2022 SPURS OFF-SEASON ROSTER NEWS, RUMOURS & TRADE IDEAS

[G R E Y]

Interesting...

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So it appears Suns would want a S&T rather than matching an offer sheet Ayton signs elsewhere.

As to potential max contracts:

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The LaVine contract is frankly gross. Starts higher than where Ayton's would end. Add to it that he's got knee issues and 27 when the contract starts whereas Ayton would be 27 when his ended, and it's almost a no-brainer. I say almost because Ayton reportedly had consistency issues and clashed with/displeased Suns coach Monty because of it. He's a gaming addict - using that term loosely - who would lose sleep in the POs to finish playing. But he's only 23 and hopefully can be redirected with the right culture.

That's all assuming we have the right package for him and he wants to play with us.

[G R E Y]

*sigh* I hope this is just DJ's 'me against the world' motivation rather than it being a 'thing':

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We just finished the FIRST YEAR of our rebuild. He just finished his first year as the main leader of the team. Is this leadership? Me me me? He works too hard? As opposed to whom? Are his team mates either not working hard enough or just not good enough? Was he good enough in year two or three of his career? Just when I'm on the brink of being all in on DJ he posts this. Maybe he's frustrated seeing Derrick in the finals or whatever, but these easily read into double message posts are not what is best for the team.

[G R E Y]

Thread title does have 'rumours' and this isn't new but the smoke keeps swirling whether this account has sources or is just regurgitating known info to generate traffic:

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This is an interesting comparison of Jakob and Ayton. I do agree that it's closer than the vote for the reasons noted here, still, Ayton does have some impressive advantages. Note also, however, that Jakob's usage this season was 18.3% whereas Ayton's was 21.4%.

[imagump1313]

*sigh* I hope this is just DJ's 'me against the world' motivation rather than it being a 'thing':

Read on Twitter

We just finished the FIRST YEAR of our rebuild. He just finished his first year as the main leader of the team. Is this leadership? Me me me? He works too hard? As opposed to whom? Are his team mates either not working hard enough or just not good enough? Was he good enough in year two or three of his career? Just when I'm on the brink of being all in on DJ he posts this. Maybe he's frustrated seeing Derrick in the finals or whatever, but these easily read into double message posts are not what is best for the team.

He was starting to grow on me but that was because he cooled off on all the passive aggressive messages and started playing ball. It will be interesting to see how he plays now that Becky Hammon is gone since he was soo close to her.

To be quite honest, as I was looking at our roster today trying to see what we could get for a draft pick. I came to the realization that Murray probably isn't going to be here when we are ready to win anyway. Unless we get some major free agents with all this cap space this summer or next, by the time any of these draft picks are lucky enough to pan out Murray will be close to or on the wrong side of 30 when we are really ready to win something.

I'm not that attached to him, especially if we cant land some major help this summer so it might be best to look for an out if we cant sign anyone.

[G R E Y]

*sigh* I hope this is just DJ's 'me against the world' motivation rather than it being a 'thing':

Read on Twitter

We just finished the FIRST YEAR of our rebuild. He just finished his first year as the main leader of the team. Is this leadership? Me me me? He works too hard? As opposed to whom? Are his team mates either not working hard enough or just not good enough? Was he good enough in year two or three of his career? Just when I'm on the brink of being all in on DJ he posts this. Maybe he's frustrated seeing Derrick in the finals or whatever, but these easily read into double message posts are not what is best for the team.

He was starting to grow on me but that was because he cooled off on all the passive aggressive messages and started playing ball. It will be interesting to see how he plays now that Becky Hammon is gone since he was soo close to her.

To be quite honest, as I was looking at our roster today trying to see what we could get for a draft pick. I came to the realization that Murray probably isn't going to be here when we are ready to win anyway. Unless we get some major free agents with all this cap space this summer or next, by the time any of these draft picks are lucky enough to pan out Murray will be close to or on the wrong side of 30 when we are really ready to win something.

I'm not that attached to him, especially if we cant land some major help this summer so it might be best to look for an out if we cant sign anyone.

1000%

I am on the brink of doing the PGs section in the Strengths/Improvements thread and even before this the main gist is that DJ despite currently being the best player on our team can't be the best player on a championship contending team. That's a hard fact. And while I didn't think he'd be the player he is, it would surprise me if he had another such leap to his game. And that will have to change yet again when we get players who take us to another level.

And despite his saying in previous interviews that because we had other main go-to players the young guys had to essentially wait their turn, the implication that he's been ready for the last however many years, this when Derrick used to be the better P&R PG or when DJ still doesn't a shoot the 3 reliably (improved, yes; threat, no) hasn't passed scrutiny. There's a bit of a disconnect between his perception of his game and the reality.

Maybe he resents the attention and accolades Derrick is getting being on the biggest stage, this after Derrick stepped up for Team USA. The irony is that Derrick is the ultimate do what's asked of him guy and is a star in his role, but that role is different than what he had with us. He went from starter to key bench player on a finals team.

I addressed Hammon and the unprofessionalism of her leaving on the brink of our most important game of the season in the Strengths/Improvements thread. Two PGs being close makes sense. Two personnel looking out for themselves first? Not the best look when an organization looks after its personnel as well as we do. There are no skipped steps. If it's taken some players longer to get to the next steps is that on the team or the player? Keldon even with faults in his game broke through from late first round pick to starter in his second year.

It didn't help the team that the Klutch players were looking for one another and passing to each other more freely and other team mates were secondary options even if they were more open. That happened enough that I wasn't looking for it at all but at some point noticed it because it started standing out.

Add the optics of DJ posting that in his NB gear rather than no Spurs gear having changed his avatar picture, you have to wonder whether he's looking around as now the oldest of all the youth movement and thinking the same thing you've stated, gump. But it still doesn't excuse the post the way it's written. It's not as if we're in cap hell and don't have any picks or means of improving our team quickly. It's not like we'd be standing pat had he not posted that. And if he thinks we're going to cater to a single player over what's best for the team well LOL

If we move up to draft, say, Dyson Daniels, the future back court is Daniels and Primo. DJ may be our best asset to improve our team to the next level and I'm fine with that.

[imagump1313]

If we move up to draft, say, Dyson Daniels, the future back court is Daniels and Primo. DJ may be our best asset to improve our team to the next level and I'm fine with that.

Ugh. I'm really starting to get depressed if we are pinning our hopes on Primo. IMO Primo's ceiling is what Devin Vassell was this year.

He might be an ok NBA player at best.

I hope I'm wrong but thats what I see.

[G R E Y]

If we move up to draft, say, Dyson Daniels, the future back court is Daniels and Primo. DJ may be our best asset to improve our team to the next level and I'm fine with that.

