MLB Rule Changes Discussion

[s e n s i]

Anticipating deviation from some of the rules in place for over a century over the next several years, thought it might be worthwhile to consolidate all the chat regarding MLB rule changes; ideas, proposals, implementations, into this here thread. Mods, please merge if one already exists.

This thread inspired by Jayson Stark's piece in The Athletic today. Some excerpts for those not subscribed:

WHAT’S HAPPENING: For the first half of the Atlantic League season, which begins May 27, the mound isn’t going anywhere. But for the second half, starting on Aug. 3, the distance between the plate and the rubber will shift to 61 feet, 6 inches.

WHY IT’S HAPPENING: We’re guessing you’ve noticed that pitchers these days throw harder than at any time in recorded history. (Average fastball velocity in 2021: 93.4 mph, the highest ever.) We’re guessing you’ve also noticed that’s produced a whole cyclone’s worth of swinging and missing. (Strikeout rate in 2021: a ridiculous 9.5 per nine innings, the most ever.)

So if this keeps up, it would make 16 years in a row that the strikeout rate has increased. And you know what that means? Forget the Three True Outcomes. It’s really just that One True Outcome that is swallowing up this sport. So how can baseball counteract the effects of all that velocity? Moving back the mound, even by a foot, might be an answer. Or not.

Time to double down on the Double Hook?
WHAT’S HAPPENING: Unlike the 61-6 experiment, the Double Hook will be in effect all season long in the Atlantic League. So in case this wasn’t clear earlier, here’s the deal with how that will work:

Every team starts the game with a DH. If the starting pitcher goes nine innings, the DH hangs around for all nine innings. If the starting pitcher gets knocked out in the fourth, the DH gets knocked out with him. If the starting pitcher is in trouble in the top of the sixth and the DH is due up in the bottom of the sixth, then the manager has a fun decision to make. Talk-show lines are open.

WHY IT’S HAPPENING: Remember back in the good old days — by which we mean, oh, 2010 — when the first question you asked before you watched a baseball game was: Who’s pitching tonight? That’s because we spent a century thinking of starting pitchers as the biggest names and most significant players in the whole sport. It was fun century while it lasted.

In 2020, the average starting pitcher got a measly 14 outs per start. In 2010, that average was 18 outs. And would you believe that even if we prorate last year’s stats over a full season, fewer than 500 starters would have been permitted to go through a lineup three times in 2020? Ten years ago, that number was more than 2,200.

So the Double Hook isn’t really about the DH at all. (Or at least not much.) It’s really about dangling an incentive in front of managers and data-driven front offices to keep their starting pitchers in the game long enough for your average season-ticket holder to have time to gulp down a hot dog and still watch those starters work their magic.

[Schad]

Something certainly will need to change; it's very early, but to date the result of the new ball has been that slugging has cratered, resulting in the lowest leaguewide OPS since 2014.

But I'm dubious that more in-game gimmicks are the solution. The remove-the-DH thing is only going to have a marginal impact; teams will just attempt to time the removal of their starter to the DH spot being passed in the lineup, and meanwhile you're likely to depress offense even further by replacing a good hitter with some schlubby pinch-hitters.

Moving the mound back/lowering the mound is a possibility, but in the short term the easiest answer is just to crack down on ball tampering. Teams have been wary to start targeting opponents because it's so widespread, and they don't want to hamper their own pitchers. So take it out of the teams' hands. Have umps check balls, and if there is a tacky substance on the ball, it's not going to be an accident. If there was a substance on the ball that the pitcher didn't want there, the ball would have been tossed out of play. Reduce the incentive to throw at max effort on every pitch, because it's harder to control a ball thrown at max effort.

Hitters might have to wear full plate armor for a couple months while pitchers adjust, though.

[Parataxis]

It would be such a shame if pulled out our starter and then had to also pull out our DH who is hitting .069

***

Truthfully though, it would make it very interesting, essentially switching to no-DH once your relievers are in the game. Not sure it'll be better, but it will definitely be interesting.

[Schad]

It would be such a shame if pulled out our starter and then had to also pull out our DH who is hitting .069

***

Truthfully though, it would make it very interesting, essentially switching to no-DH once your relievers are in the game. Not sure it'll be better, but it will definitely be interesting.

