Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[TheSuzerain]

Just not interested in Ingram.

Classic bad team star.

[sco]

Just not interested in Ingram.

Classic bad team star.

Sure, but if we are trading Zach this offseason, that's the best type of player you can hope for.

[Jcool0]

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[Andi Obst]

Just not interested in Ingram.

Classic bad team star.

Sure, but if we are trading Zach this offseason, that's the best type of player you can hope for.

While that may be true, I think it makes much more sense to go after fitting role players than Ingram. Ingram doesn't solve any real problems for you. He's got the same issues Zach has: not good enough to be the main guy on a good team, but that's the only role he can play. He's bad off-ball (that's why the Pelicans want to deal him, after all). He doesn't really try on defense. He loves his midrange jumpers too much. He's not a good playmaker. And on top of that, you'll likely be the team that gives him his next contract...and I'm terrified of that idea.

Going after Ingram makes 0 sense IMO.

[kulaz3000]

Top priority even before trading Zach is to get rid of Vuc. Unfortunately for the front office and us Bulls fans is that neither or both those players is going to net us anything of significance unless we package in a player in those deals, like Coby, Ayo, Alex or perhaps even Phillips.

If I were the Bulls I’d sell high on either Ayo and Coby, because let’s be real, neither of those players values are going to be as high as this off season. They are both coming off career seasons, going into season 2 of 3 of bargain contracts. I know there is always an attachment to your own draft selections, but those two are probably some of our great assets.

[Chi town]

Top priority even before trading Zach is to get rid of Vuc. Unfortunately for the front office and us Bulls fans is that neither or both those players is going to net us anything of significance unless we package in a player in those deals, like Coby, Ayo, Alex or perhaps even Phillips.

If I were the Bulls I’d sell high on either Ayo and Coby, because let’s be real, neither of those players values are going to be as high as this off season. They are both coming off career seasons, going into season 2 of 3 of bargain contracts. I know there is always an attachment to your own draft selections, but those two are probably some of our great assets.

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

[sco]

Top priority even before trading Zach is to get rid of Vuc. Unfortunately for the front office and us Bulls fans is that neither or both those players is going to net us anything of significance unless we package in a player in those deals, like Coby, Ayo, Alex or perhaps even Phillips.

If I were the Bulls I’d sell high on either Ayo and Coby, because let’s be real, neither of those players values are going to be as high as this off season. They are both coming off career seasons, going into season 2 of 3 of bargain contracts. I know there is always an attachment to your own draft selections, but those two are probably some of our great assets.

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

Per wiretap, NO isn't bringing back JV because of fit with Zion. Maybe Vuc and his outside shooting would fit the bill?

I would happily attach a couple of 2nds to Vuc to be rid of him, although I agree that AK won't do this. And honestly, if Billy had the balls to bring him off the bench (like he will likely be in his next NBA role), he would thrive, IMO. Vuc is a bumslayer, so just play him against bums...there are a bunch of them in the NBA.

[dougthonus]

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

Pretty unlikely that Ayo or Coby have significant steps left to take. They don't have dominant athleticism or skills that would make you think there is tons of head room there. Opportunity definitely isn't holding them back either. They've had plenty of it. They're good players, but they aren't likely to be star players.

[MrSparkle]

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

Pretty unlikely that Ayo or Coby have significant steps left to take. They don't have dominant athleticism or skills that would make you think there is tons of head room there. Opportunity definitely isn't holding them back either. They've had plenty of it. They're good players, but they aren't likely to be star players.

I never say never, but I think players with great destinies step up when needed. Coby (and Ayo) pulled a Zach/Joe Johnson/Vuc in the Jimmy-less Heat play-in, and of course it’s a “learning experience”, but truth is they don’t have “it.”

Special players get a thrill out of *every* pressure/up-hill game, and show their best regardless of whatever adversities. Coby and Ayo were healthy, available, and they shot 8-31 with 5 TOs against a very short-handed team.

They’re definite bargains right now, but there’s exactly 1 season left of that bargain salary. After that, they might become overpaid mediocre starters. Something to weigh and consider (which AK will not).

But I do agree it’d be nice to see them with a better PF/C, and one more off-season. Wouldn’t “shoe-in” some grandiose improvement though. Very hard to overcome the NBA hype, scouting, and pressure.