Ugh. I'm really starting to get depressed if we are pinning our hopes on Primo. IMO Primo's ceiling is what Devin Vassell was this year.

He might be an ok NBA player at best.

I hope I'm wrong but thats what I see.

You know, he graduated HS early, and would be one of the youngest draftees in THIS year's draft. I really believe in his game. He sees the court in a unique way and will get bigger and better. We have to give him time. One of the highest ceilings on our team. You can argue that's not saying much seeing as how we're a play-in level team right now, but PATFO is about projecting ceilings and they're very good at it.

He had a better first year than DJ, for instance (variables considered). He has a touch and creativity you can't teach, solid vision, competitive, good defender. A lot of our draftees didn't have the package he has, especially in the can't-teach department. He's very inexperienced so it will take time but I'm excited about his future.

Sort of falling in love with Dyson now...

[imagump1313]

If we move up to draft, say, Dyson Daniels, the future back court is Daniels and Primo. DJ may be our best asset to improve our team to the next level and I'm fine with that.

Ugh. I'm really starting to get depressed if we are pinning our hopes on Primo. IMO Primo's ceiling is what Devin Vassell was this year.

He might be an ok NBA player at best.

I hope I'm wrong but thats what I see.

You know, he graduated HS early, and would be one of the youngest draftees in THIS year's draft. I really believe in his game. He sees the court in a unique way and will get bigger and better. We have to give him time. One of the highest ceilings on our team. You can argue that's not saying much seeing as how we're a play-in level team right now, but PATFO is about projecting ceilings and they're very good at it.

He had a better first year than DJ, for instance (variables considered). He has a touch and creativity you can't teach, solid vision, competitive, good defender. A lot of our draftees didn't have the package he has, especially in the can't-teach department. He's very inexperienced so it will take time but I'm excited about his future.

Sort of falling in love with Dyson now...

Sorry, I just don't see it. Franchise players either have it or they dont. Kawhi at least showed some flashes the first year. Primo just looks like another guy with medium to low basketball IQ and average athletic ability for the NBA. You can focus on guys and see if they understand the game, and manipulate it. Luka does it, Trey Jones does it. Ja Morant does it to a much lesser extent but you can see flashes.

All Primo did all year was stand in the corner and pass up shots. Granted the rest of the team and the coaches kind of let that happen but thats the point. An upcoming star, a team leader, a winner would demand more than just standing in the corner at some point and then actually prove it. He had a few chances and he basically did nothing but get benched.

I'm not giving up on him being a useful player at some point but I have no hope at all that he is going to be some franchise savior. Thats totally not his fault either. It just is what it is.

[G R E Y]

Ugh. I'm really starting to get depressed if we are pinning our hopes on Primo. IMO Primo's ceiling is what Devin Vassell was this year.

He might be an ok NBA player at best.

I hope I'm wrong but thats what I see.

You know, he graduated HS early, and would be one of the youngest draftees in THIS year's draft. I really believe in his game. He sees the court in a unique way and will get bigger and better. We have to give him time. One of the highest ceilings on our team. You can argue that's not saying much seeing as how we're a play-in level team right now, but PATFO is about projecting ceilings and they're very good at it.

He had a better first year than DJ, for instance (variables considered). He has a touch and creativity you can't teach, solid vision, competitive, good defender. A lot of our draftees didn't have the package he has, especially in the can't-teach department. He's very inexperienced so it will take time but I'm excited about his future.

Sort of falling in love with Dyson now...

Sorry, I just don't see it. Franchise players either have it or they dont. Kawhi at least showed some flashes the first year. Primo just looks like another guy with medium to low basketball IQ and average athletic ability for the NBA. You can focus on guys and see if they understand the game, and manipulate it. Luka does it, Trey Jones does it. Ja Morant does it to a much lesser extent but you can see flashes.

All Primo did all year was stand in the corner and pass up shots. Granted the rest of the team and the coaches kind of let that happen but thats the point. An upcoming star, a team leader, a winner would demand more than just standing in the corner at some point and then actually prove it. He had a few chances and he basically did nothing but get benched.

I'm not giving up on him being a useful player at some point but I have no hope at all that he is going to be some franchise savior. Thats totally not his fault either. It just is what it is.

Well all of those guys you mentioned were more experienced. I went through the Tankathon.com mock and there are only 11 players in the top 30 who are younger than Primo, and even then by just a couple to a few months at most.

Patrick Williams was also coming off the bench in a much smaller role and he was picked 4th. Teams project based on their experience. The problem with PW being 4th is that it almost forced the Bulls to play him right away when he was nowhere near ready for the NBA game. You develop bad habits and get overwhelmed that way. Or injured. Or all of them.

I watched Primo in G-League and he was a different player. The NBA level was too heady for him, but he showed good D, and I think he was actually asked to simplify things, like just do one thing at a time well type of development. Not sure if you watched any Austin Spurs games, but he was the main facilitator and he made some great can't-teach-feel seeing-ball passes, made some crafty shots at the rim, made some gutsy clutch shots, and grew as a defender.

What I like about Primo, too, is that he has this inner rhythm you can't shake him out of as well. He'll just get his or make the right read just when the time's right not when outside conditions dictate them.

To your last point, I don't know that we drafted Primo to be a franchise saviour. Is that the standard? If it is then all of our drafts since Timmy have failed. But what if he's the next #20 or #9? Something closer to that level? Point being, sure another guard, but we're in talent acquisition mode, and in doing so we can make other moves with the other players we have. Rebuilds and development take patience, and I think we're doing well in both. We can even strike to improve our team to the next level. Lots of options. Primo talent is part of that.

p.s. My Klutch hunch was right. Passed the eye test. Turns out DJ, Lonnie Keldon are top three in usage. They really were looking for one another. I'd have to look back at before Keldon switched to them and after, but anyway definitely needs to be spread around differently, especially with Lonnie being second on the team in usage lol

[imagump1313]

You know, he graduated HS early, and would be one of the youngest draftees in THIS year's draft. I really believe in his game. He sees the court in a unique way and will get bigger and better. We have to give him time. One of the highest ceilings on our team. You can argue that's not saying much seeing as how we're a play-in level team right now, but PATFO is about projecting ceilings and they're very good at it.

He had a better first year than DJ, for instance (variables considered). He has a touch and creativity you can't teach, solid vision, competitive, good defender. A lot of our draftees didn't have the package he has, especially in the can't-teach department. He's very inexperienced so it will take time but I'm excited about his future.

Sort of falling in love with Dyson now...

