Potential Zach Trade Partners? Playoff Edition.

[jnrjr79]

It's mind boggling to see proposed Zach trades that solve zero problems for us.

If the returning player isn't a pretty obvious upgrade at the 4/5 positions or a high level prospect, I don't see the point in trading Zach at all.

From everything that's publicly available in terms of reporting, it does not sound like either side has any interest in Zach returning, so I assume he's out of here if there's a market for him. The only way I see him sticking around is if he has to demonstrate he's healthy before anyone will trade for his salary.

IMO, the ship has sailed on the "well, what if we keep Zach after all" scenarios.

You're probably right, but I don't really care what Zach or AK want. If there isn't a trade to improve us we shouldn't do it. Now that improvement can either be now or in the future, but I wouldn't dump Zach just to formalize a divorce.

If by "improve the team" you mean "well maybe improve the team but primarily get out of the luxury tax," then I think that's what we are pretty likely to see. AK says he's not going into the tax unless the Bulls are in the top 4, that he wants to extend DeRozan, and that he wants to keep PWill. There just aren't a lot of ways to do all that without a Zach trade involving significant salary relief, so my guess would be that'll be objective #1, and getting actual useful assets will be viewed as a bonus.

That's just a guess. Maybe they surprise us and trade DeMar or let him walk. Maybe some team would take Vooch in a pure salary dump. But my guess is they're first going to try to get salary relief via Zach, since both sides seem to want the same thing.

[dougthonus]

You're probably right, but I don't really care what Zach or AK want. If there isn't a trade to improve us we shouldn't do it. Now that improvement can either be now or in the future, but I wouldn't dump Zach just to formalize a divorce.

If Zach is truly a malcontent, his value isn't going to go up later, nor is a better trade going to be on the table later. If that is the case, it is an addition by subtraction move to go on.

I don't know that this is the case, maybe Zach is open to coming back and will give his best, but if he Harden's it or Simmons's it then you're better off moving him this offseason.

The problem that might be solved is simply removing his cap hit in a year and that might be better than not removing it.

[MrSparkle]

Brooklyn

[Red8911]

It's mind boggling to see proposed Zach trades that solve zero problems for us.

If the returning player isn't a pretty obvious upgrade at the 4/5 positions or a high level prospect, I don't see the point in trading Zach at all.

From everything that's publicly available in terms of reporting, it does not sound like either side has any interest in Zach returning, so I assume he's out of here if there's a market for him. The only way I see him sticking around is if he has to demonstrate he's healthy before anyone will trade for his salary.

IMO, the ship has sailed on the "well, what if we keep Zach after all" scenarios.

Yeah the way AK just totally ignored a question about Zach says it all. He actually wanted to trade him for over a year now but has been waiting for the perfect deal.

Problem is AK has waited too long and Zach now has the lowest value he’s ever had.He messed up big time for not completing a trade from last off season.

[League Circles]

I find it very hard to believe that Zach would cause problems. He's too professional and has too much time left on his deal to go down that road IMO. I'd probably be much more ok with a pure 1 year dump of his deal (such as for Ben Simmons) than I would some kind of deal that brings back more mediocre players with more years left that dont fit our needs.

[ChiTownHero1992]

ATL, PHI and SAC seem like the most obvious ones for me. It wont be in division, I highly doubt the FO would want to send him in conference either though unless the offer was to good to be true. Last thing they want is to see Lavine 4+ times and on a "playoff team" possibly being a top 2 player on it. Not saying Zach will do that because I think he on a "playoff team" is a 3rd 4th option anyway but could see it that they play out sending him West.

[dougthonus]

I posted separately, but Barnes + Huerter is one I've seen floating around a lot as an idea. If the Kings think they need more firepower and like Zach then this move makes a lot of sense for both sides.

I can see the Bulls doing this because it saves aa decent chunk of salary, but positionally it's a bit awkward if Coby, Ayo, and DeMar are around.

Has Barnes reached that point of "old 6'8'' SF is now a 4 and not a 3?" Hell, even if he hasn't, I suppose Billy will happily play him there.

Barnes has definitely reached that point.

[burlydee]

I'm starting to think the postseason might increase the number of potential trade partners for, and the value of, a Zach trade. Just to get it started for discussion, which will change based on series' outcomes.

1. Atlanta: Hard to imagine them not pursuing a major shake up, and the only way to do that is by trading Young. Murray is better for contention level team building, and it appears they finally figured it out. And despite their defensive issues, Zach is a much better fit with Murray and though not much of a defender he's definitely an upgrade over Trae on that end. Plus Zach (plus more) for Trae sounds like the type of "front page news" deal AK will feel pressured (in his own mind) to make and is entirely consistent with his MO.

