Jcool0 wrote:
give me Deni. He is the best sf prospect by a mile in terms of nba ready, well rounded, versatility.
Although I want Ball who is a transcendent playmaker, Deni can fill the hole at forward position.
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Jcool0 wrote:
MikeDC wrote:Avdija is my least favorite prospect for several reasons:
- The fact he tears it up in the Israeli league but then does poorly in the EuroLeague is troubling. That's the trend for two seasons, and it suggests that his game's not going to hold up well as competition levels get higher.
- Players being unable to make free throws is usually a predictor of problems. He's got two seasons + of being a downright bad free throw shooter. That's a troubling sign.
- His defense and rebounding don't seem particularly great
I put all this together and try to imagine him as an NBA Player and I see a forward a tweener athletically in the classical bad sense of the word (tooslow for 3, too small and weak for 4).
But worse, he doesn't project to be a guy who does any of the basic NBA offensive roles very well. He doesn't project as a shooter, and he doesn't project as a guy who can drive. Good NBA players are at least a partial threat to do both, and a definite threat to do one of these things.
Thus, while in the abstract his above average handle looks good, in practice, you very quickly see that he's not a guy you want to run the PnR with, because he's no threat to drive and he's no threat to shoot. So you don't really want the ball in his hands.
But he's not a good shooter, so he's not really a guy you want to have off the ball spotting up either.
Thus, I don't really understand the "theory" of him as a meaningful contributor.
Jcool0 wrote:MikeDC wrote:Avdija is my least favorite prospect for several reasons:
- The fact he tears it up in the Israeli league but then does poorly in the EuroLeague is troubling. That's the trend for two seasons, and it suggests that his game's not going to hold up well as competition levels get higher.
- Players being unable to make free throws is usually a predictor of problems. He's got two seasons + of being a downright bad free throw shooter. That's a troubling sign.
- His defense and rebounding don't seem particularly great
I put all this together and try to imagine him as an NBA Player and I see a forward a tweener athletically in the classical bad sense of the word (too slow for 3, too small and weak for 4).
But worse, he doesn't project to be a guy who does any of the basic NBA offensive roles very well. He doesn't project as a shooter, and he doesn't project as a guy who can drive. Good NBA players are at least a partial threat to do both, and a definite threat to do one of these things.
Thus, while in the abstract his above average handle looks good, in practice, you very quickly see that he's not a guy you want to run the PnR with, because he's no threat to drive and he's no threat to shoot. So you don't really want the ball in his hands.
But he's not a good shooter, so he's not really a guy you want to have off the ball spotting up either.
Thus, I don't really understand the "theory" of him as a meaningful contributor.
You can see why he would be a top draft pick
jc23 wrote:the fate of humanity rides on Chicago winning this game.
CoreyVillains wrote:Not a guy on our radar unless AK trades back, but he’s a fun player to watch with a sweet stroke.
jc23 wrote:the fate of humanity rides on Chicago winning this game.
Little Nathan wrote:Avdija doesn't do poorly in the Euroleague, he just isn't asked to do as much as in the (very weak) Israeli league. The fact that he does play in the Euroleague at his age without being a huge negative is impressive.
The free throw shooting is weird, though.
MikeDC wrote:Jcool0 wrote:MikeDC wrote:Avdija is my least favorite prospect for several reasons:
- The fact he tears it up in the Israeli league but then does poorly in the EuroLeague is troubling. That's the trend for two seasons, and it suggests that his game's not going to hold up well as competition levels get higher.
- Players being unable to make free throws is usually a predictor of problems. He's got two seasons + of being a downright bad free throw shooter. That's a troubling sign.
- His defense and rebounding don't seem particularly great
I put all this together and try to imagine him as an NBA Player and I see a forward a tweener athletically in the classical bad sense of the word (too slow for 3, too small and weak for 4).
But worse, he doesn't project to be a guy who does any of the basic NBA offensive roles very well. He doesn't project as a shooter, and he doesn't project as a guy who can drive. Good NBA players are at least a partial threat to do both, and a definite threat to do one of these things.
