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Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread

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Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#1 » by WillyJakkz » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:02 pm

Team Rankings:

My criteria is easy peasy, either your team is a contender w/ a chance to win a championship, is a pretender which is a fringe playoff team, or they're just plain bad.

The contenders are the cream of the crop, they rise to the top, they never eat a pig because a pig is a cop, BUT contenders may also fall into pretender or just plain bad considering their championship window, the same way a pretender or bad team could easily become a future pretender or contender depending on player/ FA movement.

I'm also placing a high value on rookies cause after all, the NBA is dependent upon them transforming into the next stars (Durant), great players (Kobe), high quality players (Cassell), or great role players (Horry) of the League and some go onto fulfill their potential, some don't, some actually won a title as a rook.

I'm doing a Top 8 because 16 teams total from both conferences make the playoffs w/ 8 usually being perennial 1st RD fodder while the final 8 simply have a chance to win it, some greater than others but w/ the 2011 Mavs winning it all in a year they weren't projected to got hot at the right time and they took advantage of their time.

W/ that said here's my Top 8 Win Now selections & Top 8 Win Future teams in order:

Image

TOP 8 WIN NOW CONTENDERS
1: Image
Short window of opportunity (1-2yrs) then it's over, meantime I don't see any team beating a Nash, Ginobili, Gasol, Hibbert core in 7 games and w/ them in the East, it makes their path much easier to get to the Finals. Year 2 they'd have to determine to bring back Manu + D Wright and likely they will but at what cost? If either of those guys leave (moreso Manu) then yr 2 window shuts.

2: Image
The Mavs win the West and have a 2yr window but I don't see Dirk, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford being quite enough to lead them over the Pacers but I see a 7 game series between them. Joe Johnson also being used at SF doesn't help either.

3: Image
W/ LeBron James and Marc Gasol, they'll always be a threat to win it all and w/ Brooks and Burks who'll only get better but their window will be determined by Jameer Nelson's health and if MarShon Brooks and LeBron share defacto PG duties, this team could easily be #1.

4: Image
Bobcats have a very nice defensive team w/ Rondo, Tony Allen, Granger, and Paul Millsap, I see their problem ultimately being scoring and if Granger can't get it together then this team is in for a really long season.

5: Image
I see the Thunder led by Kobe Bryant (who I'm still high on) w/ Luol Deng and Kenyon Martin along w/ Reggie Evans and vet PG Andre Miller as being able to “out tough” most of the teams in the BaT. Brook Lopez and his health will determine how much of a threat this team can be w/ a 2-3yr window (tops).

6: Image
Tough, tall frontcourt w/ Bynum and Duncan and this teams only chance at winning would be to play a slowed down halfcourt game or go small ball bringing Duncan off the bench, otherwise, teams who can run on them should as not many teams have the size to match the Hornets froncourt. Question Tayshaun Prince's fortitude (in real life) as he chose to stay in a losing situation in Detroit instead of moving forward to a true contender while Afflalo, Mo' Williams, and Thomas will have to provide the scoring along w/ Bynum. Not a good mix of shot creators on this team but defense will keep them in every game likely.

7: Image
Timberwolves have a decent mix of players who are really good at what they do, the question is can Harden transform into a bonafide premiere player, my guess is yes since he'd still be 2nd best player on his team after Paul Pierce but this teams window is now or never as they'll simply out hustle teams to get wins.

8: Image
Well put together team making the West even that much more tougher for teams to get to the Finals and w/ Griffin, Batum, Noah, and Lin they have a very good chance to make it happen but Lin as the only proven closer they'll need Blake to improve to make the leap to Champions.

TOP 8 WIN FUTURE CONTENDERS
1: Image
Best win future team w/ LeBron and co developing, just in time before that yr 5 window closes.

2: Image
No way all those rookies don't develop, even if not, Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard seem to be the truth, Parsons has shown to be quite effective, Asik is a good defensive C, all they'd need is for Beal to progress and they have Championship written all over them, especially considering they'll get another high draft pick which they could easily package to make a deal for a proven scorer/ closer (maybe a Rudy Gay or Carmelo Anthony), another big due for a contract (Howard or Bynum), OR a young up and coming RFA SG like James Harden who may likely see greener (or more golden) pastures in the Bay Area in California instead of staying in the cold weather of Minnesota and this team has PERENNIAL winner written all over it.