Sorry, I just don't see it. Franchise players either have it or they dont. Kawhi at least showed some flashes the first year. Primo just looks like another guy with medium to low basketball IQ and average athletic ability for the NBA. You can focus on guys and see if they understand the game, and manipulate it. Luka does it, Trey Jones does it. Ja Morant does it to a much lesser extent but you can see flashes.

All Primo did all year was stand in the corner and pass up shots. Granted the rest of the team and the coaches kind of let that happen but thats the point. An upcoming star, a team leader, a winner would demand more than just standing in the corner at some point and then actually prove it. He had a few chances and he basically did nothing but get benched.

I'm not giving up on him being a useful player at some point but I have no hope at all that he is going to be some franchise savior. Thats totally not his fault either. It just is what it is.

Well all of those guys you mentioned were more experienced. I went through the Tankathon.com mock and there are only 11 players in the top 30 who are younger than Primo, and even then by just a couple to a few months at most.

Patrick Williams was also coming off the bench in a much smaller role and he was picked 4th. Teams project based on their experience. The problem with PW being 4th is that it almost forced the Bulls to play him right away when he was nowhere near ready for the NBA game. You develop bad habits and get overwhelmed that way. Or injured. Or all of them.

I watched Primo in G-League and he was a different player. The NBA level was too heady for him, but he showed good D, and I think he was actually asked to simplify things, like just do one thing at a time well type of development. Not sure if you watched any Austin Spurs games, but he was the main facilitator and he made some great can't-teach-feel seeing-ball passes, made some crafty shots at the rim, made some gutsy clutch shots, and grew as a defender.

What I like about Primo, too, is that he has this inner rhythm you can't shake him out of as well. He'll just get his or make the right read just when the time's right not when outside conditions dictate them.

To your last point, I don't know that we drafted Primo to be a franchise saviour. Is that the standard? If it is then all of our drafts since Timmy have failed. But what if he's the next #20 or #9? Something closer to that level? Point being, sure another guard, but we're in talent acquisition mode, and in doing so we can make other moves with the other players we have. Rebuilds and development take patience, and I think we're doing well in both. We can even strike to improve our team to the next level. Lots of options. Primo talent is part of that.

p.s. My Klutch hunch was right. Passed the eye test. Turns out DJ, Lonnie Keldon are top three in usage. They really were looking for one another. I'd have to look back at before Keldon switched to them and after, but anyway definitely needs to be spread around differently, especially with Lonnie being second on the team in usage lol

Totally agree on the Klutch nonsense. But that was also halted by Pop or someone right after that players only meeting early in the season and Vassell played great after being allowed an opportunity to not be shut out by them anymore.

As far as Primo being a savior? We drafted him out of nowhere because we were trying to be the smartest guys in the room instead of drafting a useful player for us at that time. Everyone, I mean everyone who likes the Spurs seems to think he is going to be some kind of superstar. I would love that but I don't see it realistically.

I have mentioned before that I am all for drafting the all or nothing chance player, but absolutely no one but us thought Primo was that. We got memorized by his youth and that someone soo young could hold his own at the college level, but that doesnt make you a good NBA player where everyone is good.

If he had more basketball sense maybe. If he was more overwhelming athletically maybe. But he is neither. Could he be the next Parker or Ginobili? He could be friends with them maybe but from what I've seen of him he better concentrate on still being in the league in 3 years IMO. He is never going to be that level of player, ever.

I've watched those G-League games. He looks better there because its the G-League LOL. 5'6" Isiah Thomas with one hip looks good in the G-League and cant play 5 minutes in an NBA game. Luka Samanic looked good in G-League games

Hopefully we can dig up this post in a couple years and laugh when Primo is a star, I would be happy with that but I'm afraid I'm right.

[G R E Y]

Sorry, I just don't see it. Franchise players either have it or they dont. Kawhi at least showed some flashes the first year. Primo just looks like another guy with medium to low basketball IQ and average athletic ability for the NBA. You can focus on guys and see if they understand the game, and manipulate it. Luka does it, Trey Jones does it. Ja Morant does it to a much lesser extent but you can see flashes.

All Primo did all year was stand in the corner and pass up shots. Granted the rest of the team and the coaches kind of let that happen but thats the point. An upcoming star, a team leader, a winner would demand more than just standing in the corner at some point and then actually prove it. He had a few chances and he basically did nothing but get benched.

I'm not giving up on him being a useful player at some point but I have no hope at all that he is going to be some franchise savior. Thats totally not his fault either. It just is what it is.

Well all of those guys you mentioned were more experienced. I went through the Tankathon.com mock and there are only 11 players in the top 30 who are younger than Primo, and even then by just a couple to a few months at most.

Patrick Williams was also coming off the bench in a much smaller role and he was picked 4th. Teams project based on their experience. The problem with PW being 4th is that it almost forced the Bulls to play him right away when he was nowhere near ready for the NBA game. You develop bad habits and get overwhelmed that way. Or injured. Or all of them.

I watched Primo in G-League and he was a different player. The NBA level was too heady for him, but he showed good D, and I think he was actually asked to simplify things, like just do one thing at a time well type of development. Not sure if you watched any Austin Spurs games, but he was the main facilitator and he made some great can't-teach-feel seeing-ball passes, made some crafty shots at the rim, made some gutsy clutch shots, and grew as a defender.

What I like about Primo, too, is that he has this inner rhythm you can't shake him out of as well. He'll just get his or make the right read just when the time's right not when outside conditions dictate them.

To your last point, I don't know that we drafted Primo to be a franchise saviour. Is that the standard? If it is then all of our drafts since Timmy have failed. But what if he's the next #20 or #9? Something closer to that level? Point being, sure another guard, but we're in talent acquisition mode, and in doing so we can make other moves with the other players we have. Rebuilds and development take patience, and I think we're doing well in both. We can even strike to improve our team to the next level. Lots of options. Primo talent is part of that.

p.s. My Klutch hunch was right. Passed the eye test. Turns out DJ, Lonnie Keldon are top three in usage. They really were looking for one another. I'd have to look back at before Keldon switched to them and after, but anyway definitely needs to be spread around differently, especially with Lonnie being second on the team in usage lol

Totally agree on the Klutch nonsense. But that was also halted by Pop or someone right after that players only meeting early in the season and Vassell played great after being allowed an opportunity to not be shut out by them anymore.

As far as Primo being a savior? We drafted him out of nowhere because we were trying to be the smartest guys in the room instead of drafting a useful player for us at that time. Everyone, I mean everyone who likes the Spurs seems to think he is going to be some kind of superstar. I would love that but I don't see it realistically.

I have mentioned before that I am all for drafting the all or nothing chance player, but absolutely no one but us thought Primo was that. We got memorized by his youth and that someone soo young could hold his own at the college level, but that doesnt make you a good NBA player where everyone is good.