2. Sixers: I have always felt this was the team that should be gunning for Zach. To me he's a terrific off ball scorer playing third fiddle to Maxey and Embiid and would provide things they clearly lack. If they go down to the Knicks while struggling to score, perhaps something here heats up.

3. Warriors: They need to move on, and they won't find a better partner for Curry than Zach given the presumed price. Maybe they get desperate and included Kuminga and picks to go after an even bigger fish, but if they are looking for something involving less assets then Zach should get a real look.

4. Lakers: Hard to imagine them not looking to add a major talent if they get whooped by Denver.

Others? I have entered the offseason thinking Zach won't have trade value until we rehabilitate him for a month or two next year. But I'm starting to think postseason results might raise his value without the Bulls doing anything at all.

I think you have to look at teams with cap space, particularly teams that can't attract free agents. Utah, Charlotte, and Detroit have to be mentioned. I think Philly would rather have Demar. So would LA.

I just don't think Atl makes sense. Zach is just a less impactful version of Tre.

[ChettheJet]

PHIL has a bunch of expired contracts so not much to send back. I doubt the Bulls want 4 Laker bench guys back to balance the money, that's worse than a rebuild or reset. A lot of Zach trades probably need to be 3 way trades. I don't buy this buddy talk about him and Murray so he likes ATL. The only way he goes to GSW is if they don't bring back Klay or ship Draymond.

What makes some sense as I've said before is DET. They aren't gong to start winning next year, at least 2 more and 2 more lottery picks before their young core COULD gel. So they get Zach to take scoring pressure off of everybody. Remember that extra long losing streak they had, you know when they could only beat the Bulls? Zach could have pumped in a few 40 point games and broken up that streak. By the time Zach comes to his option or is expiring maybe they can move him at the deadline. Maybe CHA if he and Ball could coordinate their injury schedules 28 games each and 26 together.

[Red8911]

PHIL has a bunch of expired contracts so not much to send back. I doubt the Bulls want 4 Laker bench guys back to balance the money, that's worse than a rebuild or reset. A lot of Zach trades probably need to be 3 way trades. I don't buy this buddy talk about him and Murray so he likes ATL. The only way he goes to GSW is if they don't bring back Klay or ship Draymond.

What makes some sense as I've said before is DET. They aren't gong to start winning next year, at least 2 more and 2 more lottery picks before their young core COULD gel. So they get Zach to take scoring pressure off of everybody. Remember that extra long losing streak they had, you know when they could only beat the Bulls? Zach could have pumped in a few 40 point games and broken up that streak. By the time Zach comes to his option or is expiring maybe they can move him at the deadline. Maybe CHA if he and Ball could coordinate their injury schedules 28 games each and 26 together.

If they try to trade Zach to Detroit again he will break his knee on purpose and be out for the year.

[League Circles]

From everything that's publicly available in terms of reporting, it does not sound like either side has any interest in Zach returning, so I assume he's out of here if there's a market for him. The only way I see him sticking around is if he has to demonstrate he's healthy before anyone will trade for his salary.

IMO, the ship has sailed on the "well, what if we keep Zach after all" scenarios.

You're probably right, but I don't really care what Zach or AK want. If there isn't a trade to improve us we shouldn't do it. Now that improvement can either be now or in the future, but I wouldn't dump Zach just to formalize a divorce.

If by "improve the team" you mean "well maybe improve the team but primarily get out of the luxury tax," then I think that's what we are pretty likely to see. AK says he's not going into the tax unless the Bulls are in the top 4, that he wants to extend DeRozan, and that he wants to keep PWill. There just aren't a lot of ways to do all that without a Zach trade involving significant salary relief, so my guess would be that'll be objective #1, and getting actual useful assets will be viewed as a bonus.

That's just a guess. Maybe they surprise us and trade DeMar or let him walk. Maybe some team would take Vooch in a pure salary dump. But my guess is they're first going to try to get salary relief via Zach, since both sides seem to want the same thing.

Just curious cause I didn't watch, do you or anyone recall exactly the phrasing when he said top 4 seed for luxury tax? I'd like to think (and have always thought since the Paxson era) that that is based on being projected top 4, not already proven. Just cause that's how things work. For example say you had two great young players finishing their 3rd year, but nothing else to speak of, and you were like a 6 or 7 seed, but you have double max cap space. And you sign two max free agents. You do that knowing full well that when those two young guys get their max in a year and you have 4 max guys plus role players, you're going to be a tax team, but you do it cause you're a projected top 4.

Now, the projection of US being top 4 next year under any likely set of moves is low we'd all agree, but that doesn't mean AK won't try to convince Reinsdorf that it can happen if we make trades X and Y and re-sign Demar, Patrick and Drummond for what it takes.