Mostly, it'd mean more plate appearances for the likes of Joe Panik, pinch-hitting for relievers and in double-switches, etc. Starters might, under some circumstances, remain in the game for an extra inning, but they aren't going to suddenly leave starters in for an extra 3 innings to avoid using a pinch hitter, the numbers simply wouldn't support it.

[Cyrus]

Something certainly will need to change; it's very early, but to date the result of the new ball has been that slugging has cratered, resulting in the lowest leaguewide OPS since 2014.

But I'm dubious that more in-game gimmicks are the solution. The remove-the-DH thing is only going to have a marginal impact; teams will just attempt to time the removal of their starter to the DH spot being passed in the lineup, and meanwhile you're likely to depress offense even further by replacing a good hitter with some schlubby pinch-hitters.

Moving the mound back/lowering the mound is a possibility, but in the short term the easiest answer is just to crack down on ball tampering. Teams have been wary to start targeting opponents because it's so widespread, and they don't want to hamper their own pitchers. So take it out of the teams' hands. Have umps check balls, and if there is a tacky substance on the ball, it's not going to be an accident. If there was a substance on the ball that the pitcher didn't want there, the ball would have been tossed out of play. Reduce the incentive to throw at max effort on every pitch, because it's harder to control a ball thrown at max effort.

Hitters might have to wear full plate armor for a couple months while pitchers adjust, though.

It would basically force teams to not use the openner, bullpen day strategy though...unless you hoping 3 innings out of each guy, this will i think mlb solve having like 6-7 pitches go through one game (Which slows game down with pitching changes, warmup, etc.) Maybe though a team will say f it, and just have their pitcher hit.

But for example if team has only 3 bench guys like us, then we really can't use the opener strategy.

[Schad]

It would basically force teams to not use the openner, bullpen day strategy though...unless you hoping 3 innings out of each guy, this will i think mlb solve having like 6-7 pitches go through one game (Which slows game down with pitching changes, warmup, etc.) Maybe though a team will say f it, and just have their pitcher hit.

But for example if team has only 3 bench guys like us, then we really can't use the opener strategy.

Sure, though the opener isn't really a big deal save for people who care really deeply about the wins stat, and those people are silly. I just can't fathom why anyone gives a damn whether the guy who pitches 4 IP is the first or second pitcher to throw that day.

[Wo1verine]

Maybe take the shifts away.. Only the really good hitters are good enough to adjust it seems?

Would take some of the strategy out of the game but more hits and more runs?

[s e n s i]

the case against robot umps, a thread:

[Cyrus]

It would basically force teams to not use the openner, bullpen day strategy though...unless you hoping 3 innings out of each guy, this will i think mlb solve having like 6-7 pitches go through one game (Which slows game down with pitching changes, warmup, etc.) Maybe though a team will say f it, and just have their pitcher hit.

But for example if team has only 3 bench guys like us, then we really can't use the opener strategy.

Sure, though the opener isn't really a big deal save for people who care really deeply about the wins stat, and those people are silly. I just can't fathom why anyone gives a damn whether the guy who pitches 4 IP is the first or second pitcher to throw that day.

No I just mean, people have been using "openner" to just pitch one inning...well you wouldn't want to do that if your losing your DH as result. I guess you could get around this if you away team doing opener strategy and batting your DH at the top of the order, but either way pulling your pitching after 1 inning isn't going to be a great idea, unless your fine with pitcher at some point potentially batting.

[Fairview4Life]

Robot umpires for balls and strikes.
Get rid of the runner on second rule.

That's all we need for now.

[elmer_yuck]

Move the mound back more. Maybe 64 or 65 feet. I don’t think one foot will make any difference. Pitchers will have to adjust. But that will definitely decrease strikeouts and put more balls in play.
And prevent shifts. 2 infielders must be on each side of 2nd base.

[The_Hater]

Maybe take the shifts away.. Only the really good hitters are good enough to adjust it seems?

Would take some of the strategy out of the game but more hits and more runs?

You can’t take shifts away and you can’t tell teams where they should defend hitters. It makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s just a bad idea.

Hitters need to adapt and take advantage of the defense and if they can’t, someone will come along who can adapt. But that change is not going to happen overnight.

[Fairview4Life]

Maybe take the shifts away.. Only the really good hitters are good enough to adjust it seems?