If he had more basketball sense maybe. If he was more overwhelming athletically maybe. But he is neither. Could he be the next Parker or Ginobili? He could be friends with them maybe but from what I've seen of him he better concentrate on still being in the league in 3 years IMO. He is never going to be that level of player, ever.

I've watched those G-League games. He looks better there because its the G-League LOL. 5'6" Isiah Thomas with one hip looks good in the G-League and cant play 5 minutes in an NBA game. Luka Samanic looked good in G-League games

Hopefully we can dig up this post in a couple years and laugh when Primo is a star, I would be happy with that but I'm afraid I'm right.

Time for another pint bet! (I lost the last one, by the way, as you were right about Bryn. I'm due for a W!)

[imagump1313]

Time for another pint bet! (I lost the last one, by the way, as you were right about Bryn. I'm due for a W!)

Its a deal

[G R E Y]

So we're less linked to Ayton now at least publicly:

Read on Twitter

And with Indy mentioned, we have whispers of our interest in one of their bigs:

Read on Twitter

It's interesting that we reportedly have interest in LaVine, Ayton, Sexton, and now Turner, and are also reportedly interested in moving up with us liking Daniels and Murray. Feels like we'll be doing some moving and shaking. I didn't expect us to have all the four picks at camp, and we're widely believed to try to consolidate, but I wonder with the season we've had - too good to be bad, not good enough to be in the playoffs outright with clear holes in our roster, whether we're targeting more players that could both fill needs and help now to better take advantage of our position.

Even Daniels and Murray, if interest is true, are players who have mature aspects to their games.

It's not skipping steps, just better aligning where our best players - DJ, Keldon, and I'm expecting Devin to make a good leap this season - are right now. We're sort of in between them being better than we perhaps expected while others are still too green. To fill in the gaps with good players that fit our need to be more competitive and balance out the roster is prudent, especially for the 50th Anniversary season.

But I do also hope and think we'll remain in asset acquisition mode, making moves to keep getting picks especially for the 2023 draft.

[Phreak50]

Move Murray.

You've both mentioned the reasons above, two of them I've been saying for over a year.

Don't sign Lavine for the love of God. He is not much better than Lonnie.

Don't waste a max contract and dig your own grave with Ayton.

Head case issues aside, he is way too limited on offense and his D doesn't make up for that (in a way that someone like Gobert does).

Just get rid of Murray and anyone even moderately known as a vet and do the OKC thing for the next 2 years.

[imagump1313]

Move Murray.

You've both mentioned the reasons above, two of them I've been saying for over a year.

Don't sign Lavine for the love of God. He is not much better than Lonnie.

Don't waste a max contract and dig your own grave with Ayton.

Head case issues aside, he is way too limited on offense and his D doesn't make up for that (in a way that someone like Gobert does).

Just get rid of Murray and anyone even moderately known as a vet and do the OKC thing for the next 2 years.

I agree with what you're saying to a point. Murray is quickly beginning to not fit in our timeline (Especially if we don't sign any big FA's this year or next) and if he becomes a headache then I'm all for moving him but I don't think we need to go the route of OKC. We are already bad so we could just move Murray and start from there. Our only other veterans are Richardson and McDermott and we couldn't get a dirty sock in return for McDermott

If we keep all 4 picks this year we are basically already the Thunder.

Ayton is much better offensively around the basket than you are giving him credit for and he is decent defensively. The more I look at it though, he isn't enough of an upgrade from Poeltl to be worth us paying a max contract and then some. If all we need was to be better at the 5 I would say go for it but we need to get better in soo many more places its not worth it.

Lavine I would like but only if we keep Murray and get another FA who can start. Signing him and letting Murray go is just spinning our wheels. He's not perfect but in the free agent market this year there isn't much choice if you want to get better. He did well with Billy Donovan so he can be coached. I think he suffered from Demar DeRozan-itis this year. No one can reach their full potential playing along side that guy.

Edit:I almost forgot about Pop. He is another reason they have to go for it reasonably soon(this year or next). I honestly dont see him being a G-League training facility like OKC but who knows? Maybe he really sees something in Primo that I dont. He knows more than me.

[G R E Y]

Where to begin.

Well Phreak has been on the move DJ road for a long time as well as on the give Lonnie good graces one. As much as I've had reservations about DJ, some of which rear their head now and again as posted above, he's also emerged as our go-to player and leader. Players who average 21-9-8 don't come along every day. They just don't. I bet if player X on another team averaged that it would be trade DJ for player X. He has his faults, and I still have my heistations, but I've yet to hear a solid argument about why we should just get rid of him, especially for some mystery package that sets us back. More on that in a bit.

The parallel path is the love for Lonnie who is not only one of, if not THE, most inefficient Spur, he ranks LAST IN HIS DRAFT CLASS in contribution per opportunity, and he's been given plenty of it as he's SECOND in usage on the team behind DJ, this as a bench player. So to say that LaVine is 'not much better than Lonnie' is truly minimizing LaVine's game as much as it is lifting or glossing over Lonnie's. Lonnie is stratospheres below LaVine. We're really comparing an All-Star starter guard to an inefficient bench player?

That said, I don't want any of LaVine or his contract. He's reportedly re-signing with Chicago so it's a moot point, but compared to Ayton, if we had the choice of either, it's a no-brainer for the latter: the age at which LaVine starts his contract now would be the age at which Ayton ended this one; the amount of money at which LaVine's upcoming contract starts is more than the amount at which Ayton's would end. LaVine is going to average over $40M per year. It's gross.

But pulling back a bit, I think we're speaking about different POVs in terms of team direction. Ultimately we want to compete for a championship again. Whereas Phreak takes the view of what we should do, I'm focused more on what we should do within the context of what we ARE doing - rebuilding through development while trying to remain competitive.

Phreak mentions the OKC model. So I've looked through the top draft picks over the last 20 years. Which #1 draft picks have LED their teams to a championship? Timmy and LBJ and... that's it!

AD and Wiggins were both #1 picks but neither won as the #1 options on their teams. Both won with LBJ and Curry respectively.

Irving and Love and Howard never won it all as the #1 options on their teams either until they were in supportive roles with LBJ.

So I expanded to the lottery selections of the last 20 years.

Curry was the 7th pick. Klay was 11th. Green was a second round pick. They had some seasoning and system tweaking before they gelled and got to the highest level.

Giannis was selected 15th, so out of the lotto. Khris was drafted in the second round, and Jrue was drafted 17th but he was traded for.

