Draft Thread - Kings move up to #4

[OxAndFox]

How I see the starting 5 shaping up as of today

Davion
Fox
Barnes
Murray
Sabonis

Fox runs the point on offense, Davion primary ball defender on defense. Barnes and Murray eventually become interchangeable and Sabonis is the conductor that brings everything together.

This highly depends on what step Fox takes next season.

Will he conform and stay the same? Or will he take the next step and level up? A lot of responsibility comes down to him. A lot of it comes down to him whether or not this team sinks or float, imo.

If I ignore the obvious size disadvantage, I don’t mind seeing a Davion & Fox backcourt. I think it can work out if you put the right pieces around.

But still, I would look for another guard in the off-season that can defend and shoot.

If DDV can regain his form, that would be great. DDV was a starting player for those champion Buck teams.

You answered your own question. DDV's shot will come back to him no problems. Think about it, he wasn't just coming back from his injury, he was playing for his life too. (bit dramatic?)
Monte will give him some security, hopefully Davis too and all of a sudden the outside shooting and perimeter D looks just fine.

Guys, remember how Davis was playing earlier in the season prior to his injury? He was hitting 3s and defending like a dog. That's the Davis we will get this season. If Monte gives him some security then he will definitely loosen up and buy in.

[jeffjtk1234]

Man…i just can’t comprehend picking a guy at 4 who cannot create offense for himself or play make. Hes also not explosive at all. Plus we trade 37 with liddell on the board.

Ivey was the easy pick. This team is so lost.


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I mean he's not a number one option but you don't score 24 ppg on the efficiency he did without having some ability to create, he had a higher usage rate than Ivey did. I really don't see in Ivey what a lot of other people do, I see Oladipo with less defense. He's definitely not Ja. Keegan plays winning basketball and is going to help this team in a lot of ways.

Watch his film tho. His handle needs a lot of work, he’s got slow feet, he really cannot create for himself in the half court much at all. The fact that he “doesn’t need to do that here” doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

I like him but i think he’s a higher end starter long term like Tobias Harris or a better Otto porter jr. Iunno if i like that at 4 but we’ll see.


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[LightTheBeam]

Watch his film tho. His handle needs a lot of work, he’s got slow feet, he really cannot create for himself in the half court much at all. The fact that he “doesn’t need to do that here” doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

I like him but i think he’s a higher end starter long term like Tobias Harris or a better Otto porter jr. Iunno if i like that at 4 but we’ll see.


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Better/healthy prime OPJ is a pretty damn good player.

Tobias Harris with defense on a rookie contract is also really good.

But I think you are selling him short. He doesn't necessarily beat his man off the dribble, but he has an excellent touch around the basket. He seems to have some post moves. He has a really good sense/IQ, always seems to be in the right position. I also think his athleticism is being downplayed, sure he isn't Miles Bridges but he can run and get up.

Compare him to rookie Tobias/OPJ, those guys didn't finish around the rim nearly as well as Murray does.

Watch on YouTube

[jeffjtk1234]

Watch his film tho. His handle needs a lot of work, he’s got slow feet, he really cannot create for himself in the half court much at all. The fact that he “doesn’t need to do that here” doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

I like him but i think he’s a higher end starter long term like Tobias Harris or a better Otto porter jr. Iunno if i like that at 4 but we’ll see.


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Better/healthy prime OPJ is a pretty damn good player.

Tobias Harris with defense on a rookie contract is also really good.

But I think you are selling him short. He doesn't necessarily beat his man off the dribble, but he has an excellent touch around the basket. He seems to have some post moves. He has a really good sense/IQ, always seems to be in the right position. I also think his athleticism is being downplayed, sure he isn't Miles Bridges but he can run and get up.

Compare him to rookie Tobias/OPJ, those guys didn't finish around the rim nearly as well as Murray does.

Watch on YouTube

First it’s good to see some of us old timers still visiting the realgm forums. Class of 2006 here lol.

Second, you make some good points and i guess we’ll see where this goes. I’m optimistic but cautiously. I like him i just don’t know his ceiling which may be a good thing.


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[LightTheBeam]

Watch his film tho. His handle needs a lot of work, he’s got slow feet, he really cannot create for himself in the half court much at all. The fact that he “doesn’t need to do that here” doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

I like him but i think he’s a higher end starter long term like Tobias Harris or a better Otto porter jr. Iunno if i like that at 4 but we’ll see.


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Better/healthy prime OPJ is a pretty damn good player.

Tobias Harris with defense on a rookie contract is also really good.

