League Circles wrote:Stratmaster wrote:League Circles wrote:
You said he hasn't lived up to his #7 draft slot, which means you think there are at least 7 guys FROM HIS DRAFT that are better than him. That's what I asked. Didn't mention anything about this draft. There are very rarely 7 guys from one draft who end up being better long term than Coby is now (which is what should matter to most people).
Coby wasn't a relatively inefficient scorer this season. That's nonsense. He was right about league average on high volume.
And yeah, you often cite ppg in a lot of discussions on this board. You're among the only people still trying to use that to establish player value in any context.
No, I don't. Maybe you are thinking of someone else. The PPG is what supporters of Coby are using to justify the MIP, which is why I responded to that, AND PUT THEM IN CONTEXT by mentioning about 4 times, in various discussions, that he took 7.3 more shots per game. Talk about twisting the discussion. So, for your case, take his PPG increase away and tell me how he improved.
And he absolutely was relatively inefficient. Relative probably isn't even a necessary adjective. The Bulls gave 7.3 more shots per game to a player scoring at .570 TS%? Should we give Torrey Craig 7.3 more shots per game? How about Alex Caruso and Javonte Green? Coby had the 7th best TS% on the team of the major rotational players. Also the 7th highest PER. The 8th best FG%. The 5th best 3 point %. The 6th best eFG%. That is just ON THE BULLS team.
7 guys from Coby's draft who are better and more valuable overall players? Zion Williamson. Ja Morant. RJ Barrett, Darius Garland, Tyler Herro, Brandon Clarke, Claxton, KPJ, Gafford. That's 10. Throw out whatever 3 you "feel" aren't better. But the objective data will say otherwise.
A case could be made for Hunter,Jordan Poole, but I wouldn't buy it.
I think stats, even "advanced" ones, are often misleading. To me and most others, Coby has obviously improved in virtually all aspects of his game. Sometimes the eye test is most revealing. Are you under the impression that a player can be established as better or worse than another player objectively via stats? I strongly disagree.
I'd take Coby over Barrett, Herro, Clark, Claxton, KPJ, and Gafford. I admit they can all be debated. Can you?
You can't "give" players more shots. If you could, a guy like a Tyson Chandler would have simply been given 40 shots a game and be the GOAT. We've tried to give Caruso more shots. He often wouldn't take them at least last year. Same with Ayo. Coby had the 7th best TS% among the major rotation players? You're really gonna include Green and Zach with a straight face? Only Ayo and Alex beat Coby by more than 1% TS, and they were lower volume.
You're really on an island with Coby and have been all year.
No, I'm not on an island. Quit saying that crap. I was definitely in a minority. And was the first to state it. Turns out every single thing I said was correct.
Alex and Ayo beat Coby by 4%. Not 1%. And you understand there is a reason TS% is extrapolated to the thousandth, right?
Why wouldn't you include Lavine? Only having 25 games and the injuries resulted in his lowest TS% since 2019; and it was still better than Coby who had his 2nd best ever TS, and hit .570 for only the 2nd time in his career. Javonte Green is a lifetime .626. His PER last season was the same as Coby's this season.
I will admit there are valid arguments comparing some of those players I listed to Coby. You asked my opinion, I gave it.
As far as admitting goes, how about you admit that you and a lot of others got all hyped about Coby during his hot streak forgetting he has had similar streaks in previous seasons. Coby regressed to the mean in every way. Shooting, ball handling (still better than he used to be) defense...and absolutely in his decision making.
Coby is exactly who he has always been. Which isn't bad. It just isn't MIP, all-star, or high quality starter caliber like many were saying...or hoping...or wishing.
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