The move from super teams working looks to be changing. The last four finals teams in the last two seasons were largely built, not based on a 'bought' foundation. LAL won the bubble championship, weird circumstances, and before that the previous foundational bought team was seven years prior with the 2013 Heat, defeated by the ultimate team of teams, the 2014 Spurs.

Some may argue about the Warriors of the KD seasons, but a 2016 cap spike adding KD to the core that had already won a championship isn't really the Heat LBJ-Wade-Bosh model, even if it was cheat code in terms of addition of talent. But hey, we wanted to add KD then, too. I don't fault a team for adding to its CORE.

Now let's look at the OKC model itself. This is intentional tanking for the acquisition of assets, stockpiling picks in the hope of landing 'the one'. When has that worked? Seriously, I can't think of an example. Not Philly. Not OKC. Certainly not Sacramento whose non-playoff streak almost mirrors our playoffs streak.

What one team has won it all by going the OKC model? I can't think of a single one. How is this a model we should look to when teams that keep reaching the finals are based on the Spurs model?! Even with former Spurs personnel at the helm and players on their rosters?

Teams that have collected some talent realized that young guys can't stand losing and in order to keep them teams traded for vet help and establishing a better culture so that they could be part of winning programs. And so the Suns with Booker and Ayton and other young talent took on vets CP3 and Crowder, etc. Pels with Ingram, Zion, and Ball did not have a better record than us throughout their time together. Ball left, Zion's body is still crumbling under his weight, and they had to trade for McCollum to get... two more wins than us this season.

Like asking or putting players in positions for woeful seasons for an indeterminate amount of time is a loser mentality, it pisses players off and they want to leave, and sends the wrong message to fans - stick with us while we suuuuck so that maybe at some point we get a unicorn who will want to be a part of the suckitude.

Plus like gump said, a Pop team isn't not going to compete. Pop wondered how Brett Brown lasted as long as he did throughout 'The Process' years in Philly. He couldn't do it. It's a brutal nebulous huge ask for all the participants who are competitive.

This is the first year of a rebuild in over two decades and we were 26th in attendance. This isn't the market that would sustain intentional sucking.

Plus we're about to embark on our 50th Anniversary season. And so when we did better than expected in the first year of our rebuild, on the brink of a historic season, we're supposed to... throw it all away, tank intentionally going against the core of our culture, going backwards in exchange for a mystery package down the road.

What in the world is the appeal? Great drafting and development, great asset and cap management, great culture is what most consistently gets the highest most consistent results, and helps sustain through tribulations.

We did better than expected despite an imbalanced roster and some significant trades and more minutes to more green players. We are in an amazing position with cap space, and we have four picks in this draft. How the OKC model is better in any way defies logic.

That we did better than expected and managed assets and cap well puts us in a position to accelerate the rebuild. That doesn't mean DJ should be the best player on a championship team. It doesn't mean that he'll have the same usage on a championship team. It does mean we balance out the roster with more young talent than than can contribute now alongside DJ (ideally but nobody's untradeable for us), we continue to develop the talent we have, we consolidate assets for opportunities in FA, S&T, and trades. Rather than ONE direction of let's suck and hope we get lucky, we're in a position to go in so many various directions to improve our team.

[Phreak50]

Where to begin.

Well Phreak has been on the move DJ road for a long time as well as on the give Lonnie good graces one. As much as I've had reservations about DJ, some of which rear their head now and again as posted above, he's also emerged as our go-to player and leader. Players who average 21-9-8 don't come along every day. They just don't. I bet if player X on another team averaged that it would be trade DJ for player X. He has his faults, and I still have my heistations, but I've yet to hear a solid argument about why we should just get rid of him, especially for some mystery package that sets us back. More on that in a bit.

The parallel path is the love for Lonnie who is not only one of, if not THE, most inefficient Spur, he ranks LAST IN HIS DRAFT CLASS in contribution per opportunity, and he's been given plenty of it as he's SECOND in usage on the team behind DJ, this as a bench player. So to say that LaVine is 'not much better than Lonnie' is truly minimizing LaVine's game as much as it is lifting or glossing over Lonnie's. Lonnie is stratospheres below LaVine. We're really comparing an All-Star starter guard to an inefficient bench player?

That said, I don't want any of LaVine or his contract. He's reportedly re-signing with Chicago so it's a moot point, but compared to Ayton, if we had the choice of either, it's a no-brainer for the latter: the age at which LaVine starts his contract now would be the age at which Ayton ended this one; the amount of money at which LaVine's upcoming contract starts is more than the amount at which Ayton's would end. LaVine is going to average over $40M per year. It's gross.

But pulling back a bit, I think we're speaking about different POVs in terms of team direction. Ultimately we want to compete for a championship again. Whereas Phreak takes the view of what we should do, I'm focused more on what we should do within the context of what we ARE doing - rebuilding through development while trying to remain competitive.

Phreak mentions the OKC model. So I've looked through the top draft picks over the last 20 years. Which #1 draft picks have LED their teams to a championship? Timmy and LBJ and... that's it!

AD and Wiggins were both #1 picks but neither won as the #1 options on their teams. Both won with LBJ and Curry respectively.

Irving and Love and Howard never won it all as the #1 options on their teams either until they were in supportive roles with LBJ.

So I expected to the lottery selections of the last 20 years.

Curry was the 7th pick. Klay was 11th. Green was a second round pick. They had some seasoning and system tweaking before they gelled and got to the highest level.

Giannis was selected 15th, so out of the lotto. Khris was drafted in the second round, and Jrue was drafted 17th but he was traded for.

The move from super teams working looks to be changing. The last four teams in the last two seasons were largely built, not based on a 'bought' foundation. LAL won the bubble championship, weird circumstances, and prior to that the previous foundational bought team was seven years prior with the 2013 Heat, defeated by the ultimate team of teams, the 2014 Spurs.

Some may argue about the Warriors of the KD seasons, but a 2016 cap spike adding KD to the core that had already won a championship isn't really the Heat LBJ-Wade-Bosh model, even if it was cheat code in terms of addition of talent. But hey, we wanted to add KD then, too. I don't fault a team for adding to its CORE.

Now let's look at the OKC model itself. This is intentional tanking for the acquisition of assets, stockpiling picks in the hope of landing 'the one'. When has that worked? Seriously, I can't think of an example. Not Philly. Not OKC. Certainly not Sacramento whose non-playoff streak almost mirrors our playoffs streak.

What one team has won it all by going the OKC model? I can't think of a single one. How is this a model we should look to when teams that keep reaching the finals are based on the Spurs model?! Even with former Spurs personnel at the helm and players on their rosters?