Would take some of the strategy out of the game but more hits and more runs?

You can’t take shifts away and you can’t tell teams where they should defend hitters. It makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s just a bad idea.

Hitters need to adapt and take advantage of the defense and if they can’t, someone will come along who can adapt. But that change is not going to happen overnight.

I don't really care about shifts, have at it if you want in my opinion. But hockey and soccer have offsides rules. Why can't players stand in front of the opposing net? Why is there a 24 second shot clock or a 3 point line in the NBA? These are all just arbitrary rules sports came up with to try and make the game more entertaining. Baseball saying there have to be 2 infielders on each side of second base wouldn't really be any different.

[The_Hater]

Maybe take the shifts away.. Only the really good hitters are good enough to adjust it seems?

Would take some of the strategy out of the game but more hits and more runs?

You can’t take shifts away and you can’t tell teams where they should defend hitters. It makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s just a bad idea.

Hitters need to adapt and take advantage of the defense and if they can’t, someone will come along who can adapt. But that change is not going to happen overnight.

I don't really care about shifts, have at it if you want in my opinion. But hockey and soccer have offsides rules. Why can't players stand in front of the opposing net? Why is there a 24 second shot clock or a 3 point line in the NBA? These are all just arbitrary rules sports came up with to try and make the game more entertaining. Baseball saying there have to be 2 infielders on each side of second base wouldn't really be any different.

Hockey blows the whistle if you’re offside for a faceoff, soccer gives possession to the other team. What is baseball going to do to penalize the defender? Rewarding a hit seems pretty drastic. And what if the defender is offside but the ball is hit to a different part of the field or it’s popped up or no contact is even made? Do you still reward a hit? Now we’re actualky rewarding hitters for failing in this case and the pitchers pay the price.

Also the logistics would be a nightmare iMO. So say the 4 infielders have to line up with 2 on each side of 2nd base. But does that mean they can’t move until the ball is hit? Or until the batter swings? Or can they start cheating to the other side as the pitch is being delivered just like they did for years before the shift? That last example almost defeats the enforcement of the rule as the defenders could get lined up pretty much where they are now.

And who is policing all this stuff? The 2nd base imo likely? I could still see them going to the replay monitor dozens of times a game which will turn already ridiculously long 3 hour games into 4 hours.

Anyways, aside from all that. I’m completely against telling defenders in baseball where they can line up just because hitters can’t adapt to the shift right now. The defenders have implemented a working strategy and the offensive teams need to figure out how to beat it. Just as happens over time with every sport.

[Fairview4Life]

You can’t take shifts away and you can’t tell teams where they should defend hitters. It makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s just a bad idea.

Hitters need to adapt and take advantage of the defense and if they can’t, someone will come along who can adapt. But that change is not going to happen overnight.

I don't really care about shifts, have at it if you want in my opinion. But hockey and soccer have offsides rules. Why can't players stand in front of the opposing net? Why is there a 24 second shot clock or a 3 point line in the NBA? These are all just arbitrary rules sports came up with to try and make the game more entertaining. Baseball saying there have to be 2 infielders on each side of second base wouldn't really be any different.

Hockey blows the whistle if you’re offside for a faceoff, soccer gives possession to the other team. What is baseball going to do to penalize the defender? Rewarding a hit seems pretty drastic. And what if the defender is offside but the ball is hit to a different part of the field or it’s popped up or no contact is even made? Do you still reward a hit? Now we’re actualky rewarding hitters for failing in this case and the pitchers pay the price.

Also the logistics would be a nightmare iMO. So say the 4 infielders have to line up with 2 on each side of 2nd base. But does that mean they can’t move until the ball is hit? Or until the batter swings? Or can they start cheating to the other side as the pitch is being delivered just like they did for years before the shift? That last example almost defeats the enforcement of the rule as the defenders could get lined up pretty much where they are now.

And who is policing all this stuff? I could see them going to the replay monitor dozens of times a game which will turn already ridiculously long 3 hour games into 4 hours.

Anyways, aside from all that. I’m completely against telling defenders in baseball where they can line up just because hitters can’t adapt to the shift right now. The defenders have implemented a working strategy and the offensive teams need to figure out how to beat it. Just as happens over time with every sport.

