Better player right now: Jayson Tatum or Jimmy Butler?

[Woodsanity]

Butler and its not particularly close either at least in the playoffs.
Tatum is a mid level all star. Butler plays like a borderline superstar in the playoffs.

[Woodsanity]

Much better shooter from distance. Long 2s and 3s are very heavily in Tatum's favor. Jimmy Butler doesn't shoot 3s.

Maybe, but Tatum still feels really streaky to me. Butler’s overall scoring seems much more robust to me in the postseason, so the lesser shooting isn’t as big a deal to me.

Jimmy Butler has shot 24% from 3 point territory for 3 seasons in a row, and only makes .5 3s per game. That is way worse than Tatum even when Tatum is having an off night.

Butler 60.5 TS%, PER 29.9
Tatum 56 TS%, PER 17.6

Its not close. Tatum is far worse.

[dontcalltimeout]

He had a better PS run but you could argue that you like Tatum's shooting on a multitude of teams more because he can maybe fit in easier to certain offenses.

That's something to be concerned about with role players imo, not when it is a top 10 player who has now shown repeatedly he can carry an offense effectively. Tatum has shown flashes but he can't do it consistently and I'd give both the defensive and playmaking edge to Butler as well.

I guess, I mean matchups matter too. Last year, Butler's performance against the Bucks was worse than anything we saw from Tatum this year. Heck, I would argue Celtics have more offensive firepower, but you look at their PS rORTG, and Boston was actually slightly better

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Their defense is pretty darn close to me. I won't argue about Butler being a better playmaker. Though, I do wonder if Tatum is potentially a better scorer (although he wasn't this PS).

Just want to add - if you look at the relative ORTG and DRTG only for when Butler and Tatum are on the court the comparison looks a lot closer.

Below you can see the comparison of on-court rORTG and rDRTG. I just used the season long averages, so Brooklyn's offense is getting underrated and Milwaukee's offense (without Khris) is getting overrated. Still, it shows the comparison is not as straight forward as the team-level efficiencies show.

[HeartBreakKid]

Maybe, but Tatum still feels really streaky to me. Butler’s overall scoring seems much more robust to me in the postseason, so the lesser shooting isn’t as big a deal to me.

Jimmy Butler has shot 24% from 3 point territory for 3 seasons in a row, and only makes .5 3s per game. That is way worse than Tatum even when Tatum is having an off night.

Butler 60.5 TS%, PER 29.9
Tatum 56 TS%, PER 17.6

Its not close. Tatum is far worse.

Far worse at what...? Efficiency is not shooting ability.

Gobert has better TS% than both of them and it's not close, does that mean that they can't shoot as well as Gobert?


To quote you, it isn't close - Tatum is a far better shooter. I can't believe people are debating this saying words like "maybe" or citing Tatum is a "streaky shooter" in a comparison with one of the few perimeter players who can't shoot 3s lol. That is a very reasonable thing that Tatum has over Butler and quite frankly there is no objective evidence in Butler's favor. PER is not relevant....

[youngcrev]

I never know how to rank Jimmy. He's an all star level talent that's able to step his game up to take over at superstar levels at times. I do think there's an element of "everyone standing around watching" when he's doing his thing. It's like when he goes on these heaters, it's not within the confines of the offense, and I think his teammates tend to look like **** in the process. It's Luka/LeBron ball, minus the elite passing/vision.

Tough call. Tatum is probably more talented/skilled. Jimmy's mindset makes it tough to pick against him though. He punches above his weight.

[No-more-rings]

Jimmy Butler has shot 24% from 3 point territory for 3 seasons in a row, and only makes .5 3s per game. That is way worse than Tatum even when Tatum is having an off night.

Butler 60.5 TS%, PER 29.9
Tatum 56 TS%, PER 17.6

Its not close. Tatum is far worse.

Far worse at what...? Efficiency is not shooting ability.

Gobert has better TS% than both of them and it's not close, does that mean that they can't shoot as well as Gobert?


To quote you, it isn't close - Tatum is a far better shooter. I can't believe people are debating this saying words like "maybe" or citing Tatum is a "streaky shooter" in a comparison with one of the few perimeter players who can't shoot 3s lol. That is a very reasonable thing that Tatum has over Butler and quite frankly there is no objective evidence in Butler's favor. PER is not relevant....

Wait so what all are you arguing here? That Tatum shoots better, fine. That he’s a better all around player? I can’t see it.

[Ginoboleee]

This thread, and the current results, are quite interesting.

Regular Season: Tatum is great, Butler is good.
Playoffs: Tatum was good, Butler was great.

Seems like around here practically all assessments require statistical backup, but I am new (so I get a pass), and I figure those descriptions are quite obvious.

Thus the results (Butler ahead, but close enough overall) suggests that this board values the playoffs MUCH more than the regular season.

Fair interpretation?

While it is obvious that the playoffs are at least a bit more important, should they be weighted SO MUCH more that the regular season fades from view?

Because if playoffs are that much more important, then in the endless (unresolvable) greatness debates I am reading here, shouldn't the playoff stats become the primary focus of most comparisons, and the regular season stats used as a tiebreaker or icing on the cake?
(I had gotten the sense that the opposite tended to occur, for better or for worse.)

I hope somebody replies to this noob.
I may not speak stats, but I am open-minded for an oldie.

[penbeast0]

It depends on the criteria of the poster. People weigh RS and PS results differently and right now, the PS results are very fresh in people's mind and so players like Butler and Wiggins are getting a bit of extra love. If you want to see more, check out one of our long term projects (top 100 or RPOTY probably the best) for people making this debate more explicit. Projects are stickied at the top of the PC Board page.

[dribble1614]

based on the playoffs, butler quite easily. had a different opinion on the regular season but butler took his game to a different level of superstardom while tatum shrinked and played at merely an all-star level.

[LukaTheGOAT]

This thread, and the current results, are quite interesting.

Regular Season: Tatum is great, Butler is good.
Playoffs: Tatum was good, Butler was great.

Seems like around here practically all assessments require statistical backup, but I am new (so I get a pass), and I figure those descriptions are quite obvious.

Thus the results (Butler ahead, but close enough overall) suggests that this board values the playoffs MUCH more than the regular season.

Fair interpretation?

While it is obvious that the playoffs are at least a bit more important, should they be weighted SO MUCH more that the regular season fades from view?

Because if playoffs are that much more important, then in the endless (unresolvable) greatness debates I am reading here, shouldn't the playoff stats become the primary focus of most comparisons, and the regular season stats used as a tiebreaker or icing on the cake?
(I had gotten the sense that the opposite tended to occur, for better or for worse.)

I hope somebody replies to this noob.
I may not speak stats, but I am open-minded for an oldie.

Every poster is different, but I do think people here, do place a premium on PS performance. We see this come up a lot in POY voting on this site or when arguing when a player peaked.

Recency bias is also a possibility, and Tatum having a horrific Finals for his standards could also be lowering people's opinions on him.

[HighFlyer23]

Butler is a playoff monster and a seasoned veteran in his prime

Tatum is not close to Jimmy Buckets