But I think you are selling him short. He doesn't necessarily beat his man off the dribble, but he has an excellent touch around the basket. He seems to have some post moves. He has a really good sense/IQ, always seems to be in the right position. I also think his athleticism is being downplayed, sure he isn't Miles Bridges but he can run and get up.

Compare him to rookie Tobias/OPJ, those guys didn't finish around the rim nearly as well as Murray does.

Watch on YouTube

First it’s good to see some of us old timers still visiting the realgm forums. Class of 2006 here lol.

Second, you make some good points and i guess we’ll see where this goes. I’m optimistic but cautiously. I like him i just don’t know his ceiling which may be a good thing.


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Always glad to see you OG's pop in from time to time. I'm hoping Kings prove us all wrong and the board is active again at some point!

Right now none of us know with Murray, so I'm just trying to stay optimistic. If we get the best version of Fox next year, Sabonis shows us hes a true star, and some depth so Barnes isn't gassed out by Christmas (LOL).. Maybe just maybe they will be playing some meaningful basketball in April.

[8305]

Sabonis will be a great guy for Murray to play with on offense. Wonder how it will work on defense? You need a 6’7” davion Mitchell kind of player at the 3. Gotta think you will be better in 22-23. I agree it’s largely on Fox.

[blind prophet]

Sabonis will be a great guy for Murray to play with on offense. Wonder how it will work on defense? You need a 6’7” davion Mitchell kind of player at the 3. Gotta think you will be better in 22-23. I agree it’s largely on Fox.

Well we have Barnes and Murray. They'll just match up on whoever. But that's our 3&4. Supposedly Murray is a good defender at either position. Barnes is all right defensively too.

I'm not worried about the D at all.

[rpa]

Watch his film tho. His handle needs a lot of work, he’s got slow feet, he really cannot create for himself in the half court much at all. The fact that he “doesn’t need to do that here” doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

I like him but i think he’s a higher end starter long term like Tobias Harris or a better Otto porter jr. Iunno if i like that at 4 but we’ll see.

First, I'd say being able to create for oneself is valuable, but not an end all, be all. There are loads of players who can create for themselves, but don't actually help teams win.

Second, Ivey was crazy overrated as a prospect (I said before in this thread that I didn't like him for a variety of reasons). The people comparing him to Ja, Westbrook, Wall, et al are out of their minds and completely ignore that all of their glowing comparisons are purely on athletic ability and completely ignore vast differences in their games. IMO Ivey projects as a poor man's Colin Sexton unless his growth curve is 99th percentile like Westbrook's was.

Last, I'm still not sure what to say about Murray--and it's been that way for most of the past 6 months. He doesn't wow me in the way that some of Ivey's highlights do (for example), but I also don't see a ton of huge weaknesses either. He's crazy efficient, high IQ, good shooting, multi-positional.


Overall I think the Kings were in a tough position with the #4 pick: they didn't want Ivey, but they'd have lost Murray by trading down.

[LightTheBeam]

Well we have Barnes and Murray. They'll just match up on whoever. But that's our 3&4. Supposedly Murray is a good defender at either position. Barnes is all right defensively too.

I'm not worried about the D at all.

I can't say I'm as confident as you are defensively. Id say this is definitely an improved team defensively. People focus too much on rim protection, don't get me wrong its still important. But IMO the current NBA is far more perimeter oriented, focus on stopping guys at the point of attack and defending the 3. Teams shoot 40 3's a game. Hopefully Mitchell will help in that aspect, having Murray/Barnes as two switchable forwards should help as well.

I'm just hoping for steady improvement. If this team is middle of the pack next year that will be a massive improvement to the Walton era.

[codydaze]

Well we have Barnes and Murray. They'll just match up on whoever. But that's our 3&4. Supposedly Murray is a good defender at either position. Barnes is all right defensively too.

I'm not worried about the D at all.

I can't say I'm as confident as you are defensively. Id say this is definitely an improved team defensively. People focus too much on rim protection, don't get me wrong its still important. But IMO the current NBA is far more perimeter oriented, focus on stopping guys at the point of attack and defending the 3. Teams shoot 40 3's a game. Hopefully Mitchell will help in that aspect, having Murray/Barnes as two switchable forwards should help as well.

I'm just hoping for steady improvement. If this team is middle of the pack next year that will be a massive improvement to the Walton era.

If we start Davion then I'd like to see us go after another point guard just because I'm not comfortable with DDV as the primary ballhandler in that second unit. Of course you can stagger Davion and Fox but there are going to be times where both of them on the bench. Either look for another point guard in FA or start Fox/DDV in the backcourt in my opinion.