[sco]

My optimistic best case scenario is that the Bulls can't reach a deal with Demar and are somehow able to work a S&T deal with the Lakers and bring back an asset or two. Then I'd try work a deal to trade Caruso, maybe to GS for more assets. I'd keep Zach and Vuc to let their trade value increase for up to the whole season (Vuc will become an expiring after next season and may be moveable). I'd use the "we'll match any offer" strategy with PW, which could result in us keeping him for something like 3/$40M. Let's say Ball comes back, we'd be looking at:

Coby, Ayo, Zach, Ball, PW, Phillips, Vuc, our pick, misc assets from trades

We use the season to sort out which guys might be useful going forward and try to cobble assets together to bring back a meaningful assets either during or after the season.

[DuckIII]

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

Pretty unlikely that Ayo or Coby have significant steps left to take. They don't have dominant athleticism or skills that would make you think there is tons of head room there. Opportunity definitely isn't holding them back either. They've had plenty of it. They're good players, but they aren't likely to be star players.

I don’t think either of them are star players either. But they are both good and useful players that any team would like to have. And they are young. Not projecting as superstars isn’t a reason to trade them.

Also, I actually very much expect further and notable growth from Ayo. Coby may have had his big leap and could in theory have minimal room future growth. But I reject the premise as to Ayo and on both ends of the court.

And while “opportunity” has not held them back, play style absolutely has held back all three of Coby, Ayo and Pat. All three, and especially Ayo and Coby, are much better suited to play an open court fast style. But that is not allowed as we cater to DDR and Vuc (and even Zach who despite incredible athleticism has always appeared to prefer a half court game). These guys best attributes rot on the vine while we walk the ball up the court for The Three at the 28th slowest pace in the league. Just one more absurdity of AK’s **** show.

And last, and not particularly consistent with the rest of my post, Coby and Ayo don’t have significant stand alone trade value. Trading them at “peak value” gets us what that makes any sense?

If you can enhance the value of DDR or Zach into a star player package by adding Ayo or Coby (which you almost certainly cannot) then sure. But Kodo’s idea of trading them simply because their value is high, without considering the rest of the factors, does not track.

[sco]

Crazy talk. Give Ayo and Coby a defensive center and more shooting without DDR slowing them down and watch them both take another step.

Pretty unlikely that Ayo or Coby have significant steps left to take. They don't have dominant athleticism or skills that would make you think there is tons of head room there. Opportunity definitely isn't holding them back either. They've had plenty of it. They're good players, but they aren't likely to be star players.

I don’t think either of them are star players either. But they are both good and useful players that any team would like to have. And they are young. Not projecting as superstars isn’t a reason to trade them.

Also, I actually very much expect further and notable growth from Ayo. Coby may have had his big leap and could in theory have minimal room future growth. But I reject the premise as to Ayo and on both ends of the court.

And while “opportunity” has not held them back, play style absolutely has held back all three of Coby, Ayo and Pat. All three, and especially Ayo and Coby, are much better suited to play an open court fast style. But that is not allowed as we cater to DDR and Vuc (and even Zach who despite incredible athleticism has always appeared to prefer a half court game). These guys best attributes rot on the vine while we walk the ball up the court for The Three at the 28th slowest pace in the league. Just one more absurdity of AK’s **** show.

And last, and no particularly consistent with the rest of my post, Coby and Ayo don’t have significant stand alone trade value. Trading them at “peak value” gets us what that makes any sense?

If you can enhance the value of DDR or Zach into a star player package by adding Ayo or Coby (which you almost certainly cannot) then sure. But Kodo’s idea of trading them simply because their value is high, without considering the rest of the factors, does not track.

I think the situation with Ayo and Coby is fluid. Statistically, guys don't get much better after the amount of time they've had; however, both guys have shown me that they have the work ethic to be what I call "continual improvers" (I'll use Taj as an example, rather than Jimmy because I don't want set star level expectations). That said, I think the team's ultimate goal should be to find its next foundational player and it shouldn't let any guy on the roster be the stumbling block to getting that guy because turn-arounds don't really begin until you have the foundational piece. It doesn't mean you need to suck until then, but if not sucking, flexibility should be the goal.

[dougthonus]

I don’t think either of them are star players either. But they are both good and useful players that any team would like to have. And they are young. Not projecting as superstars isn’t a reason to trade them.

