Tom Brady Greatest QB ever? I think not! C-pep vs Brady...

[Heat3]

For all us non-Pats fans this was a tough season to bear (until the end ). The worst part was the sports media, mainly ESPN, force feeding us Patriots 24/7. Not even halfway through the season and the Patriots were declared the greatest team ever and Tom Brady the greatest QB ever. I recall him being projected to throw 60 TDs....I mean really! It was almost as if NFL history began in Sept. 2007. It totally dismissed what other QBs have accomplished in years past.

Now, as Anton Ego would say, let's have a dose of perspective! How about we compare the numbers put up by the GOAT Tom Brady vs someone is now basically a joke in the league, Daunte Culpepper.

Tom Brady 2007
398-578
68.9%
4,806 yards
8.3 AVG.
50 TD
8 INT
21 Sacks
128 Sack Yards
117.2 Rating

Rushing:
37 ATT
98 Yards
2.6 AVG
2 TD
6 Fumbles
4 Lost



Daunte Culpepper 2004
379-548
69.2%
4,717 Yards
8.6 AVG
39 TD
11 INT
46 Sacks
238 Sack Yards
110.9 Rating

Rushing:
88 ATT
406 Yards
4.6 AVG
2 TD
9 Fumbles
4 Lost


As you can see, Daunte put up VERY SIMILAR numbers that year. The two stats that jump out are the TD's and Sacks. I believe that better receiving corps (i.e. guys not named Randy Moss) plus the offensive line of the Patriots can easily account for the 11 TD and 25 Sack difference.

Now I'm not trying to pass Brady off as a bum, he certainly is not. He is clearly among the top QB's of today, but does one season with marginally better stats than Culpepper's best year make him the GOAT QB?? I think not!

[SportsWorld]

Super Bowl Rings:
Brady 3
Culpepper: 0
/thread

[Heat3]

Super Bowl Rings:
Brady 3
Culpepper: 0
/thread

So now 3 rings makes Brady the GOAT? What about Montana with 4? What about Bradshaw with 4?

Perhaps next time READ my argument before responding. The argument is not is Tom Brady better than Culpepper.....

[SportsWorld]

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So now 3 rings makes Brady the GOAT? What about Montana with 4? What about Bradshaw with 4?

Perhaps next time READ my argument before responding. The argument is not is Tom Brady better than Culpepper.....

I know what your argument is. Tom Brady 2007 vs Culpepper 2004.
Keep in mind, Randy Moss WAS NOT the leading receiver on the Vikings that year. It was Nate Burleson with 1,006 receiving yards. Randy Moss only had 767 yards that year. Imagine if Brady had 2004 Burleson and 2004 Moss.

[Pats19andO]

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So now 3 rings makes Brady the GOAT? What about Montana with 4? What about Bradshaw with 4?

Perhaps next time READ my argument before responding. The argument is not is Tom Brady better than Culpepper.....

Than what is it?

How bout we compare Jerry Stackhouse to D wade.

Stack
00-01 DET 30 ppg 4 rpg 5 apg

D wade
07 08 MIA 24 ppg 4 rpg 7apg

as you can see, a now scrub is possibly equal to Dwyane? I think not

Dwade< Stack
Brady< Culpepper

[Heat3]

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I know what your argument is. Tom Brady 2007 vs Culpepper 2004.
Keep in mind, Randy Moss WAS NOT the leading receiver on the Vikings that year. It was Nate Burleson with 1,006 receiving yards. Randy Moss only had 767 yards that year. Imagine if Brady had 2004 Burleson and 2004 Moss.

I would imagine his numbers would be less than what he had this year. Wes Welker topped everything Nate did with 1 less TD. Nate, like Wes benefited by having Moss distract the defense. Wes is also a slipper little guy who has a knack for making something out of nothing. This is no longer a secret lol.

[Heat3]

[quote="Pats19andO"][/quote]

Why am I not surprised someone with a username of Pats19and0 completely miss the point of the thread on so many levels? Rather than type out all of them, let's keep it simple:

1) Neither of those players have ever been proclaimed to be the GOAT
2) This is NOT A BASKETBALL THREAD........

[Pats19andO]

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Why am I not surprised someone with a username of Pats19and0 completely miss the point of the thread on so many levels? Rather than type out all of them, let's keep it simple:

1) Neither of those players have ever been proclaimed to be the GOAT
2) This is NOT A BASKETBALL THREAD........

who said that?
i was putting it into perspective in how you overblow stats

[travis minor]

dwade= goat

[Fatty]

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who said that?
i was putting it into perspective in how you overblow stats

You put it in perspective by comparing NFL QB Stats, which is a good way to judge QBs, to NBA players stats.

[lpsevier]

I think when discussing someone as the GOAT their entire body of work is usually taken into account - something you have failed to do in illustrating your point.

[Heat3]

I think when discussing someone as the GOAT their entire body of work is usually taken into account - something you have failed to do in illustrating your point.

I don't believe I failed there. As his career accomplishments now vs what he had last season are no different other than a having individual stats padded all season long. I'm pretty sure at this point last year most would say Peyton was the better QB and Brady had the better system. So what changed from then til now to elevate him to the GOAT? It must be his individual stats. My point is that his AMAZING season was only marginally better than what Daunte put up. IMO that is not enough to mark him as the GOAT.