I in fact basically hope we do pay the tax, though I'd like to see that with flexibility, so basically large very short term deals. Would love to see 1+1 (team option) deals for all 3 of Demar, Patrick and Drummond. Though frankly I'd try to sign Drummond to like a 4 year deal worth like 16-18 mil total if possible. Locks up a starting caliber talent at C (and you usually want two at all times) for 4 years.

[Muzbar]

I've had similar thoughts about Atlanta, that seems to be the clear most likely opportunity. My issue is outside of hating Trae the player, the one position you need least is G with Coby/Ayo both young, improving, and on good contracts. But maybe Bulls can route Trae elsewhere for picks and/or young players. Would Detroit take him as a star to pair with Cade and send some youngsters? If AK ends up with a team of Trae/Coby/Ayo and Vuc and lets DDR go...... . (Essentially swaping DDR and Zach for Trae is exactly the kind of catastrophically stupid idea I imagine this FO is drooling over.)

Would the Kings try to make a move up by adding Zach? They went after him a while back and have some younger players who might need contracts soon in Monk/Murray.

Not sure how the 76ers make a deal work, even though they'd seemingly be interested. Probably have to take back Harris, but they don't have a ton of talent you're drooling over to get (Embiid/Maxey excepted). Harris+picks? Does that move the needle for them?

TO m, snowing GSW that Zach is a solution of some sort and that in that system with Kerr, Dray, Curry he'll up his game is the wet dream. Some combo of Podz/TJD/Kuminga would be a coup.

Harris and Monk are both free agents.

Please say no to Trae Young, ideally Zach is a good fit next to Trae, if he was a good defender, but he's not so therefore Zach is a better fit with Murray (a tandem I wanted in Chicago).

If there is a deal involving Trae, I hope he gets moved elsewhere with draft assets etc coming back to the Bulls.

Philly makes good sense for Zach, but they seemingly aren't and haven't been interested, plus they seem to have their sights set on Paul George.

Kings are also a good fit. After (maybe during) the draft they'll have less restrictions on their draft picks and could be a bit more appealing.

Golden State I think is another great fit for Zach, alot depends on what they do with their current players and FAs also. CP3 would be a great salary filling and is non-guaranteed up until just after the draft. Getting 1 or 2 of their young pieces would be good and maybe a draft pick also.

Orlando is a team that could use Zachs scoring/shooting in the backcourt, they could offer picks and/or some young players in return.

The Lakers have nothing of value IMO, they can go kick rocks.

Nets would be a salary dump with picks coming back presumably.

[Jcool0]

Ship him off to LA for Reeves. Best both teams can do.

[jump]

Two trades:

Zach to Sacramento for Barnes and Huerter

then

Vuc and Caruso to the Warriors for
Wiggins, Looney and Podziemski

Bulls lineup:

Coby, Podz
Ayo, Green, Terry
DDR, Wiggins, Huerter
PW, Barnes, Phillips, Rookie
Drummond, Looney, Sanogo

Not a contender, but we've cleaned up some chronic problems and add talent. Significant bench improvement. Would GSW do it? We know they've always wanted a real center who can score. For all his faults, Vuc would be a great improvement over any center they've had in years. I'm sure they would be happy with Caruso over Wiggins. Podz is the price they have to pay. Is that a high enough price?

[Dan Z]

You're probably right, but I don't really care what Zach or AK want. If there isn't a trade to improve us we shouldn't do it. Now that improvement can either be now or in the future, but I wouldn't dump Zach just to formalize a divorce.

If by "improve the team" you mean "well maybe improve the team but primarily get out of the luxury tax," then I think that's what we are pretty likely to see. AK says he's not going into the tax unless the Bulls are in the top 4, that he wants to extend DeRozan, and that he wants to keep PWill. There just aren't a lot of ways to do all that without a Zach trade involving significant salary relief, so my guess would be that'll be objective #1, and getting actual useful assets will be viewed as a bonus.

That's just a guess. Maybe they surprise us and trade DeMar or let him walk. Maybe some team would take Vooch in a pure salary dump. But my guess is they're first going to try to get salary relief via Zach, since both sides seem to want the same thing.

Just curious cause I didn't watch, do you or anyone recall exactly the phrasing when he said top 4 seed for luxury tax? I'd like to think (and have always thought since the Paxson era) that that is based on being projected top 4, not already proven. Just cause that's how things work. For example say you had two great young players finishing their 3rd year, but nothing else to speak of, and you were like a 6 or 7 seed, but you have double max cap space. And you sign two max free agents. You do that knowing full well that when those two young guys get their max in a year and you have 4 max guys plus role players, you're going to be a tax team, but you do it cause you're a projected top 4.