Teams that have collected some talent realized that young guys can't stand losing and in order to keep them teams traded for vet help and establishing a better culture so that they could be part of winning programs. And so the Suns with Booker and Ayton and other young talent took on vets CP3 and Crowder, etc. Pels with Ingram, Zion, and Ball did not have a better record than us throughout their time together. Ball left, Zion's body is still crumbling under his weight, and they had to trade for McCollum to get... two more wins than us this season.

Like asking or putting players in positions for woeful seasons for an indeterminate amount of time is a loser mentality, it pisses players off and they want to leave, and sends the wrong message to fans - stick with us while we suuuuck so that maybe at some point we get a unicorn who will want to be a part of the suckitude.

Plus like gump said, a Pop team isn't not going to compete. Pop wondered how Brett Brown lasted as long as he did throughout 'The Process' years in Philly. He couldn't do it. It's a brutal nebulous huge ask for all the participants who are competitive.

This is the first year of a rebuild in over two decades and we were 26th in attendance. This isn't the market that would sustain intentional sucking.

Plus we're about to embark on our 50th Anniversary season. And so when we did better than expected in the first year of our rebuild, on the brink of a historic season, we're supposed to... throw it all away, tank intentionally going against the core of our culture, going backwards in exchange for a mystery package down the road.

What in the world is the appeal? Great drafting and development, great asset and cap management, great culture is what most consistently gets the highest most consistent results, and helps sustain through tribulations.

We did better than expected despite an imbalanced roster and some significant trades and more minutes to more green players. We are in an amazing position with cap space, and we have four picks in this draft. How the OKC model is better in any way defies logic.

That we did better than expected and managed assets and cap well puts us in a position to accelerate the rebuild. That doesn't mean DJ should be the best player on a championship team. It doesn't mean that he'll have the same usage on a championship team. It does mean we balance out the roster with more young talent than than can contribute now alongside DJ (ideally but nobody's untradeable for us), we continue to develop the talent we have, we consolidate assets for opportunities in FA, S&T, and trades. Rather than ONE direction of let's suck and hope we get lucky, we're in a position to go in so many various directions to improve our team.

Lavine is one of the guys who perfectly fits the 'empty stats' description in the bball dictionary.

Nothing he does leads to winning.

The way Toronto fans bag out Demar, well Zach is much worse.

I think there are 20 young guards you could give free reign to, who'd look as good as him. Which was my point about him not being much better than Lonnie. When winning doesn't matter (which it hasn't for most of Lavine's career and to be fair, his teams haven't been competitive until Derozan arrived) lots of young guys could throw up shots and get you 20 points. Zach getting a max contract but he's a guy who could never be better than the third best player on a winning playoff team.

Donovan Mitchell is another. He's probably even worse than Zach to be honest.

So yeah, there is no point throwing max money because you have the cap space, at guys who simply aren't worth it.

And I'm still blown away people think Dejounte can be a starting point guard on a successful team.

The guy only cares about his own stats, waves off much better shooters in important situations to shoot his inconsistent pull up and wouldn't know how to be a pass first, 'make your teammates better' point guard if you gave him another 5 years at it.

As fans you need to know when to remove the silver and black tinted glasses and acknowledge these things.

Same with Jakob. Great bloke. An absolute disaster on offense and someone you would never be able to play in the playoffs when the game is close.

How in the world did a guy with decent shooting form, go from being an above average free throw shooter and even hitting the odd corner three in his previous team, to being almost comical on a team with a supposed great shooting coach?

Even Rudy Gobert has kept working on his free throws and tried to remain relevant on offense.

And to a lesser extent, Keldon.

People saying he is a future perennial all-star, a good consolation prize after losing Kawhi etc.

To his credit he has seriously worked on his outside shot. Not to his credit, he still drives and throws up junk like he is at a playground against kids half his size.

[imagump1313]

Lavine is one of the guys who perfectly fits the 'empty stats' description in the bball dictionary.

Nothing he does leads to winning.

The way Toronto fans bag out Demar, well Zach is much worse.

I think there are 20 young guards you could give free reign to, who'd look as good as him. Which was my point about him not being much better than Lonnie. When winning doesn't matter (which it hasn't for most of Lavine's career and to be fair, his teams haven't been competitive until Derozan arrived) lots of young guys could throw up shots and get you 20 points. Zach getting a max contract but he's a guy who could never be better than the third best player on a winning playoff team.

Donovan Mitchell is another. He's probably even worse than Zach to be honest.

So yeah, there is no point throwing max money because you have the cap space, at guys who simply aren't worth it.

And I'm still blown away people think Dejounte can be a starting point guard on a successful team.

The guy only cares about his own stats, waves off much better shooters in important situations to shoot his inconsistent pull up and wouldn't know how to be a pass first, 'make your teammates better' point guard if you gave him another 5 years at it.

As fans you need to know when to remove the silver and black tinted glasses and acknowledge these things.

Same with Jakob. Great bloke. An absolute disaster on offense and someone you would never be able to play in the playoffs when the game is close.

How in the world did a guy with decent shooting form, go from being an above average free throw shooter and even hitting the odd corner three in his previous team, to being almost comical on a team with a supposed great shooting coach?

Even Rudy Gobert has kept working on his free throws and tried to remain relevant on offense.

And to a lesser extent, Keldon.

People saying he is a future perennial all-star, a good consolation prize after losing Kawhi etc.

To his credit he has seriously worked on his outside shot. Not to his credit, he still drives and throws up junk like he is at a playground against kids half his size.

I agree with what you're saying about Lavine. I also agree with Grey that his contract is beyond silly.
He seems to be off the market anyway.

One of the sites I monitor lists their top 50 FA's for this summer and beyond Lavine, there really isn't much that I would be excited about.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/06/top-50-nba-free-agents-of-2022.html

Some lesser and more affordable guys that might be something, but a lot of things would have to happen. Like Dort or Simons. Sexton is interesting but he plays worse defense than our current guys which is pretty bad.

One guy I kind of forgot about and I thought was older then he is would be TJ Warren. He's the kind of guy you could take a chance on if he isn't demanding too much. He probably will never be the same player as he was but he can at least score when someone is actually guarding him. Something this team lacks.

Please, no one tell the Spurs that Bryn Forbes is on that list

[G R E Y]

Spoiler:

Where to begin.

Well Phreak has been on the move DJ road for a long time as well as on the give Lonnie good graces one. As much as I've had reservations about DJ, some of which rear their head now and again as posted above, he's also emerged as our go-to player and leader. Players who average 21-9-8 don't come along every day. They just don't. I bet if player X on another team averaged that it would be trade DJ for player X. He has his faults, and I still have my heistations, but I've yet to hear a solid argument about why we should just get rid of him, especially for some mystery package that sets us back. More on that in a bit.

