The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[Chi town]

1. Minny will have better future asset offers from other teams. If they were thinking win now then Taj and Jimmy are great pieces. I don't see them accepting this offer unless Bulls toss in more draft picks (possibly future 1st rounders and not necessarily this years).

2. This is only possible if Melo makes it known he wants out and wants to come to Chicago. Even still I'm iffy on it. Phil will probably want to win ASAP. Course again it's moot IF Melo makes it known he wants out.

3. No way Lakers do that for the #7 pick. Yes people are high on Nikola Mirotic, but there's a few players that may be available for them to take (Smart, Vonleh, Randle, Gordon). They don't have a lot of history with international players ( Divac, Medvedenko, Vujacic were some).

4. If in the unlikely scenario that the Bulls obtain the #7 pick, I would not be for a two for one swap for a later round player.

1. Minny wants to get into the playoffs and the draft hasn't worked out to well for them. They are not enamored (who really knows or if its smoke and mirrors) with BOS picks. With Bulls they get two starters, a potential really good pick from SAC, and dump a bad contract. They probably make the playoffs next season. Coldfish and I agree.

2. Rumors are PJ doesn't want to pay Melo the max and is asking for him to take less to win. I think PJ will be smart and tear the whole thing down and rebuild it the right way.... the only time that has happened in NYK history.

3. If Vonleh and Randle are off the board (IMO they will be) then I see no reason why the Lakers wouldn't want NIko. They want to ship their pick for proven vet and NIko is the best they can do with big time potential the ability to play heavy mins from day one.

4. I would. At 7 only Randle or Smart will be available and we already have Love at PF so no Randle. Smart doesn't do much for us in terms of spreading the floor. Harris would be the perfect fit with his 3 ball and defense, with Jimmy gone. Moving back gets a backup big for Noah and Love which we will need.


I know this won't happen. My point is we have the assets and the "value" aligns in such a way where if everything aligns it could feasibly happen.

[SteelerSpartan]

Sorry don't put much credence into a playoff series when we had that much salary missing from the lineup.

I don't necessarily need it to prove a point here. Butler, Noah and Taj have never been good scorers at the collegiate or NBA level. It's just not their strength. The team doesn't need to hope and pray for it to become a strength anymore. They just need to get players who can do that job and balance the team out so they aren't calling on defensive players to score points.

I think it's just as big a prayer/hope that we beat the Miami's and spurs of the world at their own game(out offensing and star powering them) on their terms given who we have leading this team(Rose,thibs)

[Red Larrivee]

I think it's just as big a prayer/hope that we beat the Miami's and spurs of the world at their own game(out offensing and star powering them) on their terms given who we have leading this team(Rose,thibs)

We aren't trying to beat them at their own game, we are trying to improve our talent. Miami and San Antonio are not the first teams to feature multiple stars.

We aren't going to grind out Miami to 4 wins when it matters deep in the playoffs. It just doesn't work. If Chicago can improve their overall talent and execute Thibodeau's game plan, then they will have a great shot. Right now, all they can do is execute the game plan.

[SteelerSpartan]

I think it's just as big a prayer/hope that we beat the Miami's and spurs of the world at their own game(out offensing and star powering them) on their terms given who we have leading this team(Rose,thibs)

We aren't trying to beat them at their own game, we are trying to improve our talent. Miami and San Antonio are not the first teams to feature multiple stars.

We aren't going to grind out Miami to 4 wins when it matters deep in the playoffs. It just doesn't work. If Chicago can improve their overall talent and execute Thibodeau's game plan, then they will have a great shot. Right now, all they can do is execute the game plan.

no with a lot of these trade proposals we are swapping our Defensive talent and what we do best for offensive talent that will probably never be as good as others and certainly won't be executed as well as theirs

[damecurry]

All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo

Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?