I agree with your last paragraph, but it would be pretty easy to control things. You call time and reposition the player and then kick out the offending player and/or managers if it continues. Baseball has all kinds of ways to enforce rules. Hell they booted Adrian Beltre from a game for moving the on deck circle. Sometimes they even make 3rd base coaches get back in their little boxes although that's pretty rare. Volleyball has rules for front and backcourt players and everyone has to wait until the serve before repositioning. As far as logistics, I'm fine with before the pitch. If it's really just a single step over a line, oh well, make them take that step I guess. Or you paint a couple new lines on the dirt coming out from 2nd base to make it a little further to go. It's really not that unsolvable of an issue. They already have a balk rule which is fairly undecipherable.

[The_Hater]

I don't really care about shifts, have at it if you want in my opinion. But hockey and soccer have offsides rules. Why can't players stand in front of the opposing net? Why is there a 24 second shot clock or a 3 point line in the NBA? These are all just arbitrary rules sports came up with to try and make the game more entertaining. Baseball saying there have to be 2 infielders on each side of second base wouldn't really be any different.

Hockey blows the whistle if you’re offside for a faceoff, soccer gives possession to the other team. What is baseball going to do to penalize the defender? Rewarding a hit seems pretty drastic. And what if the defender is offside but the ball is hit to a different part of the field or it’s popped up or no contact is even made? Do you still reward a hit? Now we’re actualky rewarding hitters for failing in this case and the pitchers pay the price.

Also the logistics would be a nightmare iMO. So say the 4 infielders have to line up with 2 on each side of 2nd base. But does that mean they can’t move until the ball is hit? Or until the batter swings? Or can they start cheating to the other side as the pitch is being delivered just like they did for years before the shift? That last example almost defeats the enforcement of the rule as the defenders could get lined up pretty much where they are now.

And who is policing all this stuff? I could see them going to the replay monitor dozens of times a game which will turn already ridiculously long 3 hour games into 4 hours.

Anyways, aside from all that. I’m completely against telling defenders in baseball where they can line up just because hitters can’t adapt to the shift right now. The defenders have implemented a working strategy and the offensive teams need to figure out how to beat it. Just as happens over time with every sport.

I agree with your last paragraph, but it would be pretty easy to control things. You call time and reposition the player and then kick out the offending player and/or managers if it continues. Baseball has all kinds of ways to enforce rules. Hell they booted Adrian Beltre from a game for moving the on deck circle. Sometimes they even make 3rd base coaches get back in their little boxes although that's pretty rare. Volleyball has rules for front and backcourt players and everyone has to wait until the serve before repositioning. As far as logistics, I'm fine with before the pitch. If it's really just a single step over a line, oh well, make them take that step I guess. Or you paint a couple new lines on the dirt coming out from 2nd base to make it a little further to go. It's really not that unsolvable of an issue. They already have a balk rule which is fairly undecipherable.

So what’s the penalty for offending teams? And how long will the games be now because of all the stoppages and delays? Are you saying that an infielder can’t go play a ball that is over a certain white line in the field? Because that absolutely won’t work and would be ridiculous to watch as a fan. Infielders already go all over the field catching fly balls, pop ups and covering bases so does this line just apply to line drives and ground balls?

Sure they could implement something, but I don’t think it would be easy and I see a long list of negatives and problems that would come with it. It’s a non-starter from where I sit.

[Fairview4Life]

Hockey blows the whistle if you’re offside for a faceoff, soccer gives possession to the other team. What is baseball going to do to penalize the defender? Rewarding a hit seems pretty drastic. And what if the defender is offside but the ball is hit to a different part of the field or it’s popped up or no contact is even made? Do you still reward a hit? Now we’re actualky rewarding hitters for failing in this case and the pitchers pay the price.

Also the logistics would be a nightmare iMO. So say the 4 infielders have to line up with 2 on each side of 2nd base. But does that mean they can’t move until the ball is hit? Or until the batter swings? Or can they start cheating to the other side as the pitch is being delivered just like they did for years before the shift? That last example almost defeats the enforcement of the rule as the defenders could get lined up pretty much where they are now.

And who is policing all this stuff? I could see them going to the replay monitor dozens of times a game which will turn already ridiculously long 3 hour games into 4 hours.

Anyways, aside from all that. I’m completely against telling defenders in baseball where they can line up just because hitters can’t adapt to the shift right now. The defenders have implemented a working strategy and the offensive teams need to figure out how to beat it. Just as happens over time with every sport.