3: Image
Easily see a core of Kyrie, Favors, George, and Turner w/ Kyrie Irving leading the way being a legit threat to win it all. Their biggest hole will be the C position and how Zeller develops or if Favors ends up being a fulltime NBA C. Huge question mark and once that's answered, they should develop or evolve the team accordingly.

4: Image
Young core who'll only get better over time.

5: Image
Any team w/ a backcourt of Derrick Rose and Avery Bradley is gonna give teams fits, while Z-Bo's game is mostly unathletic and ground bound, he should age well but can Bismack develop into a shutdown force in the paint? If so they have a good chance of making some noise in the East.

6: Image
Another young team w/ far too much high potential talent in Javale McGee, Jared Sullinger, Perry Jones, and Kawhi Leonard to go along w/ Eric Gordon to not be a contender via player development or trade.

7: Image
Cavs have a really nice backcourt duo of Lawson and Thompson who'll matchup well or favorably w/ any backcourt, young or old, they'll need a C moving forward to go w/ Monroe and Gallo to round out that frontcourt for them to make the step to Champion.

8: Image
As most other teams are in the middle of the pack w/ terrible long term contracts w/ a mixture of youth and/ or aging players by default only, I choose the Rockets and I see them as a team who'll for the next 5 yrs could be in the Playoffs due to the nice mix of talent (considering they stay intact since Pek and Redick expire this season) but w/ Parker leading the way and Popvich coaching, they'll compete but not win it all.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#2 » by LJ4pointplay » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:44 pm

appreciate the hard work, and love. I've been very busy but will pimp my team finally and make my own rankings hopefully this weekend.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#3 » by j4remi » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:03 pm

LJ4pointplay wrote:appreciate the hard work, and love. I've been very busy but will pimp my team finally and make my own rankings hopefully this weekend.


Same here, I've been on the boards less bc of a myriad of real-life distractions but I'll try to pimp my team soon or get Paco to hit half of it and just jump on the second half since I know he's been busy too.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#4 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:33 pm

I also appreciate the hard work. I have shot creators off the bench along with Afflalo who can create his own offense. What you failed to mention was that my team was a half court team, but was surrounded by some of the best 3 point shooters in the league. 3 point shooting is still offense. Teams have to double Duncan and have to double Bynum. At any given time there could be 3-4 players on defense in the paint...while i have 40% 3point shooters all outside and open. That should be taken into account.

The fact that you siad no team can beat the pacers is false IMO. Bynum>>Hibbert and Duncan>> Gasol. Then i have some of the best perimeter defenders in the league which will give teams fits.

You said i would have trouble with fast paced teams, which could be true...but teams cant run for 48 mins a game and most games are won in the half court set. There isnt many teams who can defend me in the half court. I think your placing too much value on my lack of athleticm in my front court. Bynum and Duncan is a deadly combination and teams are going to have a tough time generating any type of offense against my team.

That being said, I highly disagree that im the 6th best win now team. But i still appreciate your ranking and everyone is going to disagree anyways.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#5 » by NewEra » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:39 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:I also appreciate the hard work. I have shot creators off the bench along with Afflalo who can create his own offense. What you failed to mention was that my team was a half court team, but was surrounded by some of the best 3 point shooters in the league. 3 point shooting is still offense. Teams have to double Duncan and have to double Bynum. At any given time there could be 3-4 players on defense in the paint...while i have 40% 3point shooters all outside and open. That should be taken into account.

The fact that you siad no team can beat the pacers is false IMO. Bynum>>Hibbert and Duncan>> Gasol. Then i have some of the best perimeter defenders in the league which will give teams fits.

You said i would have trouble with fast paced teams, which could be true...but teams cant run for 48 mins a game and most games are won in the half court set. There isnt many teams who can defend me in the half court. I think your placing too much value on my lack of athleticm in my front court. Bynum and Duncan is a deadly combination and teams are going to have a tough time generating any type of offense against my team.

That being said, I highly disagree that im the 6th best win now team. But i still appreciate your ranking and everyone is going to disagree anyways.


Bynum may be better than Hibbert but not by much and probably not for long. Hibbert can also consistently give you a full season where as Bynum has found diffculty putting together two full seasons. Though he's only 24, he's been getting banged up in the league for 7 yrs now, and for a guy with his knees...well you know. I'm not gonna bash him further though cause I respect his game and had him last BAT cause despite his issues, and he does have many inculding his immaturity, he's a dominant force.

