having major injuries in the playoffs, but was curious if that was actually the case so did some digging. And what I found was not only that the top three on the Bulls teams (Jordan/Pippen/Grant and Jordan/Pippen/Rodman) never missed a single playoff game in the title years, but also that the rest of the Bulls supporting cast basically virtually never missed any games either. The Bulls essentially had perfect health every year. This is really remarkable luck in the NBA—where teams are virtually always dealing with injuries in the playoffs.

And while I consider Jordan the GOAT, I think this does have to be taken into account. Jordan’s legacy is in part a function of the fact that once he started winning, he won every year he played (minus the 1995 playoffs, when he’d barely come back to basketball). But it seems to me that a huge part of that was that his team had remarkable injury luck. He not only never had a year where a star alongside him went down (if Pippen or Grant/Rodman went down, the Bulls very likely would have not won the title), but never even really had to deal with any significant absences of any role players. And even role-player absence is something that can make a significant difference—for instance, the Warriors really may not have won the title this year if Gary Payton II didn’t come back, the Suns may have won last year if Saric hadn’t gotten injured, the 2016 Warriors likely win the title if Bogut didn’t get injured, etc. A top tier team will have a really good chance to win the title any year they are completely healthy (since they likely will have a health advantage against the other top teams they play in the latter rounds of the playoffs), and so an all-time great having a completely healthy team many years in a row is really likely to end up with many titles (for reference, the Warriors of this era have really only lost when members of their core have missed time).

I realize health is a skill, but an all-time great can’t control their teammates’s health. It’s an exogenous variable, and it’s one that Jordan had more luck with than other all-time greats. There’s a good argument that Jordan would have fewer titles (maybe even by a lot) if his teams had average injury luck.

[Sark]

He played against very healthy teams as well. The only injured player really was James Worthy in 91, but he played 4 of the 5 games in the Finals.

Pippen and Rodman were pretty broken down by 97 and 98 as well. Pippen needed surgery, and he infamously put it off until the start of the 98 season, causing him to miss half the games.


Pippen and Grant were pretty worn out by 93 as well. They both had down years, which is why they only won 57 games after winning 67 in 92. It was pretty much a carry job for Jordan to get that three peat. He did the same for the 98 three peat as well, carrying a very tired team.

[Lockdown504090]

guys werent training as much, the game didnt have all this cutting and distance to travel, its not surprising. the wear on people was due to physicality more than anything in comparison, which in todays game isnt really the cause of injury

[NO-KG-AI]

Scottie Pippen was literally useless and limping up and down as a decoy in the end of the last Jazz series after missing half the regular season. He was 2/16 in game 5, and scored 8 points in 25 minutes in the defining game.

Rodman played 64 and 55 games his first two seasons there.

I think it's more that dudes didn't sit out every other game with a hang nail like guys do now. Jordan set the tone. The fact that he was always in the lineup makes it so bums don't sit out.

[Bologna Smasher]

As others have mentioned, I remember Pippen and Rodman being hurt off and on during their last couple years with Jordan.

But yeah, the 90s in general didn't have as many injury issues as we see today. I know it sounds old at this point, but the earlier generations were just tougher (both mentally and physically) than the modern ones.

Another factor is that players back then weren't getting these ridiculous amounts of money either, so it kept everyone hungry and less likely to sit out games for minor injuries.

[bearadonisdna]

today guys have basketball muscles, back then guys had strength muscles because you needed to be good to play the game

[Myth]

He played against very healthy teams as well. The only injured player really was James Worthy in 91, but he played 4 of the 5 games in the Finals.

Pippen and Rodman were pretty broken down by 97 and 98 as well. Pippen needed surgery, and he infamously put it off until the start of the 98 season, causing him to miss half the games.


Pippen and Grant were pretty worn out by 93 as well. They both had down years, which is why they only won 57 games after winning 67 in 92. It was pretty much a carry job for Jordan to get that three peat. He did the same for the 98 three peat as well, carrying a very tired team.