Now, the projection of US being top 4 next year under any likely set of moves is low we'd all agree, but that doesn't mean AK won't try to convince Reinsdorf that it can happen if we make trades X and Y and re-sign Demar, Patrick and Drummond for what it takes.

I in fact basically hope we do pay the tax, though I'd like to see that with flexibility, so basically large very short term deals. Would love to see 1+1 (team option) deals for all 3 of Demar, Patrick and Drummond. Though frankly I'd try to sign Drummond to like a 4 year deal worth like 16-18 mil total if possible. Locks up a starting caliber talent at C (and you usually want two at all times) for 4 years.

The Bulls have only paid the luxury tax one time in franchise history and that's the 2012-13 season. Do you remember the specifics of that season? I don't. Looking back...Rose was coming off a missed season due to injury so paying the tax that year seems a little odd.

Those Thibs teams finished 3rd in the East twice, 5th once, and 1st twice. I know that in 2012 the Bulls traded Korver for cash, so the Bulls had salary concerns even though they were winning games.

I'd be surprised if they'd be willing to pay the tax for a team that hypothetically could finish in the top 4 in the East. I imagine it'll have to be proven first (just look at those Thibs teams...they finished 1st two times in a row before the tax was paid).

[Chuck Everett]

Problem is, Lavine makes too much money. Trading him is hard because he is overpaid for what he actually does to help a team win. Only a few teams need chuckers who don't do anything else. Orlando being the main one. Bulls are probably going to have to receive a pupu platter because that's all Zach is worth.

[sco]

Two trades:

Zach to Sacramento for Barnes and Huerter

then

Vuc and Caruso to the Warriors for
Wiggins, Looney and Podziemski

Bulls lineup:

Coby, Podz
Ayo, Green, Terry
DDR, Wiggins, Huerter
PW, Barnes, Phillips, Rookie
Drummond, Looney, Sanogo

Not a contender, but we've cleaned up some chronic problems and add talent. Significant bench improvement. Would GSW do it? We know they've always wanted a real center who can score. For all his faults, Vuc would be a great improvement over any center they've had in years. I'm sure they would be happy with Caruso over Wiggins. Podz is the price they have to pay. Is that a high enough price?

While I appreciate the idea, this is the sort of Zach trade that would be terrible for us. Pure salary dump that brings in guys who aren't starting talent with no upside. We still have zero cap to use to get better, which IMO, is the usual reason for this type of deal. I don't love the Caruso deal, but at least we'd nab Podz.

[dougthonus]

I find it very hard to believe that Zach would cause problems. He's too professional and has too much time left on his deal to go down that road IMO. I'd probably be much more ok with a pure 1 year dump of his deal (such as for Ben Simmons) than I would some kind of deal that brings back more mediocre players with more years left that dont fit our needs.

I don't know why you'd find that hard to believe as a possibility. I'm not saying it's the likely outcome, but it sure wouldn't shock me. Probably not Ben Simmons/James Harden malcontent bad, but disengaged and hurting the team's chances of winning bad because he's just not going hard or gets too selfish trying to show off for other teams? Yeah, I can see that pretty easily.

[sco]

I find it very hard to believe that Zach would cause problems. He's too professional and has too much time left on his deal to go down that road IMO. I'd probably be much more ok with a pure 1 year dump of his deal (such as for Ben Simmons) than I would some kind of deal that brings back more mediocre players with more years left that dont fit our needs.

I don't know why you'd find that hard to believe as a possibility. I'm not saying it's the likely outcome, but it sure wouldn't shock me. Probably not Ben Simmons/James Harden malcontent bad, but disengaged and hurting the team's chances of winning bad because he's just not going hard or gets too selfish trying to show off for other teams? Yeah, I can see that pretty easily.

I do wonder if we didn't bring back Demar if Zach's attitude wouldn't immediately improve as he could become the #1 option (which I think is at the root of his discontent).

[LateNight]

I find it very hard to believe that Zach would cause problems. He's too professional and has too much time left on his deal to go down that road IMO. I'd probably be much more ok with a pure 1 year dump of his deal (such as for Ben Simmons) than I would some kind of deal that brings back more mediocre players with more years left that dont fit our needs.

I don't know why you'd find that hard to believe as a possibility. I'm not saying it's the likely outcome, but it sure wouldn't shock me. Probably not Ben Simmons/James Harden malcontent bad, but disengaged and hurting the team's chances of winning bad because he's just not going hard or gets too selfish trying to show off for other teams? Yeah, I can see that pretty easily.

I do wonder if we didn't bring back Demar if Zach's attitude wouldn't immediately improve as he could become the #1 option (which I think is at the root of his discontent).

Maybe - but Zach isn’t a number 1 option and shouldn’t be in that position