I agree. Though this wasn't the context or point I was quoting. I was simply discussing whether they would be star players. I would consider trading them based on not being able to maximize the value of their low price tag prior to having to reup on them as UFAs, but I wouldn't have them on a "must trade" list. Trading them would be more about entering a deep rebuild and tossing the next two years and collecting assets because their value will be higher now on these low contracts than in the future, but as we both know, we aren't going to go down that route. In the route we are going to go down, they're both extremely valuable as low salary / good performers to offset some of the bad salary we have.

Also, I actually very much expect further and notable growth from Ayo. Coby may have had his big leap and could in theory have minimal room future growth. But I reject the premise as to Ayo and on both ends of the court.

I think this would dive very much into a semantic debate pretty quickly based on what you believe a big leap for either is. I'll put it this way: I don't think either guy is a top 50 player in the NBA in the future. I think they're both probably "starter" caliber when they hit their peaks and then how well they look will depend a lot on whether you utilize them correctly and whether they fit what you need. I think both should continue to make iterative improvements, and both will have long valuable careers contributing to the teams they play on in large roles.

And while “opportunity” has not held them back, play style absolutely has held back all three of Coby, Ayo and Pat. All three, and especially Ayo and Coby, are much better suited to play an open court fast style. But that is not allowed as we cater to DDR and Vuc (and even Zach who despite incredible athleticism has always appeared to prefer a half court game).

I agree, but I don't think a different style of play would catapult them into meaningfully different players either. I agree the team isn't optimized for them, though teams are rarely optimized for players like them unless they happen to be optimized fitting next to the star players on the team. A team trading for them, would be far more likely to optimize around them because they would target them explicitly because they fit the needs.

I also think this last year wasn't too far off from optimizing either guy. When the big three were all healthy it was definitely a lot worse.

And last, and no particularly consistent with the rest of my post, Coby and Ayo don’t have significant stand alone trade value. Trading them at “peak value” gets us what that makes any sense?

Only makes sense to trade them if you're doing a deep rebuild and get two 1sts IMO. We definitely aren't going to do the rebuild, and the picks are probably not on the table (I wouldn't rule out the possibility depending on protection though).

If you can enhance the value of DDR or Zach into a star player package by adding Ayo or Coby (which you almost certainly cannot) then sure. But Kodo’s idea of trading them simply because their value is high, without considering the rest of the factors, does not track.

I agree. I would only situationally shop them if the value is high AND if we were going to change course significantly. A lot of the thing with any trade is realizing that trades generally do not create excess value. They transform one set of value into a different set. Thus trades systemically need to be used in combination with a holistic approach to what you are trying to do and make your value transformations make sense with a grander scheme.

[prolific passer]

Just not interested in Ingram.

Classic bad team star.

Same except for the bad team star. He can be a good #2 option on a playoff team somewhere imo.

Wonder how the pelicans feel about Zion at this point. I'm sure the injuries are making them frustrated. Also up and down motivation to be there which is probably the cause of him not in no rush to return from even the most minor of injuries.

[nanokooshball]

If Donnavan Mitchell doesn't want to resign w the Cavs after this year... Think we could do a sign and trade?

Zach Lavine for Mitchell. Maybe trade Coby for a couple low firsts or a high first round pick and swing it Cavs so they don't trade him elsewhere? Gives the Cavs a more balanced team to allow Garland to grow again and Mobley to build up his offensive game. I'm not that sold on Mitchell, but it takes us out of the worse hell that we have right now?

Trade Vuc, Craig for Wiggins / Looney
Trade Derozan for Batum, Oubre

So then line up would be...

Ayo / Caruso / Lonzo?
Mitchell / Terry
Williams / Oubre
Wiggins / Batum / Javonte Green
Drummond / Looney

Moves Williams to his more effective 3. Have a decent defensive font court and versatile defense around Mitchell. I think this is the key to make it work with Mitchell. You have strong perimeter defenders around Mitchell and good 3 pt shooting. Could move Batum to 5 for spacing.

[jnrjr79]

Just not interested in Ingram.

Classic bad team star.

Sure, but if we are trading Zach this offseason, that's the best type of player you can hope for.

Which is why the Bulls should trade him into a team's cap space for a package built around draft assets rather than vets.

[Peelboy]

You guys are all missing AK's clear long-term master plan that he's been lining up for this particular offseason.