Exactly. I scenario that we would see these days if a #2 guy got hurt is the team that was expected to be a top seed suddenly slides to a lower seed. Then the #2 guy comes back for the playoffs and the team loses, and fans will say “Well that player wasn’t 100% and they didn’t even have home court advantage because of an unhealthy year.” But this scenario happened to Jordan and he kept them as an upper seed and dragged his #2 who was not yet healthy to a championship, and it was so convincing of a win in the Finals that people seemingly forgot this and continue to talk about how stacked Jordan’s team was. But when looks at the 98 Finals for example, you’ll see Jordan’s 2nd player (Pippen) with 15ppg, his 3rd scorer (Kukoc) with 15ppg, and everybody else 5ppg or worse. And that rebounding stud Rodman was only pulling down 8rpg.

[turnaroundJ]

The Suns had some key injuries in 1993 iirc

[giberish]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

[HumbleRen]

AAU basketball is adding thousands of minutes on to bodies that aren't even at adult stage yet before they even enter College.

[NO-KG-AI]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

Sports careers are longer than ever. Are there more injuries, or are guys more cautious with nagging and smaller injuries than ever before?

[sp6r=underrated]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

Sports careers are longer than ever. Are there more injuries, or are guys more cautious with nagging and smaller injuries than ever before?

My guess is:

1. Each generation advancements in all sports, whether arms for pitchers or knees for basketball, places more strain on the human body.
2. Each generation athletes are getting paid a lot more which make athletes much more risk adverse about playing through injuries.

[Sark]

The Suns had some key injuries in 1993 iirc

Kevin Johnson was hurt, but he played. Jordan was hurt as well, but he played through it. He had a wrist injury, which is why he had the wrist wrap.



Dunking left handed to avoid the right wrist in the 93 playoffs

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ce4cY6eAgjs

[sp6r=underrated]

Ceballos being injured was a big hit to Phoenix. Given how absurdly close that series was it was a big deal.

[Dominator83]

Rest games are overrated

[cam24thomas]

Dennis Rodman only played 64 games for the 72-10 Bulls in 1995-96.
Dennis Rodman only played 55 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Toni Kukoc only played 57 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Scottie Pippen only played 44 games for the 62-20 Bulls in 1997-98.
Luc Longley only played 62, 59 and 58 games in his 3-Peat.

[NO-KG-AI]

Dennis Rodman only played 64 games for the 72-10 Bulls in 1995-96.
Dennis Rodman only played 55 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Scottie Pippen only played 44 games for the 62-20 Bulls in 1997-98.
Luc Longley only played 62, 59 and 58 games in his 3-Peat.

The real topic should be : Jordan was shockingly healthy

Like we're literally talking about Andrew Bogut being injured compared to Scottie Pippen

[sp6r=underrated]

Dennis Rodman only played 64 games for the 72-10 Bulls in 1995-96.
Dennis Rodman only played 55 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Toni Kukoc only played 57 games for the 69-13 Bulls in 1996-97.
Scottie Pippen only played 44 games for the 62-20 Bulls in 1997-98.
Luc Longley only played 62, 59 and 58 games in his 3-Peat.

Those guys missed a combined 6 playoff games from 96 to 98 (Kukoc/Longley in seperate post-seasons). Grant, Pippen, Armtrong and Cartwright missed 0 playoff games from 91-93.

Pippen Grant/Rodman never missed a playoff game in those years.

[giberish]

Across all sports there definitely seems to be a lot more injuries than there used to be. Not even factoring in load management issues but the major issues where guys just aren't going to be playing.

IMO the best explanation is specialization. If you train for a limited set of motions than you can get very strong in doing those motions but relatively weak/fragile when anything goes wrong. The classic old-school star jock who played football, basketball and baseball through HS (or just several different sports in general) IMO was less likely to severely injure themselves when they land slightly wrong or slip on a wet floor.

Sports careers are longer than ever. Are there more injuries, or are guys more cautious with nagging and smaller injuries than ever before?

They're definitely more cautious with minor injuries in the regular season. But the type of injuries that keep guys out in the playoffs tend to be the type that you're just not playing through. Also most of the injuries keeping guys out most of a season or more are the sort of serious injury that you're not playing through - and guys are probably returning faster from those due to medical/rehab improvements.

[SelfishPlayer]

AAU basketball is adding thousands of minutes on to bodies that aren't even at adult stage yet before they even enter College.

That was a hot topic several years ago that died. People blamed Derrick Rose's shortened prime on playing too much basketball before the NBA. That and "the way he lands..."