I agree with your last paragraph, but it would be pretty easy to control things. You call time and reposition the player and then kick out the offending player and/or managers if it continues. Baseball has all kinds of ways to enforce rules. Hell they booted Adrian Beltre from a game for moving the on deck circle. Sometimes they even make 3rd base coaches get back in their little boxes although that's pretty rare. Volleyball has rules for front and backcourt players and everyone has to wait until the serve before repositioning. As far as logistics, I'm fine with before the pitch. If it's really just a single step over a line, oh well, make them take that step I guess. Or you paint a couple new lines on the dirt coming out from 2nd base to make it a little further to go. It's really not that unsolvable of an issue. They already have a balk rule which is fairly undecipherable.

So what’s the penalty for offending teams? And how long will the games be now because of all the stoppages and delays? Are you saying that an infielder can’t go field a ball that is over a certain white line in the field? Because that absolutely won’t work and would be ridiculous to watch as a fan. Infielders already go all over the field catching fly balls, pop ups and covering bases so does this line just apply to line drives and ground balls?

Sure they could implement something, but I don’t think it would be easy and I see a long list of negatives and problems that would come with it.

Thought I was pretty clear, kick people out of the game if they don't listen and you could move after the pitcher begins his wind up.

[Michael Bradley]

Analytics have hurt a lot of sports, but baseball has been hit the worst out of all of them. You can't force teams to not be smart, so stuff like this is the only real alternative. I'm actually OK with pretty much all of the proposed rule changes the league is trying out in the minors and Atlantic League. The only one I'd need more information on is how they plan to regulate the shift, but beyond that, even as someone who has watched baseball for a long time, I can see that the game needs to change. The NBA 20 years ago versus the NBA today is almost an entirely different game, and yet nothing has happened to the NBA's popularity. If anything, it has grown since then. MLB is always last to the party when it comes to rule changes or technology changes, or really anything that requires a change. If creating a pitch clock, getting robo umps, having a runner on 2nd in extras, limiting pick off attempts (making it easier to steal), moving the mound back, regulating shifts, etc, etc, is going to create more action and make games flow better/end sooner, then I think they have to do it. Long time fans like us are going to complain about it initially, but we'll get used to it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Make it robot umps. Put a tracker in the player's shoe. Let them stretch their groin as far as they want and pretend it gives them an advantage somehow. If the tracker is over, you're out of the game.

I'm not actually for enforcing no shifts but it would be pretty easy to make players listen. And honestly, having described what would almost assuredly be the outcome, I kinda wana see it in action.

Sent from my SM-G970W using RealGM mobile app

[Wo1verine]

I agree with your last paragraph, but it would be pretty easy to control things. You call time and reposition the player and then kick out the offending player and/or managers if it continues. Baseball has all kinds of ways to enforce rules. Hell they booted Adrian Beltre from a game for moving the on deck circle. Sometimes they even make 3rd base coaches get back in their little boxes although that's pretty rare. Volleyball has rules for front and backcourt players and everyone has to wait until the serve before repositioning. As far as logistics, I'm fine with before the pitch. If it's really just a single step over a line, oh well, make them take that step I guess. Or you paint a couple new lines on the dirt coming out from 2nd base to make it a little further to go. It's really not that unsolvable of an issue. They already have a balk rule which is fairly undecipherable.

So what’s the penalty for offending teams? And how long will the games be now because of all the stoppages and delays? Are you saying that an infielder can’t go field a ball that is over a certain white line in the field? Because that absolutely won’t work and would be ridiculous to watch as a fan. Infielders already go all over the field catching fly balls, pop ups and covering bases so does this line just apply to line drives and ground balls?

Sure they could implement something, but I don’t think it would be easy and I see a long list of negatives and problems that would come with it.

Thought I was pretty clear, kick people out of the game if they don't listen and you could move after the pitcher begins his wind up.

Yeah the way you explained it makes me wanna get rid of the shifts even more.

I think what you said could work for sure.

I find it discouraging especially if pitcher has 2 strikes that many teams will load up the right side for example and basically have two outfielders playing for the pull It’s just **** baseball because majority of the players aren’t good enough to adjust. IMO you need to change the rules to make things more dramatic and exciting.