1. Waive/stretch Lonzo.
2. Draft Bronny
3. Sign LeBron to whatever exception is available or use whatever cap space they have. He gets to play with his kid, in a big market, with him the team could contend, and if he wins a ring in Chicago, he can try to overtake MJ as the GOAT (I wouldn't buy it but it would be a big step in that direction to win in MJ's town).
4. Resign DeMar 2/$80.
5. Resign Pat 3/$55.
6. Resign Drummond 2/$20.

Starters are: Coby, Ayo, LeBron, DeMar, Vuc. Bench scoring in Zach, PWDrummond are reserve bigs, glue/D guys in AC, Bronny. Ability to mix & match lineups to go big w Vuc/PW/LeBron/DeMar and a G. Or smaller with PW at C. Go for more O with Zach in for Ayo or go D with AC/PW in for Coby/Vuc. Bronny takes the Terry role.

Title contender with LeBron as the clutch guy, filling the Lonzo void at an uber level, keeping Zach in line. The depth lets you manage LeBron's minutes. Bulls relevant again! AK IS A GENIUS PLAYING THE LONG GAME!!!!

[ChiTownHero1992]

My perfect offseason:

1. Trade Lavine for any future value possible (1st rounder+)
2. Either: Resign Williams on a Coby deal or look to S&T him to a team looking to overpay (Pistons i'm looking at you!)
3. Do anything possible to get Vuc off this team...send him to Croatia for a bag of laundry for all I care
4. DDR again either sign him to a team friendly 2 year deal or look to S&T him elsewhere
5. Lonzo - if he is not ready (And by ready I mean looking like an NBA player) by Sept. it is time to discuss a buyout
6. Resign Drummond if possible for a friendly 2 year deal but i bet he gets good offers this year finally
7. Draft for the future! It is time to enter rebuild mode, ASAP and look to actually make a complete roster!
8. Look to "do right" by Caruso and send to a place he can actually compete and win for any value

Move next year with Coby, Ayo, Williams, and this 11th pick as main pieces and the rest start figuring it out as you go. DDR and Drummond act as your veteran presences until you can get an offer for them.

[Jcool0]

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[drosestruts]

I call this the "where there's smoke there's fire" offseason plan.

Trade 1:

Chicago in: Jonathan Kuminga and Andrew Wiggins

Golden State in: Alex Caruso, Nikola Vucevic, and Torrey Craig

At the deadline there were reports that the Bulls liked Kuminga and that the Warriors liked Caruso but no deal materialized. Now they each get their guys while exchanging unwanted contracts. Warriors also add Craig for need forward depth.


Trade 2:

Chicago in: #5

Detroit in: Zach LaVine, #11

Another previously rumored deal gets completed with the addition of a pick swap in this year's draft. Chicago gets well below the tax. Draft BPA, don't worry about fit.


DeMar DeRozan:

I think, right or wrong, the Bulls will give DeMar the opportunity to decide if he wants to stay or not. With the above moves I'd guess he asks to go to LA, and that the Bulls accommodate him even if the return is underwhelming

Bulls in: Gabe Vincent, Jarred Vanderbilt, Jalen Hood-Schifino, and 2 2025 2nd's

Lakers in: DeMar DeRozan

Draft:

For the sake of this fantasy land let's say Nikola Topic falls - you know AK would be all over him

Free Agency:

Re-sign Patrick Williams to 3 year deal with ~$14m AAV
Release/relinquish cap holds on Bitim, Green, and Drummond

By my count at this point we'd have $14mm in cap space left and a need for some centers.

Throw all the remaining cap space at Hartenstein on a contract with raises every year - it will be more than he'd make on the MLE and it will be interesting to see if the Knicks match as they'll be starting the offseason ~$20mm below the tax and also have to re-sign Anunoby. Could in theory stretch Ball and make this offer even more competitive

Then use a portion, probably not all, of the MLE to sign James Wiseman and take a flier on if things can click for him in the near future

2024-25 Bulls:

White/Ball/Vincent/Carter
Topic/Dosunmu/JHS/
Williams/Wiggins/Terry
Kuminga/Phillips/Vanderbilt
Hartenstein/Wiseman

Bulls look something like this. Not a single starter over 26. Bulls rapidly become one of the youngest teams in the NBA