Thus, while in the abstract his above average handle looks good, in practice, you very quickly see that he's not a guy you want to run the PnR with, because he's no threat to drive and he's no threat to shoot. So you don't really want the ball in his hands.
But he's not a good shooter, so he's not really a guy you want to have off the ball spotting up either.
Thus, I don't really understand the "theory" of him as a meaningful contributor.
You can see why he would be a top draft pick
Not actually, because these sort of blurbs don't really address the points I'm raising at all.
For example, pointing out individually good performances in the Israeli league doesn't address why he performed so poorly in EuroLeague play, or why, in total, he's been a terrible free throw shooter across three seasons.
I mean, anyone can look pretty good when you pick out the highlights and good games. But that doesn't answer the questions raised by the sum total of his performances.
MikeDC wrote:I agree that playing in the Euro-league is impressive, but "he just isn't asked to do as much" is an excuse.
jc23 wrote:the fate of humanity rides on Chicago winning this game.
Jcool0 wrote:MikeDC wrote:Jcool0 wrote:
You can see why he would be a top draft pick
Not actually, because these sort of blurbs don't really address the points I'm raising at all.
For example, pointing out individually good performances in the Israeli league doesn't address why he performed so poorly in EuroLeague play, or why, in total, he's been a terrible free throw shooter across three seasons.
I mean, anyone can look pretty good when you pick out the highlights and good games. But that doesn't answer the questions raised by the sum total of his performances.
Clearly you are ignoring things because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Little Nathan wrote:MikeDC wrote:I agree that playing in the Euro-league is impressive, but "he just isn't asked to do as much" is an excuse.
It's really not, though. Avdija played a completely different role (and a lot less minutes) in the Euroleague because his team is very good and has many good veteran players. He was out there to defend, take open shots or make the extra pass, which he did well. In the Israeli league, where the level of competition is much lower, he had more freedom with the ball in his hands. The situations are just different.
Ralphb07 wrote:This draft is just so hard to dig your feet in the ground and have a favorite it seems. For me I have been switching every few weeks and have a handful of guys I am okay with. Those guys are Ball, Hayes, Hali and Avdija.
spearsy23 wrote:Kobe is a low percentage chucker just like Jennings, he's just better at it.
teamCHItown wrote:Now we have threads on what violent felons think of our Bulls. Great. Next up, OJ Simpson's take on a possible Taj Gibson extension.
Ralphb07 wrote:This draft is just so hard to dig your feet in the ground and have a favorite it seems. For me I have been switching every few weeks and have a handful of guys I am okay with. Those guys are Ball, Hayes, Hali and Avdija.
jc23 wrote:the fate of humanity rides on Chicago winning this game.
MikeDC wrote:Avdija is my least favorite prospect for several reasons:
- The fact he tears it up in the Israeli league but then does poorly in the EuroLeague is troubling. That's the trend for two seasons, and it suggests that his game's not going to hold up well as competition levels get higher.
- Players being unable to make free throws is usually a predictor of problems. He's got two seasons + of being a downright bad free throw shooter. That's a troubling sign.
- His defense and rebounding don't seem particularly great
I put all this together and try to imagine him as an NBA Player and I see a forward a tweener athletically in the classical bad sense of the word (tooslow for 3, too small and weak for 4).
But worse, he doesn't project to be a guy who does any of the basic NBA offensive roles very well. He doesn't project as a shooter, and he doesn't project as a guy who can drive. Good NBA players are at least a partial threat to do both, and a definite threat to do one of these things.
Thus, while in the abstract his above average handle looks good, in practice, you very quickly see that he's not a guy you want to run the PnR with, because he's no threat to drive and he's no threat to shoot. So you don't really want the ball in his hands.
But he's not a good shooter, so he's not really a guy you want to have off the ball spotting up either.
Thus, I don't really understand the "theory" of him as a meaningful contributor.
MrFortune3 wrote:Deni is the type of player you take if you believe in your development staff.
He has the talent and potential to be great. Can your staff refine his traits and push him to reach his ceiling?
I want to see the Bulls draft him and see what he can do.