[Gibbs]

IMO, the GOAT starts with Joe Montana

Sure Brady could eventually pass him (and maybe even Manning if he wins some more SB's), but no one has ever been able to take over a playoff game like Montana except maybe Johnny Unitas, who only has one SB.

His Regular Season stats don't jump out at you but he was awesome in the playoffs.

QB's I'd say are better than Brady: Montana, Unitas and Elway
On par with Brady: Manning, Favre and Marino

Yes, as you can see I'm not a Brady fan, maybe if he puts up a couple more great years and wins a superbowl by playing a bigger role, the defense won the first three.

[CBS7]

First of all, 11 TDs is a big difference.
Second of all, that was a pretty damn good year by Culpepper, and is still the 5th most TDs ever thrown in a season by any QB.
11 TDs better then a damn good year is a damn big difference.

As for Brady being the best ever, he has the stats, and he has the rings...

Its probable that Brady throws 35+ TDs each of the next few years as the Patriots win another superbowl or two.

And I hate them.

[Bleeding Green]

Brady 2007: 62% DVOA, 200.1 DPAR
Culpepper 2004: 41.9% DVOA, 136.4 DPAR (Tom Brady that year had a 33.3 DVOA and 113.4 DPAR)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2004.php

Culpepper had an amazing year. I don't know what the point of this thread is other than to point out that one quarterback had a fluke year and approached was Brady did this year.

Manning still has the best QB season ever in 2004.

[hermes]

they were saying that if brady set all of these records and won the super bowl he would be the best ever or at least very arguable
the fact is he is in the discussion as the goat
because unlike culpepper who had one really great year tom brady has been consistently good for a while and especially in the playoffs where goat's are judged

you can't determine whether or not a person is the goat based off of one season

[Elway=GOAT]

I think hermes makes a good point. Brady has proven that he is very reliable in the playoffs. Which is why, I would always want him over Manning, or Palmer, Rothlisberger, Garrard or whoever you wanna throw out there. Even Marc Bulger we heard was better. Brady has shown with elite talent on the offenensive side of the ball, he can put up Peyton Mannnig type numbers. He isnt nearly as much a no show as Manning in the playoffs either imo.

Another thing is, you have to seperate QB's. Especially pre 04' to now. Guys are putting up rediculous numbers after the rules change, that they normally wouldnt. Brett Favre has had his best season this past year, and hes 38 years old. I mean if that dosen't say something I dont know what does. Culpepper benifeted in 04 from the rule change as well.

Warners 99 season, was possibly the most impressive season for a QB I have seen.

[magicfan4life05]

^ what were some of the rule changes that affected qbs?

[Elway=GOAT]

^ what were some of the rule changes that affected qbs?

It affects the entire passing game. It allows corners to not be able to touch a WR, after 5 yards. Which is why, we keep seeing QB's who keep setting rediculous records, and putting up rediculous numbers. Passing efficency is up, ints are down. Its just easier to throw the ball down the field.

Tony Romo and Daunte Culpepper are putting up seasons, Montana and Elway, etc have ever had. We are seeing guys, just put up rediculous numbers post 2003 and it all has to do with that rule change.

[J.Kim]

I think hermes makes a good point. Brady has proven that he is very reliable in the playoffs. Which is why, I would always want him over Manning, or Palmer, Rothlisberger, Garrard or whoever you wanna throw out there. Even Marc Bulger we heard was better. Brady has shown with elite talent on the offenensive side of the ball, he can put up Peyton Mannnig type numbers. He isnt nearly as much a no show as Manning in the playoffs either imo.

Another thing is, you have to seperate QB's. Especially pre 04' to now. Guys are putting up rediculous numbers after the rules change, that they normally wouldnt. Brett Favre has had his best season this past year, and hes 38 years old. I mean if that dosen't say something I dont know what does. Culpepper benifeted in 04 from the rule change as well.

Warners 99 season, was possibly the most impressive season for a QB I have seen.

Just nitpicking here, but it wasn't really a rule change, but rather, a more strict enforcement of a rule that was changed years ago.

...And

...Is this topic serious?
You can't honestly believe that one year makes or breaks a QB as a GOAT? Look at the entire body of work, not some narrow-minded and tunnel-visioned view at one single season.

I don't believe I failed there. As his career accomplishments now vs what he had last season are no different other than a having individual stats padded all season long. I'm pretty sure at this point last year most would say Peyton was the better QB and Brady had the better system. So what changed from then til now to elevate him to the GOAT? It must be his individual stats. My point is that his AMAZING season was only marginally better than what Daunte put up. IMO that is not enough to mark him as the GOAT.

You've completely missed the point. The difference is, except for one other season, Daunte has never placed in the top-10 of DVOA or DPAR (IIRC). Never. Brady on the other hand, along with Peyton Manning, has been the only QB in the past 5 seasons to consistently place in the top-10 (maybe perhaps even the top-7) of DVOA and DPAR (IIRC).

And he's not just a "systems" QB. If you've actually paid attention to his team, you can see that the Offensive philosophy of the Patriots has changed quite a bit over the time. Even moving to a spread offense like he has this season (like Peyton's been playing for the past couple of seasons) has significantly improved his raw and advanced statistics.

Brady has been a consistently great QB working with marginal skill position players through all this time. Now that he has actual talent on those skill positions, he has shown that he's able to match up to Peyton's juggernaut offensive output, and even exceed him.