As for Pau vs Duncan. We all know Timmy will go down as one of the greatest power forwards ever, but at this point in their careers Pau is better. Sorry.

You mentioned perimiter defenders. Sefolosha and Artest trumps any you have?

My team is better, deeper, smarter, and faster than yours. There are some teams on here who could make an argument about having a better team than mine, but yours is not one of them. By far.

Seriously though, can we leave this thread open just for rankings and have discussions in the discussion thread?
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#6 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:09 pm

Duncan and Pau put up similar numbers last season, while Duncan played 10 less mpg last season. Duncan also out performed Pau in the playoffs. So no, its not undisputeable. Last 2 post seasons, Pau has put up an average of about 13/8 with horrible shooting numbers. Tim is still the better player even though he has less years left, but we can call them even.

So Afflalo and Prince arnt better then Sef and Ron? Highly disagree. Unlike Thabo who cant shoot for **** nor can he score, and unlike Artest who cant shoot for **** and is a head case....My 2 best perimeter guys can also shoot and score on there own. Sef is a great defender...But so is Afflalo, and if one is better then the other, its debatable. But whats not debatable is the fact that None of my defensive players outside of maybe Pachulia, hurt me on the offensive side or the spacing side of the ball.


Bynum>Hibbert
Duncan=>Pau
Prince>Wright
Afflalo>Thabo
Nash>Mo

Pachulia=Thompson
Harrington>DJ White
Singleton<Artest (But its not a huge difference, Artest has been pretty bad last 2 or 3 seasons)
Manu>whoever
Isiah>Telfair

So is your team really that much better when i have superior players at more positions then you? Also i didnt rob anybody in a trade like you did. I drafted every single one of my players.

SO no...your team is not far better then mine.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#7 » by NewEra » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:56 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:Duncan and Pau put up similar numbers last season, while Duncan played 10 less mpg last season. Duncan also out performed Pau in the playoffs. So no, its not undisputeable. Last 2 post seasons, Pau has put up an average of about 13/8 with horrible shooting numbers. Tim is still the better player even though he has less years left, but we can call them even.

So Afflalo and Prince arnt better then Sef and Ron? Highly disagree. Unlike Thabo who cant shoot for **** nor can he score, and unlike Artest who cant shoot for **** and is a head case....My 2 best perimeter guys can also shoot and score on there own. Sef is a great defender...But so is Afflalo, and if one is better then the other, its debatable. But whats not debatable is the fact that None of my defensive players outside of maybe Pachulia, hurt me on the offensive side or the spacing side of the ball.


Bynum>Hibbert
Duncan=>Pau
Prince>Wright
Afflalo>Thabo
Nash>Mo

Pachulia=Thompson
Harrington>DJ White
Singleton<Artest (But its not a huge difference, Artest has been pretty bad last 2 or 3 seasons)
Manu>whoever
Isiah>Telfair

So is your team really that much better when i have superior players at more positions then you? Also i didnt rob anybody in a trade like you did. I drafted every single one of my players.

SO no...your team is not far better then mine.


Stop reaching. Pachulia = Thompson? Yea ok, I stopped there.

Ok so instead of giving me props, you knock me for making a trade that benefited my team calling it robbery? You're definitely mad right now. It's only a game. A game that I whipped your behind in and given another opportunity in bat 9, i'd do it again. :lol:

I like your team though, it's my style of building except for Mo at PG. I would have gone more pure there, but you did a decent job and I think it's one of the better teams.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#8 » by Fury » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:48 pm

So a team with Chris Paul and Kevin Love surrounded by a bunch of 3 point shooters and defender isn't good enough to win now. Not only that but a team with Gordon Hayward, Kevin Love, Darrell Arthur, Jan Vesely, Tiago Splitter and Chris Paul still in his prime isn't good enough to win in the future.

Nice job. Sike.

Also, you didn't even do it right:

JUDGING:

Every GM participating must nominate and rank their top 5 teams in the end for the following categories:

- best offense
- best defense
- best youth
- best win-now
- best salary cap management

Obviously you can't pick your own team. Then we can assign points 1-5 and we can easily crown a winner.