[LightTheBeam]

Well we have Barnes and Murray. They'll just match up on whoever. But that's our 3&4. Supposedly Murray is a good defender at either position. Barnes is all right defensively too.

I'm not worried about the D at all.

I can't say I'm as confident as you are defensively. Id say this is definitely an improved team defensively. People focus too much on rim protection, don't get me wrong its still important. But IMO the current NBA is far more perimeter oriented, focus on stopping guys at the point of attack and defending the 3. Teams shoot 40 3's a game. Hopefully Mitchell will help in that aspect, having Murray/Barnes as two switchable forwards should help as well.

I'm just hoping for steady improvement. If this team is middle of the pack next year that will be a massive improvement to the Walton era.

If we start Davion then I'd like to see us go after another point guard just because I'm not comfortable with DDV as the primary ballhandler in that second unit. Of course you can stagger Davion and Fox but there are going to be times where both of them on the bench. Either look for another point guard in FA or start Fox/DDV in the backcourt in my opinion.

Ya it's not terrible to have a 3rd ball handler either way. Id say with Sabonis we can run the offense in very limited spurts with DDV/Davis playing the guard spots.

It will just depend how Brown operates. Walton didn't understand the concept of staggering your best players minutes. Alvin said he did, but his actions proved he didn't

[Curtis Lemansky]

What's the expectation about Mitchell? Will he start and get 30+ mpg or more like a 20 + mpg bench player?

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[OxAndFox]

Well we have Barnes and Murray. They'll just match up on whoever. But that's our 3&4. Supposedly Murray is a good defender at either position. Barnes is all right defensively too.

I'm not worried about the D at all.

I can't say I'm as confident as you are defensively. Id say this is definitely an improved team defensively. People focus too much on rim protection, don't get me wrong its still important. But IMO the current NBA is far more perimeter oriented, focus on stopping guys at the point of attack and defending the 3. Teams shoot 40 3's a game. Hopefully Mitchell will help in that aspect, having Murray/Barnes as two switchable forwards should help as well.

I'm just hoping for steady improvement. If this team is middle of the pack next year that will be a massive improvement to the Walton era.

Barnes is the worst defender in the NBA on close out 3s. I'm hoping that has been a motivation thing because he is better than that and I'm sure it will get better as it is an important aspect.

[OxAndFox]

What's the expectation about Mitchell? Will he start and get 30+ mpg or more like a 20 + mpg bench player?

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I think he will force his way into the starting line-up.
He played almost 28mpg last season so I don't see why he won't go above 30 this coming season TBH.

[codydaze]

What's the expectation about Mitchell? Will he start and get 30+ mpg or more like a 20 + mpg bench player?

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Might not be mutually exclusive. I can see a situation where he comes off the bench but still plays 30+ minutes a night and is in closing lineups depending on the situation.

[LightTheBeam]

Insight from Jeremy Woo of SI. Indiana wanted to trade up to 4 for murray. Offered Sac 6 + Duarte for #4 and we rejected.

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[jazanetti]

I keep thinking that we made the same huge mistake again. Passed on top level talent to pick another guy who fits with Fox.
While I'm not a fan of Ivey.
And moving out Hardy for nothing (two future #50) makes me really frustrated with Monte's work again.
Does anyone know if Vezenkov wants to play in NBA? He was one of the best in Europe last season.

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[BoogieTime]

I keep thinking that we made the same huge mistake again. Passed on top level talent to pick another guy who fits with Fox.
While I'm not a fan of Ivey.
And moving out Hardy for nothing (two future #50) makes me really frustrated with Monte's work again.
Does anyone know if Vezenkov wants to play in NBA? He was one of the best in Europe last season.

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Fox? What about Davion (or DDV) who might be a starter or Domas?

Team also is win now, hence the floor of Murray.

[KF10]

If Mitchell can embrace the Marcus Smart role, that would be great. But I think he sees himself as a starter, especially for this team.

I can't blame him. Fox is his main competition. I highly doubt the Kings will move Fox to the bench. Unless the Kings are thinking to play Fox & Mitchell backcourt more often, I can't help but think at some point next season or the next, Mitchell will want to play for a team that views him as a starter.

If the Kings are looking for a starting 2 guard in the offseason, this pretty much signals Mitchell to the bench. Not sure how Mitchell react to this, imo.

[City of Trees]

If the Kings are looking for a starting 2 guard in the offseason, this pretty much signals Mitchell to the bench. Not sure how Mitchell react to this, imo.

When Davion hits RFA he will be close to turning 28 years old. He gets one opportunity to sign a big contract I can't imagine him happy buried on the Kings bench.