I don't see what you're not getting here. Rose and Melo or Love will average about 45 points a game. Add that to the 67 and your talking 112 points. This would still be one of, if not the, most dominant defenses in the league. It doesn't need a Chris Bosh as the third scoring option. Please point out to me the fourth scoring option on the heat, thunder, rockets, clippers that are significantly better than any of these 3? Ray Allen? Terrance Jones? DeAndre Or JJ? Serge Ibaka?
No, none of them are elite, ideal 3rd or fourth offensive options. They are all elite defensive stoppers with the best defensive mind in basketball coaching them. Why do they need to be great on offense? How does 45 ppg not completely change this team's offense and scoring ability?

[Red Larrivee]

no with a lot of these trade proposals we are swapping our Defensive talent and what we do best for offensive talent that will probably never be as good as others and certainly won't be executed as well theirs

Carmelo and Love are two of the best offensive talents in the game. How wouldn't they be as good as others? In these trades the Bulls are getting the better players in return. In some miracle world where we did get Melo and Love in the same offseason, Chicago would have arguably three top 10 players in the game, not to mention Joakim Noah in the middle.

Talent matters and Chicago would flat out steamroll teams as long as the chemistry clicked.

[Ben]

it doesn't matter that they used to be elite. they're not anymore. and they're favorites to win the championship. zero superstars. just like detroit ten years ago. it's not a common occurrence, but it's a more common scenario than acquiring carmelo anthony

They traded a 21-year-old Al Jefferson among other things

uh huh. for kevin freaking garnett and ray allen exiting their primes. both of which were better than carmelo anthony (garnett by a mile)

it took chauncey billups leading the way to get melo to the WCF, for god's sake

I don't have a big dog in this fight--actually, I'd be happy to get Melo/Niko or Love/stuff-- but I think you're being a bit unfair here. Melo was only 24 when it "took" Billups joining "to get Melo to the WCF"; it's not as if Melo had been laboring for 10-15 years by that time.

By that framing, it "took" KG and Ray Allen to get Pierce to the finals. I think Pierce's team made the ECF one year, that incredibly mediocre year when the Nets won the EC. Other that that, Pierce took his teams to pretty middling levels. It took the addition of 2 superstars plus a very young Rondo-- let's not forget Rondo-- to get prime Pierce even ONE title. (And you've already said that KG was a mile better than Melo... but he only won 1 title [and went to the finals twice] with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo.)

I'm not trying to diss Pierce. He was a terrific player-- he's still pretty good-- and those Celtics were excellent, too. But Pierce didn't win anything until he was 30 and surrounded by a group of bona fide stars. If we don't hold that against him, why should you hold Melo's teams' playoff records against him? Melo is 30 now too...

[Red Larrivee]

I don't see what you're not getting here. Rose and Melo or Love will average about 45 points a game. Add that to the 67 and your talking 112 points. This would still be one of, if not the, most dominant defenses in the league. It doesn't need a Chris Bosh as the third scoring option. Please point out to me the fourth scoring option on the heat, thunder, rockets, clippers that are significantly better than any of these 3? Ray Allen? Terrance Jones? DeAndre Or JJ? Serge Ibaka?
No, none of them are elite, ideal 3rd or fourth offensive options. They are all elite defensive stoppers with the best defensive mind in basketball coaching them. Why do they need to be great on offense? How does 45 ppg not completely change this team's offense and scoring ability?

Taj and Butler would not be here if Chicago had Love and Carmelo. Noah would probably be fine as the 4th scorer, as his scoring opportunities would be limited to dunks and cleanup points.

[boozapalooza]

All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo

Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?

I don't see what you're not getting here. Rose and Melo or Love will average about 45 points a game. Add that to the 67 and your talking 112 points. This would still be one of, if not the, most dominant defenses in the league. It doesn't need a Chris Bosh as the third scoring option. Please point out to me the fourth scoring option on the heat, thunder, rockets, clippers that are significantly better than any of these 3? Ray Allen? Terrance Jones? DeAndre Or JJ? Serge Ibaka?
No, none of them are elite, ideal 3rd or fourth offensive options. They are all elite defensive stoppers with the best defensive mind in basketball coaching them. Why do they need to be great on offense? How does 45 ppg not completely change this team's offense and scoring ability?