Added incentive: you can't win if you don't do your nominations and rankings.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#9 » by WillyJakkz » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:53 am

Image
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#10 » by WillyJakkz » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:11 am

WillyJakkz wrote:Image
Bump
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#11 » by Fury » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Rank top 5 for each category. 1st place in the category gets 5 points. 5th place gets 1 point. Add it all up for each ranking and you get your winner. You can also win total category points. I'm only doing teams that I see in the pimping thread, even if you didn't pimp. And if you didn't pimp, I'll have to give the nod to the pimped team if it's a tie. In parenthesis, I'll post what help push it over and a reminder on which team it is.

BEST OFFENSE:

1. Pacers (Nash, Ginobili, Gasol, Hibbert)
2. Mavericks (Dirk, JJ, Horford, etc.)
3. Suns (LeBron, Gasol, Nelson)
4. Bucks (Durant, Boozer, Conley)
5. Bulls (Deron, Tyreke, David Lee, Donnie Mountainjuice)

BEST DEFENSE:

1. Bobcats (Rondo, Allen, and Varejao)
2. Hawks (Like everyone, think Jordan is a little overrated but he'll do)
3. Warriors (Davis and Asik is beast)
4. Hornets (Duncan, Bynum, Prince)
5. Bulls (Marion, Brand and like 4 good bench players off the bench edge it out over 3 good teams)

BEST YOUTH:

1. 76ers (Kyrie and George leads a deep young squad)
2. Cavaliers (Lawson, Gallo, Klay and Monroe)
3. Warriors (Y'all know the team)
4. Blazers (Lin, Batum, Mayo, Griffin, Noah all still young and entering their prime)
5. Hawks (Shump, Holiday, MKG)

BEST WIN NOW: (another toughie)

1. Pacers (The four dudes mentioned)
2. Mavericks (You know who's there)
3. Suns (LeBron, Gasol)
4. T'Wolves (KG, Harden, Pierce)
5. Bucks (Durant, Conley, Boozer)

BEST SALARY CAP MANAGEMENT:

1. 76ers (like 90% rookie contracts, good flexibility)
2. Warriors (rookie contracts, one Asik contract and Calderon expiring)
3. Hawks (mostly rookie contracts except Jordan)
4. Cavaliers (Gallo is manageable, Lawson gonna get extension, everyone else good)
5. Kings (Howard max, Martin expiring, everyone else manageable)
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#12 » by Manhattan Project » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:07 pm

Sort of hard doing this without an excel sheet, people doing their pimping and what not. I didn't use the salary cap management since that to me is completely useless in all of this. No body went way over the hard cap, thus it's irrelevant.

Best Offense
1- Pacers
2- Wolves
3- Suns
4- Bucks
5- Mavericks

Best Defense
1- Bobcats
2- Hornets
3- Clippers
4- Nuggets
5- Pacers

Best Youth
1- Warriors
2- 76ers
3- Hawks
4- Cavs
5- Pistons

Best Win Now
1- Pacers
2- Wolves
3- Suns
4- Hornets
5- Kings
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#13 » by br7knicks » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Win Now
Pacers
Kings
Thunder
Mavs
wolves


Win Future
Cavs
76ers
jazz
Nets
Canada


Offense
Cavs
Mavs
Kings
Jazz
Thunder


Defense
wizards
bobcats
hawks
Pacers
hornets

I too didn't do salary because it's not like anyone is that horribly over it like NLR when he had $126 million + of salary, and it's too difficult to think about whether guys would resign with teams, taking Max Contracts, etc.

If I could do top 8 for each category, a lot of recurring teams would be on it (correlation with win now and best offense/defense, etc). it was really tough and close for ranks 3-8 for me.
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Re: Knicks BaT 8.0 Judging/ Results Thread 

Post#14 » by ctorres » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:59 am

Best Offense
1. Utah Jazz
2. Indiana Pacers
3. Denver Nuggets
4. Dallas Mavericks
5. Chicago Bulls

Best Defense
1. Indiana Pacers
2. Denver Nuggets
3. New Orleans Hornets
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. Golden State Warriors

Best Youth
1. Cleveland Cavaliers
2. Philadelphia 76ers
3. Golden State Warriors
4. Atlanta Hawks
5. Denver Nuggets

Best Win-Now
1. Indiana Pacers
2. Denver Nuggets
3. Utah Jazz
4. Dallas Mavericks
5. Phoenix Suns

Best Salary Cap Management
1. Utah Jazz
2. Chicago Bulls
3. Atlanta Hawks
4. Golden State Warriors
5. Milwaukee Bucks

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