The parallel path is the love for Lonnie who is not only one of, if not THE, most inefficient Spur, he ranks LAST IN HIS DRAFT CLASS in contribution per opportunity, and he's been given plenty of it as he's SECOND in usage on the team behind DJ, this as a bench player. So to say that LaVine is 'not much better than Lonnie' is truly minimizing LaVine's game as much as it is lifting or glossing over Lonnie's. Lonnie is stratospheres below LaVine. We're really comparing an All-Star starter guard to an inefficient bench player?

That said, I don't want any of LaVine or his contract. He's reportedly re-signing with Chicago so it's a moot point, but compared to Ayton, if we had the choice of either, it's a no-brainer for the latter: the age at which LaVine starts his contract now would be the age at which Ayton ended this one; the amount of money at which LaVine's upcoming contract starts is more than the amount at which Ayton's would end. LaVine is going to average over $40M per year. It's gross.

But pulling back a bit, I think we're speaking about different POVs in terms of team direction. Ultimately we want to compete for a championship again. Whereas Phreak takes the view of what we should do, I'm focused more on what we should do within the context of what we ARE doing - rebuilding through development while trying to remain competitive.

Phreak mentions the OKC model. So I've looked through the top draft picks over the last 20 years. Which #1 draft picks have LED their teams to a championship? Timmy and LBJ and... that's it!

AD and Wiggins were both #1 picks but neither won as the #1 options on their teams. Both won with LBJ and Curry respectively.

Irving and Love and Howard never won it all as the #1 options on their teams either until they were in supportive roles with LBJ.

So I expected to the lottery selections of the last 20 years.

Curry was the 7th pick. Klay was 11th. Green was a second round pick. They had some seasoning and system tweaking before they gelled and got to the highest level.

Giannis was selected 15th, so out of the lotto. Khris was drafted in the second round, and Jrue was drafted 17th but he was traded for.

The move from super teams working looks to be changing. The last four teams in the last two seasons were largely built, not based on a 'bought' foundation. LAL won the bubble championship, weird circumstances, and prior to that the previous foundational bought team was seven years prior with the 2013 Heat, defeated by the ultimate team of teams, the 2014 Spurs.

Some may argue about the Warriors of the KD seasons, but a 2016 cap spike adding KD to the core that had already won a championship isn't really the Heat LBJ-Wade-Bosh model, even if it was cheat code in terms of addition of talent. But hey, we wanted to add KD then, too. I don't fault a team for adding to its CORE.

Now let's look at the OKC model itself. This is intentional tanking for the acquisition of assets, stockpiling picks in the hope of landing 'the one'. When has that worked? Seriously, I can't think of an example. Not Philly. Not OKC. Certainly not Sacramento whose non-playoff streak almost mirrors our playoffs streak.

What one team has won it all by going the OKC model? I can't think of a single one. How is this a model we should look to when teams that keep reaching the finals are based on the Spurs model?! Even with former Spurs personnel at the helm and players on their rosters?

Teams that have collected some talent realized that young guys can't stand losing and in order to keep them teams traded for vet help and establishing a better culture so that they could be part of winning programs. And so the Suns with Booker and Ayton and other young talent took on vets CP3 and Crowder, etc. Pels with Ingram, Zion, and Ball did not have a better record than us throughout their time together. Ball left, Zion's body is still crumbling under his weight, and they had to trade for McCollum to get... two more wins than us this season.

Like asking or putting players in positions for woeful seasons for an indeterminate amount of time is a loser mentality, it pisses players off and they want to leave, and sends the wrong message to fans - stick with us while we suuuuck so that maybe at some point we get a unicorn who will want to be a part of the suckitude.

Plus like gump said, a Pop team isn't not going to compete. Pop wondered how Brett Brown lasted as long as he did throughout 'The Process' years in Philly. He couldn't do it. It's a brutal nebulous huge ask for all the participants who are competitive.

This is the first year of a rebuild in over two decades and we were 26th in attendance. This isn't the market that would sustain intentional sucking.

Plus we're about to embark on our 50th Anniversary season. And so when we did better than expected in the first year of our rebuild, on the brink of a historic season, we're supposed to... throw it all away, tank intentionally going against the core of our culture, going backwards in exchange for a mystery package down the road.

What in the world is the appeal? Great drafting and development, great asset and cap management, great culture is what most consistently gets the highest most consistent results, and helps sustain through tribulations.

We did better than expected despite an imbalanced roster and some significant trades and more minutes to more green players. We are in an amazing position with cap space, and we have four picks in this draft. How the OKC model is better in any way defies logic.

That we did better than expected and managed assets and cap well puts us in a position to accelerate the rebuild. That doesn't mean DJ should be the best player on a championship team. It doesn't mean that he'll have the same usage on a championship team. It does mean we balance out the roster with more young talent than than can contribute now alongside DJ (ideally but nobody's untradeable for us), we continue to develop the talent we have, we consolidate assets for opportunities in FA, S&T, and trades. Rather than ONE direction of let's suck and hope we get lucky, we're in a position to go in so many various directions to improve our team.

Lavine is one of the guys who perfectly fits the 'empty stats' description in the bball dictionary.

Nothing he does leads to winning.

The way Toronto fans bag out Demar, well Zach is much worse.

I think there are 20 young guards you could give free reign to, who'd look as good as him. Which was my point about him not being much better than Lonnie. When winning doesn't matter (which it hasn't for most of Lavine's career and to be fair, his teams haven't been competitive until Derozan arrived) lots of young guys could throw up shots and get you 20 points. Zach getting a max contract but he's a guy who could never be better than the third best player on a winning playoff team.

Donovan Mitchell is another. He's probably even worse than Zach to be honest.

So yeah, there is no point throwing max money because you have the cap space, at guys who simply aren't worth it.

And I'm still blown away people think Dejounte can be a starting point guard on a successful team.

The guy only cares about his own stats, waves off much better shooters in important situations to shoot his inconsistent pull up and wouldn't know how to be a pass first, 'make your teammates better' point guard if you gave him another 5 years at it.

As fans you need to know when to remove the silver and black tinted glasses and acknowledge these things.

Same with Jakob. Great bloke. An absolute disaster on offense and someone you would never be able to play in the playoffs when the game is close.

How in the world did a guy with decent shooting form, go from being an above average free throw shooter and even hitting the odd corner three in his previous team, to being almost comical on a team with a supposed great shooting coach?

Even Rudy Gobert has kept working on his free throws and tried to remain relevant on offense.

And to a lesser extent, Keldon.

People saying he is a future perennial all-star, a good consolation prize after losing Kawhi etc.