Just to clarify it's not 45 points a game added to our offense. Rose will probably average 8-10 more than DJ did, Love will score probably 6-8 more than Boozer/Taj did. Not to mention with them taking more shots, others will score less. All in all adding Rose and Love to our team will take us from the 93.7 we averaged this past season to around 100 per game.

[Mattchoo]

Can we bring back Deng if we got Love?

I have no desire for us to keep Mirotic if we have Love.



Taj, MDJ, Mirotic, Sac Pick for Love. Include unguaranteed players for bad contracts. Amnesty Boozer. Sign Deng with any cap space

Use our two 2014 picks wisely.

Not near salary worksheet... But thats what id like and my proposal assumes MINN wants to win now and not a billion mid to late first rd picks








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[dice]

Melo was only 24 when it "took" Billups joining "to get Melo to the WCF"; it's not as if Melo had been laboring for 10-15 years by that time.

melo was in his prime. billups was past his. and billups was the main catalyst for them going to the WCF. melo has never led a team anywhere. why should we expect that to change?

(And you've already said that KG was a mile better than Melo... but he only won 1 title [and went to the finals twice] with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo.)

he was past his prime when he went to the Cs and still was 3rd in the MVP voting. he got to the WCF with sam cassell and latrell sprewell. he's had a career on the level of tim duncan without the supporting casts over the long haul. carmelo had one of his best seasons this year and didn't make 3rd team all-NBA

Pierce. He was a terrific player-- he's still pretty good-- and those Celtics were excellent, too. But Pierce didn't win anything until he was 30 and surrounded by a group of bona fide stars. If we don't hold that against him, why should you hold Melo's teams' playoff records against him? Melo is 30 now too...

pierce's supporting casts were inferior to melo's prior to the big trade

[TheGameChanger]

I Want Martin along with Love in any deal. Also no to both Mirotic and Butler in Any Deal. 1 or the other. Also I came up with this deal the other day

Bulls Get - Love,Martin
Minny Get - Boozer,Picks 9,16,19,Kings Pick, Rights to Mirotic
Bobcats Get - Gibson

[damecurry]

I don't see what you're not getting here. Rose and Melo or Love will average about 45 points a game. Add that to the 67 and your talking 112 points. This would still be one of, if not the, most dominant defenses in the league. It doesn't need a Chris Bosh as the third scoring option. Please point out to me the fourth scoring option on the heat, thunder, rockets, clippers that are significantly better than any of these 3? Ray Allen? Terrance Jones? DeAndre Or JJ? Serge Ibaka?
No, none of them are elite, ideal 3rd or fourth offensive options. They are all elite defensive stoppers with the best defensive mind in basketball coaching them. Why do they need to be great on offense? How does 45 ppg not completely change this team's offense and scoring ability?

Taj and Butler would not be here if Chicago had Love and Carmelo. Noah would probably be fine as the 4th scorer, as his scoring opportunities would be limited to dunks and cleanup points.

I never said Love AND Melo, I said OR. With Love OR Melo and Rose in the lineup Noah and Taj can be limited to that role while Butler can wait for open looks. Again, the offense doesn't have to be elite when no-one can put up 100 on you.

[damecurry]

Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?

I don't see what you're not getting here. Rose and Melo or Love will average about 45 points a game. Add that to the 67 and your talking 112 points. This would still be one of, if not the, most dominant defenses in the league. It doesn't need a Chris Bosh as the third scoring option. Please point out to me the fourth scoring option on the heat, thunder, rockets, clippers that are significantly better than any of these 3? Ray Allen? Terrance Jones? DeAndre Or JJ? Serge Ibaka?
No, none of them are elite, ideal 3rd or fourth offensive options. They are all elite defensive stoppers with the best defensive mind in basketball coaching them. Why do they need to be great on offense? How does 45 ppg not completely change this team's offense and scoring ability?

Just to clarify it's not 45 points a game added to our offense. Rose will probably average 8-10 more than DJ did, Love will score probably 6-8 more than Boozer/Taj did. Not to mention with them taking more shots, others will score less. All in all adding Rose and Love to our team will take us from the 93.7 we averaged this past season to around 100 per game.

It was hyperbole to make the point, I agree with your assessment. A jump from 94 to 100 while retaining every bit of the defensive prowess, arguably getting better as Rose is an improvement on DJ and Love slightly better than Carlos, is all the Bulls need to be contenders. If PF are 94 and PA 92, you're not winning a title. If it's 100 and 92 you very well may.

[Bulls69]

It's just me but I think the T-Wolves are leaking this crap just to scare the Golden State into giving up Klay Thompson. The Bulls are being played just like Bron and Wade did to us a few years ago.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

It's just me but I think the T-Wolves are leaking this crap just to scare the Golden State into giving up Klay Thompson. The Bulls are being played just like Bron and Wade did to us a few years ago.

Wouldn't shock me. Klay would be an amazing running mate for Rubio and someone Minnesota fans could get excited about.

[singal3]

It's just me but I think the T-Wolves are leaking this crap just to scare the Golden State into giving up Klay Thompson. The Bulls are being played just like Bron and Wade did to us a few years ago.

I think there is a 0% chance they trade Klay. Not saying it's right or wrong but reminds me of how Luol was once untouchable.

[southpaw954]

The bulls have several non guaranteed deals. They really can trade taj, jimmy and picks for love using those non guaranteed deals as filler.

Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.

Maybe trying to save Boozer's contract for a Melo trade?

I am enamored with Love. Only thing that worries me about the proposed trade with Taj & Jimmy both going is that we lose a big part of the teams identity. The quality of the teams defense will go way down. Who covers Lebron now? Love is somewhat Boozer-esque when it comes to defense. Just doesn't scream as much. Noah would be the only good to great defender in the starting line up. If we go all in for Love I think the Bulls need to try to keep Jimmy. It's not a deal breaker; I'm just worried about what happens to the teams great defense.

I don't know the cost of Melo but I just feel he's a better "final" piece for this team. Sounds like Love will create holes. Major holes on defense. It sounds like acquiring Melo, if the Bulls even can, would be way more beneficial for winning now.

[southpaw954]

I don't think its going to take much to get Melo. I think Boozer, 16, 19 gets it done. PJ's alternative is nothing. No way Melo opts in and loses one more year of his prime, risks injury, and maybe doesn't get the big contract the following year in FA.

I think Taj, Jimmy, Sac pick, and fillers while taking back a bad contract gets it done for Love. That may be trumped by Klay from GSW but I don't know if GSW wants to break up the best 3pt shooting backcourt of all time.


This leaves us with Niko. I this scenario I trade him to the Lakers for their 7th pick which IMO they would do as they get something more proven, cheap, and can play right away with a resigned Gasol.

With the 7th pick we draft a wing or move back, grab two picks, draft a wing and McGary.

No matter what if Love comes Niko has to be traded.

Someone has to back up Love. Bulls would be down 2 power forwards assuming Boozer is amnestied. Mirotic will not start his first year; Love or not. He'll have to earn his time with Thibs.
Love coming does not mean Mirotic has to be traded.

[greenl]

Why on earth would the Warriors give up that much for love? Lol.

Barnes, Lee, filler and picks would probably be as high as they go

Why on Earth would the Wolves accept Barnes and Lee as the center pieces to a deal for Kevin Love? That's like us offering Boozer and Jimmy. If the Warriors want him- Klay has to be in the package. At least- that's what I would insist if I was Flip Saunders.

Except lee is actually a sold player and Barnes has potential all star talent?

Klaus Thomason for a player not guaranteed to resign is ridiculous


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Barnes has nothing resembling all star talent. That myth needs to die.