To his credit he has seriously worked on his outside shot. Not to his credit, he still drives and throws up junk like he is at a playground against kids half his size.

This I mostly agree with. And thanks for clarifying the LaVine-Lonnie comparison.

I don't know who thinks that DJ, Jakob, and Keldon are indispensable in the core group to take you to a championship sort of way. I do think they're each important in their way, but as you rightly point out, each has holes in his game.

I do see what you mean about DJ asserting being 'the guy'. Frankly early in the season we needed someone to step up. As Pop said before this season began, with four scoring vets gone elsewhere, we had to find out who would step up, largely around a more egalitarian system of everyone contributing more.

And while we benefited from DJ's clutch shots, we didn't from the situations you mentioned when he looked off others to take and miss shots. It is his first season having a much bigger role on O, balancing that with dependable D. He was also leading a mostly young team, another bigger role. So it's a lot to adjust to and he still put up great numbers of 21/9/8. Was it stat hunting at times? Ok, sure. Were they empty stats? I don't think so. His O rating was 113, D rating 108, a second best differential after Jakob. He has the second best win shares after Jakob as well. He has the best offensive and defensive box plus/minus, and his Value Over Replacement Player is best on the team by a wide margin of 4.4 (second is Jakob at 1.7).

Now all of that is also a function of his being the best and most experienced of the young guys on a team in its first year of a rebuild. Credit where it's due, but at the same time, frankly speaking, he's not the 'best player on a championship team' level of player. His recent post shown a few posts above about his working too hard and wanting to win is a case of his being the best player on a rebuilding team, and we have to wonder whether he has a firm grasp on the context.

I think back to when he first returned from injury and was struggling as a starter and Pop put Derrick back in the starting line-up (this after he started the entire time DJ was away and didn't complain at all to being back on the bench). Eight games in and DJ deleted all his Pop photos and unfollowed the Spurs on social media You hope he's matured since then, but then he posts that one above and it makes you wonder.

Would DJ adjust his game should we sign some quality FAs or trade for some quality players we need to incorporate to the O? Can he defer to better players? So even if we speed up the rebuild to bring in more win-now players (without sacrificing the future) I hope he's willing to no longer be the best player on a better team. We'll see.

Jakob. I've already posted where he fares in stats related to winning. Yet as you've rightly pointed out, his O deficiencies are ones we are forced to work around, trying to make the best of his strengths. He is averaging a near double double of 13/9 but it's also as a starter with more minutes and higher usage. Efficiency is at about the same high rate. I checked his output on 3s - never took one in his two years in Utah. In his two years in TO he attempted two heaves, making one; in his four years since with us he's made the lone half court heave he attempted. So that's three attempts in six years.

FTs. In his first year in Utah he averaged 44.4%; second, 68.9% - the best of his career. Since then, he's never reached an average starting with a .600. The closest he came was in 2017-18 with 59.4%. Since then he's hovered around 50%, but twice averaging below that with us. Yeah it's a huge frustration with weird one-handed releases, a slight hitch, the ball going left, right, back and front rim. Even Pop's spoken out in frustration about it in interviews, something he rarely does. You could see his frustration on the sidelines, and he leaves Jakob in to deal with hack-a-Jak at times as well. It's a huge impediment - a basic fundamental aspect of basketball that Jakob can't seem to get a handle on. Nine years on, if he hasn't improved yet...

We're very good at maximizing strengths and limiting weaknesses be it by improving or hiding them, but there's no doubt that working with a C who can both hit 3s and FTs opens up our possibilities, and there's no doubt that we're limited by Jakob's O even if he's one of the best defenders in the game.

Overall, Ayton is an upgrade at C and has the better numbers on 3s, FTs (about 25% better!), and better on/off numbers this season. We're in the mix, with Jakob likely going the other way. Jakob has been involved in some trade rumours but teams haven't given what we asked. This would be an upgrade, though I do worry a bit about Ayton being coachable. If he's resistant to Monty who's super likeable, how would he respond to a more stern Pop? Maybe it's what he needs. And Pop knows how to adjust to get the best out of players, too.

According to Pincus, some sources believe that the Spurs (Jakob Poeltl), Bulls (Nikola Vucevic), Hawks (Clint Capela/John Collins), and Pacers (Myles Turner) are among the teams that could be willing to move their current centers in a package for one of the offseason’s top available big men (Ayton, Rudy Gobert, etc.).

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/06/fa-trade-rumors-ayton-centers-turner-beal-saric-lakers.html#comments

The rumours will change more frequently the closer we get to the event.

Love Jakob but I think PATFO realizes we're on the cusp of maximizing what we can get from him on O and we likely need an upgrade to get to the next level.

Keldon improved his 3s from a woeful 25% to near the top of the league in efficiency. Credit to him also for no longer being a black hole on O in that early in the season when the ball went to him it wasn't going to anyone else lol He just wouldn't keep it moving and would shoot it. He got better in moving it along, got better in how he finished at the rim, no longer bulldozing through players. Reportedly PATFO loves him, and he made a big leap from rookie to bubble starter to now full-time starter.

His D is questionable even though he's good at rebounding and blocking. We need him to be a more dedicated defender. He's 6'6" with a 6'9.25" wingspan which isn't huge but his bulky build and strong low center of gravity allowed him to guard much bigger players well in the post (we had him walling off Zion!).

We'll see how much to his game he can show as he's actually developed and impressed in each of his seasons.

But you're right in that these are not the main players on a championship level team. They are, however, high level players that can surround top players. Like if our team has an A1 three-level scoring player, the surrounding cast is excellent even as it stands. But we have to use some of them for potential upgrades. That's just the reality of upgrading a team to being more competitive. As it stands, nobody is untradeable from a talent POV. And in terms of character, we have a solid group of good and competitive guys so I'm not worried about trading pieces or acquiring pieces who get acclimated and adjust to our culture. Talent. We need talent upgrades, and luckily we're well positioned to make improvements.

Jakob seems like the most likely candidate of the three right now. He's been in trade rumours before, due for his third contract after we got a bargain on his second, and his weaknesses are what they are. Have we reached the limit of his O game and if we make upgrades elsewhere can he an integral part of a higher level team? Teams who had better records than us think so. Then again, Looney, for example, drafted in 2016 like DJ and Jakob, averages 6/7/2 and 60%FT and he was an important part of their defensive line and at times contributing double doubles.

Very curious how PATFO proceed but if we see what we do, I'm sure they do and more. One thing's for sure: we're going to be a better team coming into this season.

EDIT: Hahaha gump we were both looking at Hoopshype! Yeah good real time rumour candy for the sweet tooth this time of year!

[G R E Y]

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